Section 6 - 1, How to lap/flatten your hone.

[TENroaches]

Yikes - looks like I was wrong.... I didn't know Norton made diamond hones!

Ok - to lap a stone - you need a stone that is HARDER than the one you're lapping/flattening - so in this example - I am using a DMT diamond stone (diamond is the hardest material) to lap a Norton Synthetic waterstone. By lapping the norton with the DMT, it creates a flat surface on the norton, which allows me to use it on the straight razor in the most efficacious manner possible.

Now - that specific DMT used in this example is a D8C and is 325 grit. 325 grit on a straight razor is WAY too coarse, unless you're trying to take out a nick, setup a bevel, or do some serious work on an ebay special. You CAN hone a razor on the DMT D8C plate - but again, it's way too coarse to use as a finishing stone, so you'd want to follow up with finer grit DMT stones, such as a DMT fine, Extra fine, then Extra Extra Fine (8000 grit) stone.

In the example above I lapped the norton with the DMT plate - and in later examples use the Norton to hone a razor using the 4000 grit side to set the bevel, and the 8,000 grit side to polish the edge - as the razor was in good shape.

Hope this helps...

I understand completely, if the following is true: You like the DMTs, and are going to sell your Norton, and you'd be using the finer grits of DMT stones instead of a Norton waterstone.

Did I get it right now?

 

[joel]

I understand completely, if the following is true: You like the DMTs, and are going to sell your Norton, and you'd be using the finer grits of DMT stones instead of a Norton waterstone.

Did I get it right now?

Yep

Norton's aren't bad - but you're paying $76 for a Norton 4/8K you have to flatten a lot, wears quickly (however it'll last you a REALLY long time), must be soaked for 10-15 minutes prior to use, and in my opinion are a little tricky to use - where as for $63 you can get an extra extra fine DMT (8,000 grit 3 micron) plate which will cut almost as fast as the 4K side of the norton and will put a finer edge on than the 8K side of a norton. If you want to add on to the DMT set, it's pretty inexpensive, as the expensive plate you need (the extra extra fine) you'd already have, so to add on the other stones, you're only looking at about $35 a pop for the big 8X3's and $18 for the 6X2's.... pretty inexpensive in my opinion. If you're working with a new, or like new razor, or a pre-honed razor a DMT extra extra fine, and a Chinese 12K would get (and keep) you as comfortable and arguably finer an edge for $83 as a Norton 4/8K and a Belgian Coticule would get you for $150+.

Norton's have never done much for me... and I always end up selling them (if I sell this one, it'll be the 3rd time I've bought one, then sold it) and i'm always stunned how much others like them. DMT's, Spyderco's, and pastes have always gotten me (in my opinion) much superior results in less time, with less effort and no tricky quirks.

 

[ouch]

I never knew Norton made diamond plates, either, but they look suspiciously like the DMT's. King and Naniwa/Ebi make more traditionally styled waterstones employing a diamond cutting medium, but they are expensive at close to $200. I wouldn't think that any of the DMT plates are suitable for honing razors, with the exception of the 8K. They will, however, make short work of a dull knife.

 

[TENroaches]

Yep

Norton's aren't bad - but you're paying $76 for a Norton 4/8K you have to flatten a lot, wears quickly (however it'll last you a REALLY long time), must be soaked for 10-15 minutes prior to use, and in my opinion are a little tricky to use - where as for $63 you can get an extra extra fine DMT (8,000 grit 3 micron) plate which will cut almost as fast as the 4K side of the norton and will put a finer edge on than the 8K side of a norton. If you want to add on to the DMT set, it's pretty inexpensive, as the expensive plate you need (the extra extra fine) you'd already have, so to add on the other stones, you're only looking at about $35 a pop for the big 8X3's and $18 for the 6X2's.... pretty inexpensive in my opinion. If you're working with a new, or like new razor, or a pre-honed razor a DMT extra extra fine, and a Chinese 12K would get (and keep) you as comfortable and arguably finer an edge for $83 as a Norton 4/8K and a Belgian Coticule would get you for $150+.

Norton's have never done much for me... and I always end up selling them (if I sell this one, it'll be the 3rd time I've bought one, then sold it) and i'm always stunned how much others like them. DMT's, Spyderco's, and pastes have always gotten me (in my opinion) much superior results in less time, with less effort and no tricky quirks.

Wow. I should get a job at school this semester so I can get into this.

Thanks for all the help to make this all clear to me. I almost regret buying 6 fountain pens and 6 inks last month, because I'd have more money for this fun stuff!

 

[JGS]

Please...

Set this thread as a "Sticky"...?

 

[joel]

Please...

Set this thread as a "Sticky"...?

Hey bud - the whole guide HERE is a sticky in the general straight razor forum with links to each topic, as well as each topic having a link to the main table of contents, as well as the next section in the guide.

Hope this helps!

 

[gglockner]

knivesplus has the DMT D8C on sale right now for $40.97

I am thinking hard about getting one.

Glen

Here I go quoting myself again. I should have read what "ouch"
wrote before posting. Just ordered one from Craftsman Studio.

Glen

 

[imMark]

I'm looking for a Canadian reseller who carries the DMT coarse/fine/extra fine 3-plate kit (with adjustable base) as well as the 3-micron e-extra fine plate.

Any Canadians out there who know where to purchase these items (preferrably near Toronto)?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Mr Jeff]

I've been going through the same problems. Located in Toronto and not having much luck finding online sellers willing to ship north of the border. I just ordered a D8C and D8EE from a guy on ebay. His prices seem pretty comparable to craftmanstudio. Shipping for the two stones was $27. He uses USPS, not UPS so no crazy brokerage fees. Hopefully I'll get them soon.

Http://stores.ebay.com/myknifesourcecom_W0QQsspagenameZMEQ3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm

Now I just need to find somewhere to get a Spyderco Ultrafine or a Chinese 12k

 

[PHormality]

Is there a certain grit sandpaper you'd recommend if I don't want to go out and buy a diamond hone right away? Before I bought my initial setup I read everywhere all you needed was the Norton 4k/8k, so that's what I got. Had I saw this sooner I probably would've just went with the DMT. But since it's here and I tried to use it once already I'd like to try to make it work (at least in the short term).

Is it really going to kill the edge if I don't flatten the new stone first?

 

[joel]

Is there a certain grit sandpaper you'd recommend if I don't want to go out and buy a diamond hone right away? Before I bought my initial setup I read everywhere all you needed was the Norton 4k/8k, so that's what I got. Had I saw this sooner I probably would've just went with the DMT. But since it's here and I tried to use it once already I'd like to try to make it work (at least in the short term).

Is it really going to kill the edge if I don't flatten the new stone first?

Always flatten a hone first. Go to the hardware store and pick up a plate of marble or granite, and some wet/dry sandpaper. Norton actually makes some good wet-dry sandpaper, and I've had great results using 400 grit, then finishing on 800 grit. Make sure to lap the 8K side of the hone first, as if you cross contaminate the 4K side with leftover residue from the 8K side, it's less of an issue.

Hope this helps!

 

[PHormality]

Always flatten a hone first. Go to the hardware store and pick up a plate of marble or granite, and some wet/dry sandpaper. Norton actually makes some good wet-dry sandpaper, and I've had great results using 400 grit, then finishing on 800 grit. Make sure to lap the 8K side of the hone first, as if you cross contaminate the 4K side with leftover residue from the 8K side, it's less of an issue.

Hope this helps!

Thanks. I'll probably give that a shot this weekend

 

[AmendmentX]

I have just recently begun shaving with my grandfathers razor, which i can tell really needs to be honed. If I am reading this correctly, an EEfine Dia-Sharp® Continuous Diamond plate, should be able to hone the razor, without soaking, or flattening? What benefits would a Norton 4K8K block have over this?

 

[joel]

I have just recently begun shaving with my grandfathers razor, which i can tell really needs to be honed. If I am reading this correctly, an EEfine Dia-Sharp® Continuous Diamond plate, should be able to hone the razor, without soaking, or flattening? What benefits would a Norton 4K8K block have over this?

A norton would provide 2 different grits.

 

[Doc4]

I'm looking for a Canadian reseller who carries the DMT coarse/fine/extra fine 3-plate kit (with adjustable base) as well as the 3-micron e-extra fine plate.

Any Canadians out there who know where to purchase these items (preferrably near Toronto)?

Thanks,
Mark

At least an internet source from the US, and they ship to Canada, and even use the Borderfree programme so you don't pay anything at delivery.

http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4027

 

[swink]

I recently bought a Henckels 3k/8k. I picked up some 320 wet/dry sand paper (one piece for each side of hone), drew the marks in pencil, wet the stone and started to lap on the glass top of our stove. However, the pencil immediately washed off because of the water(?). Now I lap without water. Otherwise the process goes as described in this how-to. But is it bad to lap on sandpaper without water? It seems to work fine.

 

[David P]

I need a:
DMT 325 ($36)to lap any "regular" stones
DMT 1200 ($36)to establish a bevel
Norton 4K/8K ($65) for regular sharpening
more that I haven't really looked into yet as Ill probably start with a paddle strop....

Other than the intermediate 4000, why would I not just get the DMT EE 8K ($63) and not have to deal with the coarse laping stone?

How does the diamond 8K compare to the Norton 8k? Would I be sitting there for ever and a day if I skip from 1200 to 8000 without a 4000 in the middle?

 

[Dharion]

I've got my wet sandpaper from a do-it-yourself store nearby and lapped all of my hones (see wiki) on an unused 26"x14" glass swing door. Thanks so much!

 

[twelvepbrs]

DMT Diamond plates have a flatness guarantee of +/- 0.001" - which is MORE than flat enough for what we're doing

Personally - I am a BIG fan of DMT's over Norton's and will probably be selling my norton soon. DMT plates NEVER need to be lapped/flattened, are easier to use, cut faster, etc etc. I get much better results with them as well.

AFAIK, DMT's have grits of 325 (coarse), 600 (fine), 1200 (extra fine) and 8000 (extra extra fine). Do you need something in between the 1200 and 8000 grit?

 

[Mikus11]

Has anyone used the readily available Norton Truing Stone? Its is carbide-based stone with slots cut in it and I can't see why it wouldn't work for flattening their own stones.

I'm in Canada and Lee Valley carries these and the Norton 4k/8k, $0 shipping, easy shopping locally.