Semogue 2000 or 1250 (1305, but with blonde bristle and unpainted handle)

[jrowen]

Hi. This is my 2nd thread @ B&B, so please be kind.

Looking for some advice on my next acquisition.

From the advice checklist:
1) I currently have a Semogue 730 and VDH boar
2) I have used creams exclusively up to this point, but am wanting to explore soaps. I have lathered in a bowl up to this point (just got my G5 scuttle today, WOOT!), but have a coarse beard and would like to maybe try face lathering with a boar brush, or loading/lathering right on top of a soap puck
3) I love me some Semogue 730, but... I would like something much scrubbier, something to use in contrast with the 730 for hard milled soaps. The first two soaps I'm targeting are D.R. Harris Arlington and Provence Sante Green Tea. I don't really use the VDH boar on a regular basis. It's broken in, and feels nice on my face, but looking for a little more quality. This brush will likely find it its way out of my rotation, replaced with the brush we're discussing.
4) I've kinda already narrowed the field down to the Semogue 2000 and 1250 in terms of aesthetics. Blonde bristles with wooden handle. I'd settle for 1305 or 1800, though, if I had a hard time procuring a 1250. Based on my 730, I really like the Semogue quality.
5) Budget is < $30, I think both of these fit the mold
6) Size... this is where I see the only real difference between these two... 2000 is a 25mm/60mm brush, 1250/1305/1800 is a 22mm/55mm brush... I understand that the lower loft of the 1250 will likely make it stiffer than the 2000, while the larger knot of the 2000 will likely help it to hold more water/lather than the 1250. I usually do a 2-3 pass shave.
7) Obviously, I'm already interested in the Semogue 2000 and 1250/1305
8) This will be my last brush, and SBAD hasn't really gotten ahold of me.

NOT!!!​

I have AD real bad right now...



So, what do you guys think? 2000, or 1250/1305/1800?

Thanks, in advance, for your input!

- Jason

 

[Mink]

Instead of help, I'm going to muddy the waters for ya.

First, you can get the Omega boar brushes stateside for a little less and you won't have the long wait for shipping.

The all white boars will be stiffer because the cleaning, dying, and bleaching of the boar hair for the high end brushes softens the brush ahead of time. So the 2000 will be comparatively quite stiff even with the high loft. The 1250 will be stiffer than the 1305 or 1800.

Because the all white boars haven't been treated, they will take longer to get past the odors, but cost less. They will also take longer to break in.

I have a Semogue 620 that I'm waiting for delivery. Last Friday I ordered an Omega 10066 and 31064 (from WCS) and they were delivered on Tuesday - same day I ordered the Semogue. I've had 3 days to do practice/break-in lather batches with the Omegas (about 12 each). The 31064 is ready for use. I think it could be used for face lathering because it's quite soft. The 10066 is small, but is quite stiff and builds lather as well as any brush I have, including the badgers - and it still smells....and was only $9.

The wooden handles - whether painted or stained, and varnished, need to be treated with some TLC. If you're banging on the sides of a bowl when making lather, consider getting plastic handled brushes. Don't soak the wood when you soak the bristles.

Lastly, boar brushes are quite affordable compared to badgers. My recommendation is that if you want the aesthetics of the Semogues, get the nicest one you can afford. You can buy 2 Omegas here to get a better feel for loft, stiffness, and feel for the same price. I'm also assuming the BAD won't go away, but you're in good company.

 

[vitaman]

1305!!

 

[du212]

The Semogue problem is their handles when they are made of painted wood, in few months they become broken, I have a 2000 and a 1520 and both have the handles damaged.

 

[gollum83]

The Semogue problem is their handles when they are made of painted wood, in few months they become broken, I have a 2000 and a 1520 and both have the handles damaged.

They do offer acrylic handles on some of their brushes if that's a major concern.

 

[jrowen]

Thanks, for the responses, everyone! I've made comment to all the replies so far. It got kinda long, so I highlighted my main questions for ease & quickness of reply.

First, you can get the Omega boar brushes stateside for a little less and you won't have the long wait for shipping.

I'm not really interested in the look of the Omega Pros, but I did look into the 49 and 31064. The 48/49 I think will just plain be too large for me. I was actually considering the 31064, but I really think I'd like to try another Semogue. I do thank you for bringing these up the Omega's as viable options, though. I love my 730, the 2009 LE has me drooling, though I'm new enough that I don't think I could have properly loved it yet if I were lucky enough to have gotten one, and I really like the look of the Semogue boar line (obviously I have preferences as stated above, but they're all cool looking).

The all white boars will be stiffer because the cleaning, dying, and bleaching of the boar hair for the high end brushes softens the brush ahead of time. So the 2000 will be comparatively quite stiff even with the high loft. The 1250 will be stiffer than the 1305 or 1800.

Because the all white boars haven't been treated, they will take longer to get past the odors, but cost less. They will also take longer to break in.

Really great information on what the sketching process does! This must be why the 2000/1250 are labeled as "natural" bristle and the 1305/1800 are labeled as "superior" bristle. Superior bristles must be "softer" out of the box.

I assume the 1305/1800 are the same knot given they have the same 22mm/55mm and are both "treated" and sketched as described above, and the 1250 behaves as a different knot given that it is not treated or sketched. So, we're really talking about 3 different knots here (2000, 1250, 1305/1800)?.

What about the density of the 2000 vs. the 1250 vs. the 1305/1800? I was reading in the 2009 LE thread that density isn't alway good and can lead to bad flow though (holding onto, and not releasing the lather).... this would be a con for the 2000, then? as I believe the 2000 is reported to be very dense and have a large bloom. Also, I read a post from (I believe) the same SMF Zach over at the TSD forum regarding the 2000, and he indicated that the 2000 may have some clipped bristles. Would anyone care to comment on the bristle quality and/or manufacture of the different knots (clipped or not)? For those that own any or all of the Semogues in question, which is best as a daily driver?

I don't really mind a long break-in period for a tool that I will potentially use for a long time, especially when "long" is 6 months or more for break-in vs. the lifetime of the brush, 10 years plus. That's 5% pain.... 95% gain! All good things come at a price... it almost always makes you appreciate them more. But I do thank you for bringing this point up for consideration.

The wooden handles - whether painted or stained, and varnished, need to be treated with some TLC. If you're banging on the sides of a bowl when making lather, consider getting plastic handled brushes. Don't soak the wood when you soak the bristles.

The Semogue problem is their handles when they are made of painted wood, in few months they become broken, I have a 2000 and a 1520 and both have the handles damaged.

They do offer acrylic handles on some of their brushes if that's a major concern.

Ok.... obviously a lot of people are hung up on the wooden handle. I'll admit, I like the acrylic on the 730 that I have. Its more modern looking, is durable, and is hefty - like a good tool should feel. ... but they don't make one with an acrylic handle except the 620, and I think 22mm/50mm is maybe a little small considering I was originally thinking 25mm/60mm with blonde bristle (before I knew what that potentially does to the feel). Personally, the wood handle didn't give me pause even though I had read other posts regarding general dislike of wooden handles due to "care" issues. Most of these are ~$20 brushes... if it gets ruined... I'm not too concerned about it.

What type of TLC? Do the wood handles require extra maintenance (mineral oil rub-downs or something?), or just don't soak them or drop them? Basically.... just be careful with it? Are we talking about aesthetic issues being the result of "poor maintenance", or functional issues (the handle grows mold and/or disintegrates into dust in my hand and/or all the bristles fall out one-by-one exactly at the rate of 1/day for every minute the handle spends in water)?

1305!!

One vote for the 1305!... or the 1800!!
-------------------------------

Thanks again to everyone who responded intially! Get your all your boar friends (Boar & Blade? Keepers of the porcine knowledge? This is your bailiwick! am I right? du, gollum, way to represent!) to come give me their 2 cents! I'd almost like to make this a poll for "your 1st Semogue boar"... if I could figure out how... cause its my 2nd thread...

... do I get extra credit for using "bailiwick" in a sentence?

 

[VR6ofpain]

The Semogue problem is their handles when they are made of painted wood, in few months they become broken, I have a 2000 and a 1520 and both have the handles damaged.

I have had my 1305 for months with no issues. Great brush.

I can't say the same for a Tweezerman I owned a long time ago. Serious problems with the wood getting damaged by water.

 

[gollum83]

What about the density of the 2000 vs. the 1250 vs. the 1305/1800? I was reading in the 2009 LE thread that density isn't alway good and can lead to bad flow though (holding onto, and not releasing the lather).... this would be a con for the 2000, then? as I believe the 2000 is reported to be very dense and have a large bloom. Also, I read a post from (I believe) the same SMF Zach over at the TSD forum regarding the 2000, and he indicated that the 2000 may have some clipped bristles. Would anyone care to comment on the bristle quality and/or manufacture of the different knots (clipped or not)? For those that own any or all of the Semogues in question, which is best as a daily driver?

Yeah, the 2000 is a little on the dense side, but it probably isn't quite as dense as my 2009 LE. So is flow through a problem? Maybe a little, but it's nothing that has really caught my attention. As for clipped bristles, I honestly have not notice any in mine. All things considered, I love mine and I think it's an excellent brush.

I don't really mind a long break-in period for a tool that I will potentially use for a long time, especially when "long" is 6 months or more for break-in vs. the lifetime of the brush, 10 years plus. That's 5&#37; pain.... 95% gain! All good things come at a price... it almost always makes you appreciate them more. But I do thank you for bringing this point up for consideration.

Good, because if you go ahead and get a Semogue 2000, then it'll take you a good long while to break in. It took about a good month of regular use to really start to break it in and soften the tips. Personally, I think this is mainly because of the density of the 2000 and the thickness of the bristle used rather than how it was treated because I have had other boars with blond bristles that have broken in as little as a week.

Ok.... obviously a lot of people are hung up on the wooden handle. I'll admit, I like the acrylic on the 730 that I have. Its more modern looking, is durable, and is hefty - like a good tool should feel. ... but they don't make one with an acrylic handle except the 620, and I think 22mm/50mm is maybe a little small considering I was originally thinking 25mm/60mm with blonde bristle (before I knew what that potentially does to the feel). Personally, the wood handle didn't give me pause even though I had read other posts regarding general dislike of wooden handles due to "care" issues. Most of these are ~$20 brushes... if it gets ruined... I'm not too concerned about it.

I kind of got that from your previous post. It was more for the benefit of others. Besides, from what I have heard Semogue has changed how it seals and paints their brushes.

What type of TLC? Do the wood handles require extra maintenance (mineral oil rub-downs or something?), or just don't soak them or drop them? Basically.... just be careful with it? Are we talking about aesthetic issues being the result of "poor maintenance", or functional issues (the handle grows mold and/or disintegrates into dust in my hand and/or all the bristles fall out one-by-one exactly at the rate of 1/day for every minute the handle spends in water)?

No, just use common sense. Don't drop them. Don't abuse them.

 

[Wil Dorenbos]

... do I get extra credit for using "bailiwick" in a sentence?

Yes you do

 

[Rivguy]

I recently purchased a Semogue 2000 and have used it three times after an accelerated break in process that works very well. I am pleased with brush and I think that it will definitely find a place in my rotation. I purchased mine from The Vintage Scent Co. and it arrived in about eight days.

I have some badgers that I am fond of as well, but this is the largest brush in my arsenal and has quit a different feel but that is not a negative...just different.

It has been my practice to break in a brush for several days to a week depending on the wet dog odor before I put it in use. I use a borax soak and then a swirl in a fragrant soap and let it be for a few minutes and then rinse. I posted the process in this forum yesterday but that is basically the drill.

Enjoy your new brush...which ever one you select.

 

[nav]

I got my Semogue 1520 and have been using it daily for 5 days. It is a fantastic brush and it nearly broken in already. Leon @ VintageScent said the 1520 has the higher quality bristle which is probably why it is already nearly broken in.

Ive been loving it. Its a 50mm knot but it holds enough lather for my full 3 passes (I squeeze a large amount of lather on the final pass, its just beautiful!). Definitely worth a try, if worried about the handle, get the 620 which has the same bristles as the 1520.

 

[jrowen]

Thanks for all the input, guys! I really wanted to try to the 2000, but I think I'm gonna go with the 1305 even though I wanted blonde bristle & wood handle. I see that John @ Shaving Essentials has the 1305 in stock right now, plus I wanted to calm a few other AD's with him. Also, from what I'm reading, it sounds like the 1305 might be a better place to start, just because of all the density/break-in talk. Then, if I think I want something denser than the 1305, I can try to acquire the 2000. (...or maybe I'll buy one of each )

Thanks again for the input!