Revisiting the barber hone.

[Legion]

Just for fun I decided to touch up my razor with an old barber hone today.

The last time I experimented with them I was a pretty inexperienced honer, and my results were pretty poor. In hindsight I think the main problem was I was used to big hones like the Norton, and struggled with the size of a BH.

Today, not such a bad shave. I mean, I'm not planning on going out and selling all my natural hones any time soon, but it worked. I could see if you were living in the olden days and you just wanted something for maintenance, a barber hone would be preferable to buying spare razors, or paying the barber to touch them up for you every couple of weeks.

If you haven't tried one, give one a go. They are usually pretty inexpensive to pick up.

 

[lightfoot]

The hardest thing about barber hones is finding one that hasn’t deteriorated beyond it’s useful purpose. I do think Shapton has a series of smaller glass stones that are roughly the size of many barber hones although I believe they’re on the narrow side. Might be worth a try for those that want to try out the concept with a new stone.

 

[stone and strop]

Just for fun I decided to touch up my razor with an old barber hone today.

The last time I experimented with them I was a pretty inexperienced honer, and my results were pretty poor. In hindsight I think the main problem was I was used to big hones like the Norton, and struggled with the size of a BH.

Today, not such a bad shave. I mean, I'm not planning on going out and selling all my natural hones any time soon, but it worked. I could see if you were living in the olden days and you just wanted something for maintenance, a barber hone would be preferable to buying spare razors, or paying the barber to touch them up for you every couple of weeks.

If you haven't tried one, give one a go. They are usually pretty inexpensive to pick up.

Some Bhones produce very nice shaving edges, so nice that many would not know the difference.
Not all produce this kind of edge though.
They can work great and are a lot of fun.

 

[dabrock]

Is there a standard for the type of stone and grit for these hones?

 

[Legion]

Is there a standard for the type of stone and grit for these hones?

Not really. Even two of the same type of hone might work differently, depending on its condition.

Most of the ones I’ve played with seem like they want to be 8kish

 

[Gamma]

I think most of the charm with using a real barber hone is that you're NOT bringing a modern synthetic/binder into the picture. I mean, that's the whole point for me, to keep it vintage.
I could just cut down a 12k Super Stone to 5x2"; sure, it'll be 'superior' but that's not where I'm headed when I pick up a Swaty or whathaveyou.

I find it difficult to assign grit value since the binders are, for the most part, 'fixed' in these old slabs but in general I'd say I have encountered way more 4k-6k variants, than 8k/8k+ types. Even then, calling even a Frictionite 00 8k+ isn't quite right IMO.
Whatever, it's splitting hairs and not important. Either the stone works or it doesn't.

I have found that most b-hones don't measure up, some are useable, a few seem to be better than ok. It's always a lottery, condition is tantamount to all concerns. Looking over the 'recipes' from the American Hone Co., I am also certain that there were wild swings in quality levels within most product lines/brands/series/etc. Compound that with deterioration from age and the lottery concept becomes clear. Still fun to mess with them though.

I kept one frameback going on a refurbed "Tiger" hone for a long while. It was not the worlds most enjoyable experiment but it kept the edge shaving. I won't be re-creating that 'test' though. lol.

 

[Rusty Blade]

My understanding is that barber hones are in the range of 4k to 6k...somewhere between my Naniwa 3k and 8k. Hardly a finishing stone and yet the barber hone was a staple for many barbers to keep their edges fresh. They used a bit of lather to "grease" the stone. I haven't tried one myself. I do have a few barber hones...maybe I should try one with an old beater razor.

 

[stone and strop]

Many of them are just not very good.
Which ones do you have?
I never use lather either, only water - cool/cold water.

 

[Rusty Blade]

Many of them are just not very good.
Which ones do you have?
I never use lather either, only water - cool/cold water.

I will have to dig them out of my box of stuff. I know one is an Aloxite. Not sure about the others. I will check.

 

[Bevel]

Whatever, it's splitting hairs and not important.

But with razors splitting hairs is the only important thing (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[*stefan*]

I think the barber hones is cool.
The size just feels right in hand.

Easy to store or bring with you if you travel.
Not that fragile and sensitive compared to some modern hone/stone.

I someone would make and sell a modern that was not sensitive to
long time water exposure and not fragile to bumps I think it could be popular.

Do I use one regularly myself?
No, like honing and having too many razors to swap between.
No need to do a refresh when shaving, just swap razor instead.

But if traveling I would bring one.

 

[Legion]

I think the barber hones is cool.
The size just feels right in hand.

Easy to store or bring with you if you travel.
Not that fragile and sensitive compared to some modern hone/stone.

I someone would make and sell a modern that was not sensitive to
long time water exposure and not fragile to bumps I think it could be popular.

Do I use one regularly myself?
No, like honing and having too many razors to swap between.
No need to do a refresh when shaving, just swap razor instead.

But if traveling I would bring one.

I agree. They have a place.

Personally I have the luxury of choice, so I choose barber hone sized natural stones for refreshing my razors. But synthetic barber hones can work, and did for many many people.

They are worth keeping in mind. Worth experimenting with.

 

[Legion]

You have to put it into context. Back in the day an average dude had one razor, a strop, and maybe a barber hone. He might not have got the comfortable daily shave we expect today, but he showed up for church shaved on Sunday, so job done.

Choice B was a full beard, or C the barber, who probably wasn’t much sharper.

 

[*stefan*]

I think that barbers often also had a barber hone.

I recently spoke with a woman whose grandfather used to work as a barber up to the 60s.
It did happen she was in the barber salone when being a girl and she has some memories.

She said that some qustomer had their dedicated straight razor. Don't know if the razor belonged to the barber or qustomer but I think the razor was stored in the barber salon

If a specific customer's straight razor was tugging during shave perhaps some stroke on the barber hone made the shave good enough to make the customer come back.

 

[jj_sharp]

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Adding lather to your synthetic barber hone could make a difference for you. I suggest trying and reporting back.

Myself, I pretty much can tell no difference in shave quality with any stone that I have. In my case, perhaps my strop equalizes the blades. Or, maybe all of my edges are equally dull...

 

[thp001]

My understanding is that barber hones are in the range of 4k to 6k...somewhere between my Naniwa 3k and 8k. Hardly a finishing stone and yet the barber hone was a staple for many barbers to keep their edges fresh. They used a bit of lather to "grease" the stone. I haven't tried one myself. I do have a few barber hones...maybe I should try one with an old beater razor.

The actual abrasive in barber hones is fairly coarse, Modine over at SRP tested a bunch of hones and had access to some of the original formulas. You see things like 2F/3F emery as the primary abrasive which is around 400-600 grit. The finest was 1200 grit emery. Science Of Sharp has SEM images of the surface of a Swaty, abrasive particles are in the range of 30 microns which is around 600 grit again. They cut so fine due to the conditioning of the surface, basically dressing the surface so that the abrasive barely protrudes above the binder and also blunting the abrasive grains so that they only make small, glancing collisions with the apex, forming wider, very shallow scratches.

 

[stone and strop]

The actual abrasive in barber hones is fairly coarse, Modine over at SRP tested a bunch of hones and had access to some of the original formulas. You see things like 2F/3F emery as the primary abrasive which is around 400-600 grit. The finest was 1200 grit emery. Science Of Sharp has SEM images of the surface of a Swaty, abrasive particles are in the range of 30 microns which is around 600 grit again. They cut so fine due to the conditioning of the surface, basically dressing the surface so that the abrasive barely protrudes above the binder and also blunting the abrasive grains so that they only make small, glancing collisions with the apex, forming wider, very shallow scratches.

I would not put too much faith in Modine's testing.
On RazorandStone when he tested a lot of Barber hones, he claimed near 30% of hones tested improved a 15k edge. That's ridiculous at best.
Some, like the Frictionite, have 1200F abrasive. In U.S. grading a Hard Translucent Ark has the same grit rating so take that for what its worth.
There are some damn fine barber hones, most are are not very good though.

 

[thp001]

I would not put too much faith in Modine's testing.
On RazorandStone when he tested a lot of Barber hones, he claimed near 30% of hones tested improved a 15k edge. That's ridiculous at best.
Some, like the Frictionite, have 1200F abrasive. In U.S. grading a Hard Translucent Ark has the same grit rating so take that for what its worth.
There are some damn fine barber hones, most are are not very good though.

It isn't so much the testing as that he had access to some documentation about the original abrasives used. All the abrasives are quite coarse, 1200 grit ANSI is about 3000 JIS or 1000 FEPA, barely into mid-range stone territory. Again if you head over to Science of Sharp there are SEM images that confirm this kind of grit range, even lower in fact. I know that I can see abrasive particles in some my barber hones with the naked eye and many others are clearly visible using a simple 10x watchmakers loupe. The barber hone is similar to the idea of shaving off the DMT 325, everything is so levelled out and dull that you get the effect of a finer grit.

I wouldn't even bother trying to assign an "effective" grit rating to barber hones, just observe what they do to the bevel and see how they shave. The design philosophy behind them is very interesting however.

 

[stone and strop]

It isn't so much the testing as that he had access to some documentation about the original abrasives used. All the abrasives are quite coarse, 1200 grit ANSI is about 3000 JIS or 1000 FEPA, barely into mid-range stone territory.

Again, Hard Arks are 1200 Ansi (considered) yet many finish on them.
Mike had access to the recipe's but they were Randy's as he had purchased them from AHC.
I've seen the Science of sharp photos but all Barber Hones are not the same.

The barber hone is similar to the idea of shaving off the DMT 325,

I find this very hard to compare in reality.
I have and have tested many myself.
If ever a DMT 325 could mimic an edge from a Panama hone or a Witte Hardware hone, no matter what you did to it, I would be truly impressed.
It won't happen.
Even a Frictionite can DRASTICALLY improve an 8k edge.
Buffing, polishing, whatever you do will not make it a high grit equivalent hone.
I'm a firm believer than finishing a surface to a fine state WILL improve almost any hones performance but there is only so much it can do.

 

[thp001]

Again, Hard Arks are 1200 Ansi (considered) yet many finish on them.
Mike had access to the recipe's but they were Randy's as he had purchased them from AHC.
I've seen the Science of sharp photos but all Barber Hones are not the same.



I find this very hard to compare in reality.
I have and have tested many myself.
If ever a DMT 325 could mimic an edge from a Panama hone or a Witte Hardware hone, no matter what you did to it, I would be truly impressed.
It won't happen.
Even a Frictionite can DRASTICALLY improve an 8k edge.
Buffing, polishing, whatever you do will not make it a high grit equivalent hone.
I'm a firm believer than finishing a surface to a fine state WILL improve almost any hones performance but there is only so much it can do.

You can't really apply grit to an Ark and if you could, it is incomparable to a synthetic hone since in a synthetic hone the manufacturers are actually going to purchase a known size of abrasive to make the hone with, so saying well, a hard ark is 1200 too doesn't really say anything about the abrasives in barber hones.


Not saying all barber hones are the same but you have to look at the historical context. The ability to reliably grade abrasives into fairly narrow and/or discreet micron and sub-micron particle distributions didn't exist when a lot of the barber hones were made, not saying it couldn't be done by some very advanced industries at the time, but not for an item that cost around a dollar or two in the early decades of the 20th century. Yes some barber hones improve 8K edges, but the abrasives in those hones are not likely to approach or exceed 8K and are relying more on the conditioning of the surface and mechanical properties of the binder, etc.

Never said that the DMT 325 would give an edge at the same level of a barber hone, only that it relies on similar principles to effect it's cutting action.