Well, actually not major rusting. Blade oranging if I can coin a term, is a better description. When honing a blade from bread knife/bevel setting through polishing, sometimes I see the blade starting to rust from the hour+ exposure time to water. I usually clean it off with some car wax when finished, but I the idea of degrading one part of the razor while improving another bothers me somehow. And you know what they say about rust, it never sleeps. Anybody else deal with this? Is it a cause for concern?
Rusting while honing. Cause for concern?
- Thread starter Tolduonce
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That's scary. Oxidization is something that happens continualy, but usually not on a scale that effects us in that period of time.
Is there something unusual about your water source?
I once read somewhere that adding .... baking soda (???!).... maybe that was it.... to your water while honing can mitigate that. The chemistry of it escapes me at the moment, but something about it rings a faint bell. There may be something to it.
Is there something unusual about your water source?
I once read somewhere that adding .... baking soda (???!).... maybe that was it.... to your water while honing can mitigate that. The chemistry of it escapes me at the moment, but something about it rings a faint bell. There may be something to it.
- Thread starter
- #3
Just regular city water from the tap. I don't think it's unusually hard or anything. If memory serves me correct, I believe I read somewhere that distilled water promotes rusting even more than tap water. Something about purer water being "hungry", whatever that is. Anyway, I hone on a platform over the sink with a drip, drip, drip of water falling on the stone. Maybe that's the problem. I'll wait to hear from others. Must repeat that this issue only happens during prolonged honing sessions. In the meantime, I'll Google around for the baking soda remedy.
It buffers the pH at just above ~neutral. You need very low pH to solubilize Fe from the metal (even well below tap water), and then the Fe ions must oxidize and precitate as Fe2O3 or some other Fe-oxide phase. Not sure of the details, but it's in there somewhere. I've also heard of using baking soda added in sufficient amounts as a mild abrasive, but that don't make sense to me. I give up....
Distilled water has fewer cations/anions floating around in solution (less saturated) and therefore it can act more aggressively in solubilizing certain materials.
Sorry. I will go back to my cave now....
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Thanks Woodash,
I've tried a little google-fu, and the only references I can find relate to the Ph. of the water being adjusted upwards (basic) by the baking soda. Lots of references to baking soda and an electrolytic reaction with anodes and diodes to chemicaly remove rust. Lots of references to a baking soda paste for abrasive cleaning.
I was sure I read a thread on honing with baking soda in the water, which may increase its hardness if it's picking up dissolved calcium(?!) and cause it to be less reactive as Woodash and Tolduonce points out in regards to distilled water.
I've tried a little google-fu, and the only references I can find relate to the Ph. of the water being adjusted upwards (basic) by the baking soda. Lots of references to baking soda and an electrolytic reaction with anodes and diodes to chemicaly remove rust. Lots of references to a baking soda paste for abrasive cleaning.
I was sure I read a thread on honing with baking soda in the water, which may increase its hardness if it's picking up dissolved calcium(?!) and cause it to be less reactive as Woodash and Tolduonce points out in regards to distilled water.
Try coating the blade with vaseline before you start to hone. When you hone, you shouldn't be using your hand to press down on the blade. So, the greasiness of the blade shouldn't matter.
Regrease the blade a time or two during your honing, and I suspect your problem will disappear.
(I use my hand sometimes, placed on the blade. But, it isn't pressing down. It is placed there simply for additional tactile feedback as to what the blade and hone are doing. And, even then, the greasiness would be fine.)
Regrease the blade a time or two during your honing, and I suspect your problem will disappear.
(I use my hand sometimes, placed on the blade. But, it isn't pressing down. It is placed there simply for additional tactile feedback as to what the blade and hone are doing. And, even then, the greasiness would be fine.)
- Thread starter
- #7
Just like you, I'm a two handed honer and sometimes I use a little pressure when setting a bevel. The thought of using an oil based product has crossed my mind, but was always worried about oiling up the hone. I've done that before accidentally, and it was a pain to correct it.
- Thread starter
- #8
It buffers the pH at just above ~neutral. You need very low pH to solubilize Fe from the metal (even well below tap water), and then the Fe ions must oxidize and precitate as Fe2O3 or some other Fe-oxide phase. Not sure of the details, but it's in there somewhere. I've also heard of using baking soda added in sufficient amounts as a mild abrasive, but that don't make sense to me. I give up....
Distilled water has fewer cations/anions floating around in solution (less saturated) and therefore it can act more aggressively in solubilizing certain materials.
Sorry. I will go back to my cave now....
Never did do well in chem. class, but what I'm thinking I'm reading is that metals rust more readily in low pH environments than in high. Is that correct? if this is the case, I'll try soaking the stones in sodawater (not soda water) and using the same for rewetting. That is unless someone out there sees a problem with this. Anybody?
The soluble form of Fe (e.g., Fe2+) is stable at pH<3, depending on redox conditions. In order for you to have rust, you need to solubilize some Fe from the metal (low pH and/or reducing/low oxygen conditions...water), and then that Fe has to oxidize (to Fe3+, commonly on drying) to form the iron minerals and rust colors that we're familiar with. It's amazing to me that you can actually see this occurring at all withing the time frame of honing.
In a case of serendipity, I open up my new Lee Valley catalog today and find out they are now selling a product called HoneRite Gold, which prevents the oxygen in water from bonding with iron
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Finishes/Shield_Technology/shield_technology.html
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Finishes/Shield_Technology/shield_technology.html
