Reloaders: Your thoughts on automatic scale/powder dispenser/trickler

[PugslyCat]

I'm thinking about getting one of those plug in combination units that dispenses powder onto a scale and trickles it to the exact charge that you want. Are any other B&B reloaders using these? What are your thoughts?

Here's what's motivating me:

1. Rhythm - I normally weigh 1 in every 5-10 charges by setting the tare weight for the cartridge, charging it, and weighing again. That never seemed a big deal when I was using a single stage press and setting the charged cartridges in loading blocks as I finished them. It really seems to mess up my rhythm on the turret press, though.
2. Squib Prevention - Using the single stage press I would charge 50-100 rounds and set them in loading blocks. When I was done it was very easy to check out all of them at once and spot any that got a light charge. Looking at them one at a time in the press it's not a problem to see that it got powder, but it's tough to say if it's charged the same as the previous cartridge and the next one.
3. Cost - These automated beasts are expensive, but so is buying multiple powder dispensers. Since moving the powder dispensers between turrets is now the biggest part of a caliber change, so I was thinking of getting additional ones dedicated to the calibers I most commonly use. At about $50 a crack for a Lee Auto Disk plus riser that gets pricey fast.
4. Consistency - The Lee Perfect and Auto Disk powder measures seem to be giving me loads that are spot on or off by a tenth of a grain most of the time, but there are enough that are two tenths high or low that it bothers me. I don't really want to be weighing every load by hand.
5. Larger Loads - I'm getting ready to start loading rifle rounds, which will require the double disk kit in my Lee Auto Disk. In the past I've had a lot of leakage between the disks and other things that I didn't quite like about it, so I'm not really keen on going that route again if I can avoid it.

On the other hand, going to an automated dispenser is expensive, noisy, requires running another extension cord to the bench, and takes up bench top space. It's also not quite as portable as my current setup.

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[foghorn]

If you have the Auto Disk and not the Auto Disk Pro, get the update kit. It has the elastomer wiper that will take care of leaks in that area. Plus it includes the Micrometer Adj Charge bar - no more swapping disks, just dial in. The bar goes up to 1.6cc, good for many smaller rifle loads like .223 and such. Also, with winter here, static charging becomes more of an issue causing powder to stick to plastic and making throws inconsistent. I also like the charge bar because I can stick a dryer sheet rolled up and wedged under the hopper and eliminate that variable from occurring.

 

[PugslyCat]

A member following my "New to reloading on a budget" thread generaously PIF'd the basic Auto Disk a couple of years ago with the advice to get the upgrade kit. I did so, and frequently use the adjustable charge bar. That somehow feels like cheating but I got used to that.

These last few loading sessions I have tried to use the charge disks, but once again wound up with having to decide between charges that were .5 grain higher or lower than I really wanted.

My first rifle rounds to reload are going to be 270 WIN. I will check to see if the adjustable charge bar will drop a large enough charge, but I don't think it will.

 

[foghorn]

yeah, you're not gonna make 270 with the charge bar. Different primers might adjust for that .5gr - but when you're talking about 50gr total +/- .5gr... Are you that good? I don't mean that derogatorily, but unless you have eliminated a lot of other variables, or have a highly tuned rifle, I'm not sure it would matter that much. But YMMV and it depends on your intended use.

 

[nortac]

Although somewhat pricey, The RCBS auto unit is hard to beat and very popular with Highpower target shooters. Although I have two other digital scales, a balance beam scale and various volumetric powder dispensers, this is my go to for target grade rifle ammo. Get one and don't look back, you won't regret it.
Justifying cost, what are your goals for the ammo? Accuracy and precision, or just plinking ammo. Trying to hit small targets at long range, or is minute-of-deer good enough.
As far as rhythm and speed on a semi-progressive press, the auto scale will probably slow you down, but again, what are your goals?

 

[BB Sweed]

I cut my powder measurer charge in half, I put two dumps in each case, that seems to even out the high an low charges.

 

[tinashubby]

Paul- I have no input on the cool/expensive auto measure, but for my rifle rounds I weigh each one. I use the scoop and trickle method. A typical day at the range with the rifle (.243) for me is only about twenty rounds and I am looking for the best possible accuracy. With a bolt gun and a cartridge larger than .223 I think that 20 - 30 rounds give or take is probably a "normal" shooting session.

If I were shooting a semi-auto .223, I'm sure I'd shoot much more ammo per range trip and would use some sort of powder measure, either the type you have or if I fell into some money, something fancier.

Also- it takes me much longer to load 20 rounds of rifle compared to handgun, I am just much more particular with it, and since I shoot a low volume weighing each charge works okay for me.

What type of turret are you using, or have you moved to a full progressive? If it is a turret only (not progressive) do you find it much different/faster than using your breech lock system?

Wayne

 

[PugslyCat]

Are you that good?

Good point. No, I'm not actually that good that it should make a difference, especially on rifle rounds.

Justifying cost, what are your goals for the ammo? Accuracy and precision, or just plinking ammo. Trying to hit small targets at long range, or is minute-of-deer good enough.

At this point, I'm really looking at plinking out to a couple of hundred yards, so no, I probably won't benefit so much from the accuracy of the scale/measure. Eventually I'd like to do some hunting, but I need to work on my marksmanship first.

As far as rhythm and speed on a semi-progressive press, the auto scale will probably slow you down, but again, what are your goals?

How long does it take the auto scale to drop a charge? If it's about as long as it takes me to seat the bullet, crimp, and size teh next case I don't see the problem. If it takes longer than that it's an issue.

I cut my powder measurer charge in half, I put two dumps in each case, that seems to even out the high an low charges.

I may have to try that with rifle rounds. On pistol rounds I suspect the small charges would be more of a problem than I've got now.

 

[auk1124]

I had the RCBS one and used it for a year or so before it just completely died on me, no explanation. I never thought it was as accurate at dispensing as I could get with a scale and a good manual trickler. When it died I never bothered replacing it.

My thoughts are that they would be great for pistol, or high-volume reloading, but if you are reloading rifle rounds and trying to be as precise as you can, go with a good scale and a manual trickler. The Redding manual trickler works great on stick rifle powders - you can get to the point with it that you dispense out close to your target amount quickly, but then you can slow down and plink out one little stick at a time if you need to, to get that target weight.

 

[jkingrph]

I use a RCBS 10-10 scale and a manual trickler I made about 50 years ago. I also have a couple of volumetric powder measures, one set up for small pistol charges and the other with a larger metering chamber for rifle . I set them using my scale and get very accurate loads much faster than weighing each charge.

 

[fast14riot]

Personally, if I am going to use a powder that is very temp sensitive I will scoop and trickle each load by hand. Some powders are so temp sensitive that it will cause a ladder test to go all out of whack with a 20° swing in temp. Will a couple tenths do that to a temp stable powder? Not likely. Also the form factor of the powder dispenses different. Ball powders are usually what those things are designed to use best. Flake and cylinder powders throw things off.

What your ammo is for is also a big part. Shooting soda cans and paper plates for fun probably doesn't matter. If you start wildcatting, then everything needs to be as exact as possible for data purposes. I use a balance beam scale because human visual acuity can tell you if the scale isn't quite there yet, where a digital calibrated only to tenths will just change numbers...

How accurate you want to be starts with your reloading. Precision loading isn't automated. Good loading can be, though.

 

[nortac]

The RCBS unit is pretty fast and there are tweaks to make it faster. Obviously some powders will meter better than others. RCBS has a good warranty, but few things electronic work forever. I will never part with my RCBS 1010 balance beam scale, my Redding manual trickler or BR3 volumetric dispenser, I will always have a way to reload when the power fails. But when it comes to quickly reloading 120+ rounds for a precision rifle match, the RCBS auto scale is well worth the price of admission. That being said, I've made do without one for years, but I wish I had bought it earlier!
You are getting to the point where you will see the limits to Lee equipment. Yes It works for a small initial outlay. I'm not Lee bashing here, I've used it myself. Its when you try to advance beyond basic functions, like having a micrometer adjustable powder measure as opposed to predetermined volumes of an auto disc. If you don't get an auto scale, pony up for a good volumetric powder dispenser like the Redding BR3.

 

[PugslyCat]

Paul- I have no input on the cool/expensive auto measure, but for my rifle rounds I weigh each one. I use the scoop and trickle method. A typical day at the range with the rifle (.243) for me is only about twenty rounds and I am looking for the best possible accuracy. With a bolt gun and a cartridge larger than .223 I think that 20 - 30 rounds give or take is probably a "normal" shooting session.

I really haven't thought out how to load rifle charges witht he turret press. My first batch of .270 WIN cartridges still haven't gotten past being sized and primed, so I need to finish them. My plan with the single stage press was to use one of the Lee dippers to throw a light charge into a scale pan, trickle it to final weight, and use a powder funnel to charge cases in loading blocks. There's a good chance that I'll stick to the single stage press or disable indexing on the turret press for large rifle rounds.

If I were shooting a semi-auto .223, I'm sure I'd shoot much more ammo per range trip and would use some sort of powder measure, either the type you have or if I fell into some money, something fancier.

Also- it takes me much longer to load 20 rounds of rifle compared to handgun, I am just much more particular with it, and since I shoot a low volume weighing each charge works okay for me.

I think my mindset is really stuck on producing hundreds of handgun bullets at a time. Going to a seminar where the instructor was reloading .223 on his progressive press probably didn't do anything to dissuade me from approaching reloading for rifles in the same manner as I'm doing pistol rounds. I probably need to rethink that whole process.

What type of turret are you using, or have you moved to a full progressive? If it is a turret only (not progressive) do you find it much different/faster than using your breech lock system?

I recently bought the Lee Precision 4 Hole Turret Press with Auto Index that I'm using in indexing mode. For $65 I couldn't pass it up. As I recall from some of our earlier discussions this is similar to what you are using, but if I recall correctly you have removed the indexing rod.

I have yet to do any time trials with it, but it seems to be quicker than my single stage Lee Breech Lock Challenger Press. The biggest time saver seems to be reduced cartridge handling. Instead of fiddling with getting cases in and out of loading blocks or plastic bins at each step I put the case in the press and don't have to move it until it's done. Unless it's one of the 10% or 20% that I'm weighing. That's the break in the rythm that I would like to avoid.

I'm enjoying that I can walk away from reloading at the turret press at almost any point and all the cartridges that I've worked on are completed. It kind of stinks to realize I am getting tired or the cat is yacking on something when the loading blocks have a hundred freshly charged cases still in need of bullets and crimping before I can really get away.

I never got additional bushings to use the Breech Lock system, so having disks already set up for a couple of different calibers has been nice. I never thought that setting up a different die every fifty or hundred rounds was a real problem, but being able to plop in a disk, fill the powder measure, and start pulling the lever has been a treat.

My thinking with this post was that if I was using the automated dispenser I could charge one case and it would have another trickled charge ready for me by the time I finished the current case and got the next one sized and primed.

 

[the_ogre25]

Maybe you have already looked into it but why not a case activated powder measure like on a progressive? For 120 bucks you can get a Hornady linkage kit and a measure. My rotor measure never deviates more than 1/10 of a grain if any.
You mentioned 270 reloading. I would stick to the single stage for that. Your probably not running blasting ammo like you would with 223.

 

[PugslyCat]

Bryce, I am using the Lee Auto-Disk which is case activated. I seem to be having a little more variation in charges than I would like, but still slight enough that I can live with it. I have indeed looked at the Hornady system, but was discouraged when I saw online what seemed to indicate that it worked with the Hornady progressive presses only. If you can tell me that it should work in any press that accepts standard dies I'm willing to give it a try.

When I'm using a single stage press it works pretty well to:
a) Set the tare weight on the scale while moving the case from a bin to the press
b) Expand and charge it,
c) Weigh it again to get the charge weight while moving the case to a loading block.

Since getting the turret press it just seems to try and continue the same process:
a) Take the case off the press after sizing & priming,
b) Set tare weight on the scale,
c) Put it back on the press
d) Expand and charge the case
e) Take the case off again to weigh the charge
f) Put it back in the shell holder to continue loading.

As you can see, for the charges that get weighed that's a lot of extra little steps every fifth or tenth case.

That really got me thinking of trying to go with the automated system that would measure and weigh each charge. Weighing every charge was just a bonus. All I would need to do is dump the charge through a funnel and through the charging die. I saw that Midway USA has the Hornady automatic dispenser/scale on sale and that really got me thinking. You guys have pretty much talked me out of it.

Maybe my solution is to start weighing charges in a scale pan instead of in the case. That would simplify the process to dumping the charged case into the Lyman combination pan/funnel, weigh it, and then dump it back into the case. That's less getting the case on an off the press.

 

[tinashubby]

Paul- when loading for handgun on my turret, used in single stage mode, I just charge a case normally with the auto disc, dump it in the pan on the scale (tare set to the pan), then dump the pan back into the top of the powder measure hopper. Re-insert the empty case into the shell holder, charge and go. It is a minimal interruption in my timing, however since you are using your press in its automatic mode, I guess this doesn't help out-just thought of that...duh!

But anyway...I usually check every tenth case, and am always within a tenth or two so I don't get too concerned, my hands just aren't that steady when shooting handgun that I will realize the variations on my targets

 

[the_ogre25]

Paul,
Sorry I did not relies that the turret had a automatic powder charging capability, I may have to look into one of these!
I do not think the Hornady setup would be much improvement then.

Do you sort your cases by headstamp? If you do not and are weighing cases to check your charges that might explain some of your deviations. I do it like tinashubby and dump every 10-20th case in the scale pan to check when loading single stage. Do you have a empty spot on your turret? If so maybe a "powder cop die" would work for you.

I think most people that run a true progressive just set the charge weight and then dump a few to check the accuracy or dump 10 or so charges and figure out how much they are off over that range. If everything checks out they just do a visual inspection of the cases before they seat a bullet to make sure its not a double charge or a squib.

 

[nortac]

"I think most people that run a true progressive just set the charge weight and then dump a few to check the accuracy or dump 10 or so charges and figure out how much they are off over that range. If everything checks out they just do a visual inspection of the cases before they seat a bullet to make sure its not a double charge or a squib."

This is what I do with my Dillon 550 for most pistol ammo, .223 , .30 carbine and 7.62x39 "blasting" ammo. I dump 10 charges together into the weighing pan and weigh them together, divide that result by 10, should be almost exactly the desired charge weight. If not, adjust the volumetric powder measure. This of course assumes that you are using a powder that meters accurately through an accurate powder measure.
If I am loading Match grade ammo or hunting ammo or any ammo that is approaching a maximum load, I slow my roll and measure each and every charge and load my ammo on a T7 Redding turret or Forster Co-Ax single stage. This is where the RCBS auto scale earns its keep. In any event, I would not count on the accuracy of weighing charged cases unless you have previously weighed all of the empty cases and found them to be within 0.1 grains, which to me would be a total waste of time for a large number of cases not used for Match grade ammo.
Paul, if I understood you correctly, you are re-taring the scale for each case? That would be accurate but an incredible waste of time.
The RCBS auto scale is quick enough to measure the next charge by the time I seat a bullet in my .308 match ammo and am ready for the next round. This is in the context of having a loading block full of sized and primed cases ready to be charged and a bullet seated in single stage fashion. I use the Lyman scale pan with the built in powder funnel on the side, very efficient not having to use a separate powder funnel. Of course you can use a charge through die on the turret press, but that adds an extra station before bullet seating.

 

[PugslyCat]

I just charge a case normally with the auto disc, dump it in the pan on the scale (tare set to the pan), then dump the pan back into the top of the powder measure hopper. Re-insert the empty case into the shell holder, charge and go. It is a minimal interruption in my timing, however since you are using your press in its automatic mode, I guess this doesn't help out-just thought of that...duh!

Actually I think you may have hit upon the solution. Just dump the case into the scale pan and then dump the pan into the hopper instead of putting that charge back in that cartridge. I can even reset the tare weight of the pan after weighing each charge so that I don't have to dump the pan after every weighing.

But anyway...I usually check every tenth case, and am always within a tenth or two so I don't get too concerned, my hands just aren't that steady when shooting handgun that I will realize the variations on my targets

My results with charge consistency are about the same as yours. As I didn't make clear initially, I'm less miffed about the accuracy than the hassle of getting the charge weighed.

Sorry I did not relies that the turret had a automatic powder charging capability, I may have to look into one of these! I do not think the Hornady setup would be much improvement then.

The Lee Auto-Disk has been great to use! I don't know that it works with dies other than the Lee powder through expanding dies included in their sets or their universal charging die which would be set in the station following expanding dies by other manufacturers.

Do you sort your cases by headstamp? If you do not and are weighing cases to check your charges that might explain some of your deviations.

I haven't been sorting by headstamp. The difference between cases can actually be several grains, which is why I've been setting the tare weight for each case that will get weighed with the charge. That should do away with the deviations.

I do it like tinashubby and dump every 10-20th case in the scale pan to check when loading single stage.

I suspect that it's something with being self taught through YouTube videos that somehow it stuck with me that I should weigh a charge that I'm actually putting into a cartridge. If I break from that and just dump the weighed charge back into the hopper it should improve things.

Do you have a empty spot on your turret? If so maybe a "powder cop die" would work for you.

I think most people that run a true progressive just set the charge weight and then dump a few to check the accuracy or dump 10 or so charges and figure out how much they are off over that range. If everything checks out they just do a visual inspection of the cases before they seat a bullet to make sure its not a double charge or a squib.

I like that powder cop die! I can take the sizing die off the turret to open up a spot since I am leaning towards off the press priming anyway.

I've been a bit paranoid about running into squibs since starting with the turret press. With the single stage press I would have 50 charged cases in a loading block and it was very easy to compare charges and pick out the light ones, which were a serious problem with the Lee Perfect Powder Measure I had been using.

I think most people that run a true progressive just set the charge weight...

This is what I do with my Dillon 550 for most pistol ammo, .223 , .30 carbine and 7.62x39 "blasting" ammo.

Going that way is another option. The Auto-Disk doesn't seem to be dumping any charges that are real outliers, so perhaps after getting the charge set a visual inspection of each case or using the powder cop die is good enough. This wouldn't be the first reloading task that I have over thought and made more difficult than was necessary!

Paul, if I understood you correctly, you are re-taring the scale for each case? That would be accurate but an incredible waste of time.

I have only been weighing every fifth or tenth case, but have indeed been setting the tare weight for each of those. To me that seems quite accurate, but since it is a waste of time I'm trying to find a better way. It wasn't so bad on the single stage press because the case was already in motion to and from the press anyway, but is killing my throughput with the turret press. I think you guys have me straightened out.

The RCBS auto scale is quick enough to measure the next charge by the time I seat a bullet in my .308 match ammo and am ready for the next round. This is in the context of having a loading block full of sized and primed cases ready to be charged and a bullet seated in single stage fashion. I use the Lyman scale pan with the built in powder funnel on the side, very efficient not having to use a separate powder funnel. Of course you can use a charge through die on the turret press, but that adds an extra station before bullet seating.

That last bit was exactly where I thought that I was heading when I started this thread. With the Lee die sets the expanding die is a powder through design. I would have removed my current powder measure from it and affixed a powder funnel in it's place.

You guys have convinced me that there are better ways to fix my process than spending $170 on the automated powder measure. Thank you all for your input. This should help a lot.

 

[caitlin4661]

I have found some good options for Powder trickler. These really helped me a lot.
Hornady Powder Trickler
Frankford Arsenal Powder Trickler
RCBS Powder Trickler
Lee Precision 90058 Perfect Powder Measure
Hornady 505010 Lock-n-Load Quick Trickle
Layman E-Zee Flow Universal Powder Trickler
Redding Reloading Model No. 5 Powder Trickler