Relatively new to straight razor shaving....have a couple questions!!!!

[DanielM110509]

My first attempt was with a Fromm razor which I believe was for hairstyling; then after many failed attempts with it I lost interest. I purchased a c-mon Cadillac Solingen razor, which I was told by a barber was one of the best. It came shave ready and was much easier to use, but still I was using it for shave ups. As I got into the workings I became intrigued with the sharpening process. It seems to commercially available apparatuses are either of low quality or don't work properly.

So after doing some research I purchased a Dovo Bismarck razor which has the weight and feel I was looking for. I also purchased a 12k grit Chinese whet stone that came with a slurry stone. I haven't received it yet but I strop the razor constantly. I need advisement on a regiment of products to use, how often to hone (and if I'm using the right stone).

So is Dovo the best razor company out their? All I hear is great feedback; I'm very impressed with the blade but not so much with the plastic handle. And does anybody know about this c-mon razor? It was made in Solingen so it has to be somewhat good, right?

Essentially I'm seeking a guru to help me through this journey so I can attain more enjoyment from it. Anybody who could help out I'd greatly appreciate it!!!

DanielM110509

 

[jamesspo]

Welcome to B&B Daniel! You'll get some responses here I'm sure, but you'll be best served by asking this over on the straight razor and honing forums. There's a ton of info there, and you'll get lots of help. If you haven't already, you might check out the straight razor articles on the B&B ShaveWiki.


http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Straight_razors

and here's the top level of the straight razor forum (honing, clinic and other forums within):

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdisplay.php/32-General-Straight-Razor-Talk

 

[Oblique Human]

I start my straight journey this September if you can wait , till then, Welcome to B&B!

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Welcome to B&B! I anticipate a professional honing in your future. What kind I'd soaps/creams are you using?

 

[Slash McCoy]

No, Dovo is not the best razor company out there. They do sell a lot of razors, though. The Bismarck is one of their better offerings.

A straight razor does not have a handle. It has scales. The scales are not a handle because you don't hold the razor by the scales.

Your 12k will work for maintenance honing. What it will not do is hone a razor from scratch, or do any sort of edge repair. When it seems to not be shaving as good as it ought to, give it 50 laps or so on the C12k and if no improvement, keep honing. Be sure to always keep the spine on the stone and never for an instant lift the spine from the stone when the edge is touching the stone. At the end of the stroke, flip the edge up and over, not the spine. Don't let the shoulder ride up on the stone. Keep the pressure very light. Oh, and lap your stone when you get it. If it isn't flat you will not enjoy good results, and just because it looks flat doesn't make it flat.

A block of balsa, 3" x 12" x 1" or 3/4", pasted with diamond paste or CrOx, will simplify edge maintenance. Just strop on the balsa a dozen laps after each shave. You can go a very long time without honing if you use a pasted balsa strop between shaves. You still must strop on unpasted leather before each shave, though.

Plastic scales are the norm.

 

[DanielM110509]

So you do keep the spine flush on the hone?!? This doesn't ruin the spine; should I tape the spine, and how do I use the slurry stone correctly. I just ordered two paddle strops and diamond paste (1 micron and 0.5 micron.) I figured this would be a good start and it only cost me like $40 total. I used the whetstone for the first time today and it worked really well especially since I only paid $35 for it. I've only worked on the c-mon blade; I'm not touching the Bismarck for a while! On YouTube I see guys using a vice like apparatus for their stones; where can I get one?

I'm ordering the Proraso pre shave and their regular shave soap; any recommendations on a good oil to use? I have a really thick beard so the more help the better! I really appreciate everybody's feedback.

 

[DanielM110509]

What is the best razor company?

 

[Prof. Moriarty]

So you do keep the spine flush on the hone?!? This doesn't ruin the spine; should I tape the spine, and how do I use the slurry stone correctly. I just ordered two paddle strops and diamond paste (1 micron and 0.5 micron.)

Now you have done it You asked Slash about taping spines...

Anywho welcome to B&B. I would consider grabbing a sight unseen deal from http://whippeddog.com/ Best way to get into straights in my opinion. You do not need any oil, just get your lathering and technique down and you will be fine. I would read through the straight razor stickies on here to find out more. Also watch some videos on youtube like GeoFatBoy.

Hope this helps you out mate.

 

[Prof. Moriarty]

What kind of brush are you using by the way?

What is the best razor company?

There isn't one. There are many good companies, and lots of fantastic vintage straights. It is all a matter of personal preference (there are however some not so good razors out there, which are new, and sold for very cheap... excluding Gold Dollars if you know how to fix em).

 

[DanielM110509]

I'm using a badger hair brush that sheds like a golden retriever when I use it. I bought it when I got that FROMM ***. What are some well established razor companies? The c-mon razor was the first sharp razor I ever encountered and it reinvigorated my passion to straight shave. Now I'm using conk soap, and it's not going so well. I want to do things correctly but I don't want to break the bank either.

 

[Slash McCoy]

So you do keep the spine flush on the hone?!? This doesn't ruin the spine; should I tape the spine, and how do I use the slurry stone correctly. I just ordered two paddle strops and diamond paste (1 micron and 0.5 micron.) I figured this would be a good start and it only cost me like $40 total. I used the whetstone for the first time today and it worked really well especially since I only paid $35 for it. I've only worked on the c-mon blade; I'm not touching the Bismarck for a while! On YouTube I see guys using a vice like apparatus for their stones; where can I get one?

I'm ordering the Proraso pre shave and their regular shave soap; any recommendations on a good oil to use? I have a really thick beard so the more help the better! I really appreciate everybody's feedback.

Yes. The spine must stay on the hone. It is your bevel guide. If you lift the spine from the hone while honing, you are NOT, I repeat, NOT honing correctly. Your bevel angle will be all over the place but certainly it will be too obtuse.

No, do not tape the spine. You only need to tape the spine of a hollowground razor when you have measured and calculated the bevel angle and it is too acute. This is very rarely encountered. When you hone, you are wearing away steel from both the edge and the spine. They are wearing more or less in proportion, and the bevel angle will remain more or less the same. When you tape the spine, you prevent wear to the spine but you are not preventing wear to the edge. So the edge wears, but not the spine. Eventually this will cause the bevel angle to change, getting more obtuse. Once it gets past 18 degrees in general the shave will not be as good. Past 20 degrees and you may as well shave with your pocketknife. So don't tape unless you know what you are doing and you have a good reason to do so.

The paddles will work but a block of balsa is better. Most paddle strops are rather small. Nothing wrong with that but a bigger one is easier to use and to get good results from. I recommend a block of balsa, 3" wide and 12" long, 1" or 3/4" thick. Paste one side with the 1u and the other side with the .5u.

What you are seeing is a stone holder and it isn't really necessary. You can make a perfectly adequate holder out of wood. I prefer to hold the stone loosely in my left hand. This allows the stone and the blade to find their own alignment and allows me to use less pressure and still have good control of the blade. When you lay the stone on a fixed surface and especially when you use both hands on the razor, it feels like you have more precise control but in fact you are much more likely to make one of several mistakes. Try holding the stone (loosely) in the left hand and the razor in the right, as you hone. The stone and the razor sort of find each other.

 

[DanielM110509]

I really appreciate your help. The paddle strops I purchased are 11"x5"x1.5". Do I apply all the paste to the strop? Does it matter if I use the rough or smooth side of the leather? And when stropping with the paste is it the same technique as regular stropping? Lead with the blade or the spine? I would get the balsa strops but I already ordered these, and they already shipped from a non return seller.

So maintenance would go in the order of stone honing, 1 micron stropping, 0.5 stropping, and then regular stropping? And if I do this somewhat regularly I can getaway without a 8k or 10k stone? I looked at the naniwa stones, and there is no getting them cheap!

The Chinese whetstone I got put a great edge on the c-mon blade I have; I lucked out buying it on eBay. I got it from an American seller.

Again, thank you very much for helping out the new guy!!!

 

[DanielM110509]

What are the best stones to use? I hear the naniwa chosera are the best. Hypothetically if I was going to restore old razors what grits would I need specifically? When putting a bevel on a razor is it the same technique as regular honing, that is spine flush on the stone?

 

[mdunn]

There is no 'best' stone or razor. There is just personal preference. I like my coti, others like jnats, others like etc etc.

to restore (and again, this is all personal preference, and everyone has a different setup), I have a 1k, a 4k, an 8k, a coti with BBW side and c12k. After the 1k, I either go with the BBW and coti, or up the water stones.

 

[Doc226]

a vice like apparatus for their stones; where can I get one?

This one

What is the best razor company?

Can't answer that, what is the best pair of jeans? Everyone will have a different one.

Now you have done it You asked Slash about taping spines...

That was my thought-Oh no, hahaha

What are the best stones to use? I hear the naniwa chosera are the best. Hypothetically if I was going to restore old razors what grits would I need specifically? When putting a bevel on a razor is it the same technique as regular honing, that is spine flush on the stone?

Again a matter of preference. Some people elope coticules, JNATs, Thuri, Arkies, C12K. Many, many different options

You should swing by the straight razor sub forum, LOTS of information there

 

[Slash McCoy]

I really appreciate your help. The paddle strops I purchased are 11"x5"x1.5".

That's a 5" wide by 11" surface? That is more than wide enough. Most paddles are only about 1.5" to 2" wide and I recommend at least 2-3/4" wide for ease of use, and to enable a newbie to get the best possible results the soonest. I have never even seen a strop that wide. Or that thick.

You do mean INCHES, and not CENTIMETERS, right? The double quote mark means inches. A single quote means feet. We also can abbreviate inches to in. but we usually use the quote mark. For centimeters we append the cm. abbreviation. If you strop is 5cm wide, that is pretty narrow but typical. It can be used, and many shavers get by okay with that width, but the advantages of a paddle wide enough to take the entire edge should be obvious. It is much easier and gives much better results early on.

Do I apply all the paste to the strop?

All you need initially is enough to feel the lubricity of the carrier (the liquid or pastey part) barely present over the entire surface. This will dry and soak into the leather after a few days and it will feel like there is no abrasive there, but it is there. Typically a dot the size of a BB will do for the initial pasting of a strop that size. Every month or so of regular use you could reapply maybe half that amount. You do NOT want any kind of buildup. The diamond particles embed themselves into the leather.

Does it matter if I use the rough or smooth side of the leather?

Yes, it matters. Use the smooth side.

And when stropping with the paste is it the same technique as regular stropping? Lead with the blade or the spine?

Stropping is always done with the spine leading. Leading with the edge would be honing. If you try to hone on a strop you will slice it to bits.

I would get the balsa strops but I already ordered these, and they already shipped from a non return seller.

So get the balsa but keep the leather. Seriously, the balsa works much better for this. And it is very cheap. Also if your paddle is 5cm wide and not 5" wide, then you want to get some 3" (3 inch) wide balsa. Trust me on this. Narrow works, but wide works better and easier. And did I mention it is cheap?

So maintenance would go in the order of stone honing, 1 micron stropping, 0.5 stropping, and then regular stropping? And if I do this somewhat regularly I can getaway without a 8k or 10k stone? I looked at the naniwa stones, and there is no getting them cheap!

No promises on the leather, but I can go indefinitely without rehoning, if after every shave I strop for a dozen laps on pasted balsa. But while the Chosera is indeed a very good stone, lapping film is superior for many reasons, and it is certainly cheaper. Film gives you a BIG honing surface. Film gives you a FLAT honing surface, depending on what you use for a plate, and nothing ever needs to be flattened now or ever. Nothing to soak. No slurry needed. Inexpensive. Quick and easy learning curve, and incredible edges. Newbies typically get "professional" results right out of the box, and are able to get better than professional edges after a couple of sessions and a little feedback in the forum.

There is maintenance, and there is maintenance. Simply honing on a finishing stone when the edge gets dull, typically after a month of shaving, is maintenance honing. But DAILY maintenance of the edge would be like stropping on diamond for a dozen or half dozen laps after each shave. If daily maintenance is done, once you have your technique dialed in, you will seldom if ever need to touch a stone with that particular razor again.

Ordinary stropping on a hanging strop before each shave is still needed, no matter what, but I don't call that maintenance. To me, it is part of the shave, just like lathering.

The Chinese whetstone I got put a great edge on the c-mon blade I have; I lucked out buying it on eBay. I got it from an American seller.

Again, thank you very much for helping out the new guy!!!

There is sharp, and there is sharp. I suspect that your C12k actually needs lapping since you did not have it professionally lapped and presumably did not do it yourself. As good as you think you did, you can probably actually do much better. You are only scratching the surface so far. It gets better and better, especially if you are hanging out on this forum and getting ideas and tips from some of the experts here. I thought I was a pretty good razor honer until I started delving into films and the finer points of honing in general. Guys here like Seraphim to name just one, have definitely improved my edges that I once thought could not be improved upon. Of course, if your edges are already good enough for you, then there is no need to improve. The dark side calls. But you don't have to answer if you don't want to. Nothing wrong with mediocrity. It all depends on how easily satisfied you are.

 

[Slash McCoy]

What are the best stones to use? I hear the naniwa chosera are the best. Hypothetically if I was going to restore old razors what grits would I need specifically? When putting a bevel on a razor is it the same technique as regular honing, that is spine flush on the stone?

Yes yes yes. ALWAYS hone with the spine on the hone. The only exception is if you must breadknife, which is a technique you don't need to worry about unless you have a severely damaged edge with big dings, dents, nicks, a frown or other irregularities that require massive steel removal. If you set the bevel with the spine raised, how in the world would you possibly polish that bevel with the spine on the hone? Once and for all, YES. The spine MUST be on the hone when honing ALWAYS. If you lift the spine, you destroy your bevel. This is a razor, not a pocketknife. Be thankful that you have such a perfect built-in bevel guide as the spine, and use it as intended, as if your life depended on it. Please, do not even consider in your wildest dreams lifting the spine from the hone! It simply must not EVER be done. Do not even entertain the thought! Do not ask! Do you want to shave with your razor, or open your mail with it?

Do a search for lapping film threads. Here is a freebie. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576. Asking what are the best stones is like asking what is the best car. My suggestion is get out of the stone age and stop rubbing your razor on rocks to make it sharp. Film is easier, cheaper, and gives the newbie far better edges. Stone honing always involves compromises, such as size (I hear guys whining, "well, my stones are big enough, sorta" and other guys growling, "Be a man and learn to hone on a dinky little 2" wide rock because it will build your skill!") and I know plenty of guys hone on unlapped stones and don't care or don't notice, and others spend a lot of time and effort lapping and polishing, and other guys have a 7 stone progression with a Shapton 20k finisher, and other guys with a whole basket of coticule bouts that are "good enough", or a massive cotucule that is a delight to use, but cost over $400, or a collection of vintage Jnats and rare slurry stones, or thuris, or Naniwa Superstones in every grit or Choseras, or all of the above. THEY ALL WILL WORK, and all methods, if you know what you are doing, eventually will give you a good edge. But film is the fast and easy way to get to the top of the learning curve and have truly incredible edges. I would love to have a 75mm x 250mm natural combo coti, from any vein you could mention. But I would rather have the $400 because I can buy enough film and beer to keep honing for an incredibly long time, and always get a scary sharp edge.

 

[DanielM110509]

The strop size is correct; it is leather on wood and yes it is in inches. I may be new to straight razors but I'm quite schooled in systems of nomenclature that deal with measurement. I found them on eBay, custom made. I also ordered a balsam strop that already has 0.25µ diamond paste on it. That strop is 3 inches by 8 I believe. On the C12k it was lapped and chamfered by the seller; the surface is smoother than anything I've ever encountered! I also ordered a 60x jewelers loupe to keep an eye on the bevel of my razors.

 

[DanielM110509]

Do a search for lapping film threads. Here is a freebie. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576. Asking what are the best stones is like asking what is the best car. My suggestion is get out of the stone age and stop rubbing your razor on rocks to make it sharp. Film is easier, cheaper, and gives the newbie far better edges. Stone honing always involves compromises, such as size (I hear guys whining, "well, my stones are big enough, sorta" and other guys growling, "Be a man and learn to hone on a dinky little 2" wide rock because it will build your skill!") and I know plenty of guys hone on unlapped stones and don't care or don't notice, and others spend a lot of time and effort lapping and polishing, and other guys have a 7 stone progression with a Shapton 20k finisher, and other guys with a whole basket of coticule bouts that are "good enough", or a massive cotucule that is a delight to use, but cost over $400, or a collection of vintage Jnats and rare slurry stones, or thuris, or Naniwa Superstones in every grit or Choseras, or all of the above. THEY ALL WILL WORK, and all methods, if you know what you are doing, eventually will give you a good edge. But film is the fast and easy way to get to the top of the learning curve and have truly incredible edges. I would love to have a 75mm x 250mm natural combo coti, from any vein you could mention. But I would rather have the $400 because I can buy enough film and beer to keep honing for an incredibly long time, and always get a scary sharp edge.

Lapping film seems like the way to go! I was making a deal with a guy in Japan to get a set of choseras when you posted your thread. I'm going to try the films before any major stone purchases. Do you recommend the narrow sheets or the 8.5"x11"? And what grits would you recommend? And what is the deal with oil on coticle, and why am I getting private messages suggesting it?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Lol! Oil on coticule probably works great for finishing but so would lather. It makes the blade stand off of the hone a fraction of A micron so the scratches are not as deep. This technique works best with a lot of laps.

The full size sheets work great. Use a paper cutter to cut the sheet in thirds. Going crossways the pieces are a bit short but not too bad. Cutting longways they are just a bit narrow but still wide enough to take the full edge length of most razors if you lead slightly with the heel. This is very economical use of the film.

For bevel setting you want 12u film or 1k sandpaper. Your 1k stone will work instead, if it is nice and wide. For refining and polishing the bevel you want 5u or 6u, and 3u. Your 3k stone will do the job of the 6u if it is wide and flat a coticule normally does the job that the 6u and 3u films do, if you have a slurry stone and if the coti is a big one otherwise you are better off with film in fact the coti, while it is a great stone in skilled hands, might take a while to learn so at this stage my personal recommendation is to go with film For a finisher get 1u. You don't need the .3u. For just maintaining an already sharp edge you only. Red the 1u and maybe the 3u.

That is a really wide paddle! I have not seen one that wide which is why I thought maybe you meant cm.

I would hold off on the choosers set for now. They are great stones but they will not give you a better edge than film. Spend your money on other things like more razors to hone!