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Honing new blade - help

First: I’m new to SR shaving aside from having dabbled with it for a very short period back in the mid 70’s. Yeah, I’m one of the old farts at the age of 77. Been hanging around here for about a month and this is my first post. Switched over to DE shaving about 2 months ago and enjoying it, but now have decided to jump into SR shaving with both feet as I enjoy the ritual of SR shaving. Having said that: my first razor is a Theirs-Issard 6/8” Grelot razor which I purchased as being honed by Portland Razor Co. and seems to shave quite well albeit I’m taking things slowly and just using it to shave my cheeks until I gain more confidence and dexterity with these ‘ol Neuropathic ridden hands caused by aggressive chemo from fighting pancreatic cancer for the past 2 years.

I then recently purchased a DOVO 5/8” “Special” which I got on sale from The Superior Shave, but decided not to have it honed as I wish to gain experience on doing so myself, and as it turns out I’ll need to do so as it barely shaves the hair off of my harms if held down to the skin. I figured I would first try stropping it, but it didn't make the least bit difference. I have some experience in sharpening knives and watching a plethora a plethora of YouTube videos on SR honing (my favorite being Dr. Matts channel). I have some Zwilling glass stones from knife sharpening (400. 1000 & 5000K) and also a Shapton 8000K, Naniwa 1200K Super Stone, ILR 2 ½ X 8” Ultra Fine and also an Atoma 400 Flattening plate. Now to my question: What would be your best suggestion on honing this Dovo? Should I simply start with the Naniwa 1200K and see how it turns out, or should I first begin with the 8000K Shapton and then on to the 12000K Naniwa as a finishing stone (and perhaps also finish with the ILR)? I doubt I would have to begin with the 5000K, but by all means correct me if I’m wrong on that assumption. My sincere apologies for the length of this post, but I thought it best to also give some background seeing that it’s my first post here. Any and all input/help would be most greatly appreciated.

Regards,
and a Merry Christmas/Hanukkah to all!
 

Legion

OTF jewel hunter
Staff member
Yep. Start with the 1.2k and stick with it until the blade shaves arm hair along its whole length. Then progress up through the grits.

Chances are a new Dovo won’t have the bevel properly set, so that is always the first and most important step.
 
Happy Holidays!

You will need to set the bevel using the 1200 stone, then progress to finer stones as finishers, ending up on the 12k.

If you are coming from knife sharpening, you need to be aware that you need WAY less pressure on the razor! As in just wipe the blade up and down the stone while holding the spine nearly off the stone completely (it needs to touch, but just barely).

Took me a while to learn that. Knife honers tend to grind razors to death until they learn what "light pressure" means. Just like shaving with a DE, you want the edge in contact and just about nothing more in terms of pressure. More pressure simply flexes the actual apex up off the stone and you grind away behind it forever without ever getting the bevel set!
 
Happy holidays!

I would probably start with the 5k and the sharpie test. Make sure the stone is flat before starting and see what the marks look like. If all the of the bevel is being removed you can start working on the bevel with the 1k. In the event they are not I would then post photos here for opinions.

If the razor is warped you will probably want to start with something different. In the sharpie test if the center is being removed on 1 side, and the edges on the other side of the bevel - that could be an indicator of a warped blade that Dovo sometimes sends out.
 

Legion

OTF jewel hunter
Staff member
Actually, depending on the state of the bevel you may want to apply some pressure (or better yet, torque the razor towards the edge) in the early stages. Not so much that the blade flexes, but you will need some pressure to remove steel. How much? One way it was explained to me in the beginning is about as much as you use with a pencil eraser, or a jut bit less if the blade is flexy. As you get closer to the finishing stages you will want a lighter and lighter touch.
 
I also recommend the sharpie test and move to your 5k stone and see what steel is being removed. It is likely you will need to reset your bevel, hower this will be a quick test to see what the bevel looks like. With you being a new honer, you might want to try this first, as the bevel set is the most complex part of the honing session.

If 5k looks good you can then just progress though your stones and probably finish on the 12K or ILR. I would recommend only learning on your Synthetics until you can get a repeatably great edge. Then once you know how that feels you can start the Natural stone experiment.
 
As a few others have said, the bevel is the most important part of honing a razor. A well finished blade means nothing if the bevel isn't set properly.

As there has already been good advice given I won't add anything further.

Good luck.
 
There is a good chance the edge is not completely straight. Embrace that. Do not try to grind metal away to force it straight. Instead, just use rolling strokes and x strokes to get the two faces of the bevel together along the wonky edge. If you try to force it straight, you will probably fail and also pretty much ruin the razor. Don't ask me how I know.
 
So, it sounds like you have all the stones you need. Forget the ILR it is of unknow grit and performance potential.

No mention of magnification, get 60x magnification, I like the 60/120x Carson Micro-Brite lighted handheld scope, $15. You need to be able to look at the stria pattern on the bevel and see if you are honing to the edge from heel to toe.

The goal of learning to hone razors is to first eliminate as many variables as possible, natural stones are huge variables. Once you have mastered synthetic stones, then introduce naturals.

New Dovo’s are all over the map in terms of grind quality and “honed” factory edge. So, first find out where your razor is.

Lapp you 12k with the diamond plate, mark a pencil grid and remove it 3-4 times, when you can remove a new pencil grid, COMPLETELY in less that 10 laps it is flat enough to hone on. Bevel the edges of the stone.

Mark the razor bevel with colored sharpie, colored ink is much easier to see, use the side of the felt tip to ink the whole bevel, both sides.

Put he razor on the 12k, no tape on the spine and do one lite lap on both sides. What you see, where the ink is removed, will determine how it needs to be honed.

If you are lucky, the ink will be removed from most of the bevel and especially to or near the edge. And you can add a single layer of electrical tape and get a well-honed bevel in a few laps 20-30, on the 12k.

Learn to hone using tape on the bevel, it is common for new razor honers to use too much pressure, do too many laps on low grit stones and needlessly trash bevels and spines. Tape will at least protect the spine, there is no downside to using tape.

You do not want to put a new razor on a 1k stone and start grinding away on the spine and bevel, hoping to hone a bevel flat and make a shaving edge. There is no need to trash a razor, you hone a razor by how it needs to be honed. So, find out if the bevels lay flat on the stone.

A photo of your razor, both sides that shows the whole spine and bevel will be helpful.
 
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Was that intentional or how it turned out? Seriously, not being a wise guy.

A razor with a slight smile, (curved edge) will shave better than a straight edge, it cuts hair with a slight slicing cut. And it is easier to hone a smile than a straight edge.

Do you cut tomatoes and bread with a push cut, if so, a slight slicing cut will cut much better.

And how much of the razor did you grind way to get a straight edge, hope you taped the spine.
 
Answer: it had a wonky grind. I just ground the wonky grind straight. I should look to see if I still have that one.

I did not try to roll with the wavey bevel. I don't have the skill to rolling x or whatever it is called.

I am a simple man...no rolling strokes.
 
...within reason...
That's a big qualifier.

If you are just honing it regularly without removing a lot of metal, I wouldn't really call it forcing it straight. I would just call that honing a reasonably straight edge. No harm there.

I wouldn't call heel correction forcing it straight either.

If there is a big swoop and you just lap up and down on a coarse stone until the whole bevel is set, you will put a lot of hone wear on the spine, and even if you tape the spine, you can put a frown on the edge, which can make the heel and toe pointy so they dive into skin.

Rolling strokes and x strokes will get the bevel set without messing up the edge and may put a bit of smile which makes it easier to shave with, cutting hair with less force and less prone to cut skin.
 
A wonky bevel, are you talking about a frown in the edge?

Helicopter is talking about a warped spine razor, most razor have a bit of warp from heat treating. You compensate for warp by honing a rolling X stroke, just like you would with a knife, most knives have a curved edge and require you to lift the heel to hone the tip and do a bit of gymnastics.

Even cleavers and carving knives rarely have perfectly straight edges.

It is rare that a razor is perfectly ground and sits flat, spine, bevel and edge. And why you should finish the razor with lite rolling X strokes, how much you roll depends on the straightness of the edge.
 
I have around 100 vintage razors from various origins, and the majority have some warp, usually minor but enough I have to pay attention while honing them.

Some of them have slight smiles, a few are dead straight, and a couple are what I would call "wonky" -- and one of those was "restored" using a belt sander so it has an overgrind in two places. Fortunately it ends up as a funky smile edge.

The problem with grinding a razor into a straight edge when it isn't actually completely straight and properly ground is that you are very, very likely to grind a frown into the edge. Some razors are actually forged to have a smiling edge, and you will end up with a huge bevel grinding them to a "straight" edge. Looks bad and won't shave one iota better.

My philosophy is the hone a good edge on whatever shape the razor is. I'll remove minor chips or corrosion, but I don't see any real point in trying alter the factory shape, just wastes time and steel. Old framebacks are usually ground to a smile, and I don't see a problem with a slightly smiling edge.
 
Me? I would buy a generic solingen razor buyitnow for like 15 bucks and learn on that. Even experiment a bit. Starting on that new razor is risky as you could put unnecessary hone wear on it. Not that is a big deal but it won’t be as pretty. A 5 8s hollow solingen or even a us made are great razors to learn on and generally excellent shavers.
 
The way I decide how much smile a razor has is by looking at the spine. The spine will tell me what shape it will hone best for me.
I personally like to keep the razor same as I got it from the maker. Without changing geometry. If every time I hone I remove lest material as I can while getting a good edge and not changing geometry. I'll count that as a win in my book.
 
Thanks for all the numerous input and help. Some vey minor divergence on how to go about this, but that’s to be expected. I did what Dr. Matt on YouTube suggested to see if the blade and spine are straight by doing what he refers to as the “tap & wiggle test” on a granite surface which I’m lucky enough to have as a counter top on my bathroom vanity and both the spine and blade seem to be perfectly straight which is a good start. So with that I’ve decided to simply try and sharpen/hone the edge with an 8K Shapton stone and finish with a Naniwa 12K stone or the ILR stone (the ILR stone is still way up in air yet), but I’ll see what transpires. I figure if worse comes to worse and I don’t get an extremely sharp edge nothing lost and no damage to the blade and I’ll then simply start from the beginning by establishing a new bevel (Super 88 tape on the spine) and starting with the 5K Zwilling glass stone that I happen to have and progress my way up with to the 8K and finish with the 12K. I’ll let you know how it all turns out whether its a failure or success. Only way to learn is by trying. ;)
 
Dovo “factory bevels” are all over the map. You will make your life easier if you find out first the bevel angle and if the bevels are flat before you start grinding away steel blind.

Ink the bevels and do a single light lap on the 12k. This will tell you how to hone the razor.

More than likely, you can easily re-set the bevel on the 8k with a single layer of tape. If you remove most of the bevel, especially at the edge, with the Sharpie test, a layer of tape will easily re-set the bevel on the 12k.

It is questionable if your ILR will improve your 12k edge, it will improve a 12k edge or not. Inexpensive slates rarely produce a bevel and edge finer than 6k.

So, test shave the razor with the 12k, then hone on the ILR and see if the shaving edge is improved.

If not, no big deal, once the bevels are flat, (the bevels are fully set, flat, in the correct bevel angle and bevels meeting fully) you can easily erase the ILR bevels and edge in 20-40 laps on the 12k.

From an ILR, you do not need to re-set the bevel on anything lower than an 8 or 12k.

Google (My Second Try at Honing). This was an old post made by a new honer. It was the second razor he had ever honed. The post has great micrographs that he took, at each stone to document his progress.

If you just make your bevels look like his bevel at each stone in the progression you will get great shaving edges.
 
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