Recommend a stone/grit for my father's straight razor

[millertime150]

My father wants to get into shaving with a straight razor. He acquired a mint condition one. He brought it to show his barber (who no longer shaves customers) and he said it doesn't look like it was used much/at all. The barber also gave him a fine honing stone for straight razors. I can't recall the name but I know the company no longer makes these and it is probably about 25 years old. It is also on the small side maybe about 5-6".


My father wants a bigger stone to touch up has razor. While he says his razors looks sharp and feels sharp, he wishes it were a bit sharper.

Right now he mainly wants a stone that is bigger and can make touch up a slightly dull razor. He probably will only buy one stone. He also has a strop with green veritas honing compound on it.

 

[holli4pirating]

I'm going to guess that your father was given a barber hone?

At the moment, my go to recommendation for a finishing hone is the Naniwa 12k.

 

[millertime150]

I'm going to guess that your father was given a barber hone?

At the moment, my go to recommendation for a finishing hone is the Naniwa 12k.

Yes you are correct. Hey thinks it is too small. Do you know what barber hones usually run as far as grit?

I also believe it is a waterstone barber hone.

 

[holli4pirating]

Barber hones tend to be around 10k, but no one really knows.

 

[forum9]

Honing sounds easy but it isn’t always so simple.

Your father needs to look at the edge with a magnifying glass. A 10x jewellers loupe is perfect. The blade edge needs to be a perfect V shape, flat on both sides. If it is curved like a U shape, the bevel or V shape needs to be re established. The Veritas on your fathers strop has a habit of turning the V into a U. V’s shave and U’s don’t.

Unfortuneately, the hones your father has won’t do this job. The barbers hone he has will be about 10,000 grit and the Veritas is 50,000 grit. To establish a bevel requires much lower grits and maybe more than one hone.

800 to 1000 grit establishes the bevel.
4000 to 6000 grit sharpens the new bevel.
8000 to 12000 (and higher) polishes the sharp edge to make it smooth.

The hones and the Veritas on the strop your father has are both types of polishing hones.

I hope that helps.

 

[millertime150]

Honing sounds easy but it isn’t always so simple.

Your father needs to look at the edge with a magnifying glass. A 10x jewellers loupe is perfect. The blade edge needs to be a perfect V shape, flat on both sides. If it is curved like a U shape, the bevel or V shape needs to be re established. The Veritas on your fathers strop has a habit of turning the V into a U. V’s shave and U’s don’t.

Unfortuneately, the hones your father has won’t do this job. The barbers hone he has will be about 10,000 grit and the Veritas is 50,000 grit. To establish a bevel requires much lower grits and maybe more than one hone.

800 to 1000 grit establishes the bevel.
4000 to 6000 grit sharpens the new bevel.
8000 to 12000 (and higher) polishes the sharp edge to make it smooth.

The hones and the Veritas on the strop your father has are both types of polishing hones.

I hope that helps.

I will have him look through a loupe to see if it is a perfect V. If it is a V but just needs to be sharpened, what would you recommend? What about a 4k/8k combo Norton and then he can finish up with his barber if necessary.

 

[Chimensch]

The barbers hone isn't too small. It's exactly the right size and your dad should learn to use it. All he needs to do is use an X stroke, starting at the heel and ending at the toe, as he pushes the blade forward.

 

[holli4pirating]

Hone size is personal preference.

 

[Chimensch]

Hone size is personal preference.

Sure it is, if you hone. What we have here is a case of a guy who knows nothing about honing, looks at it and says, "it's too small". You can't accept every silly thing that someone says out of ignorance as "personal preference".

 

[LarryAndro]

I too think your father should learn to use the barbers hone, (if that is what it is.) Let's say he buys a Naniwa 12K, or something like it, and after awhile he'll be worrying about lapping it (whether he needs to lap it or not.) More money.

I'm just not sure it is necessary.

 

[holli4pirating]

Sure it is, if you hone. What we have here is a case of a guy who knows nothing about honing, looks at it and says, "it's too small". You can't accept every silly thing that someone says out of ignorance as "personal preference".

Or maybe he tried a few passes and found it uncomfortably small. Who knows, right?

My post about size being personal preference was actually a response to you saying a barber hone is not too small/the perfect size. I don't like their size; that is my personal preference.

 

[forum9]

I will have him look through a loupe to see if it is a perfect V. If it is a V but just needs to be sharpened, what would you recommend? What about a 4k/8k combo Norton and then he can finish up with his barber if necessary.

If it is a V, what he has should be perfectly adequate.

He needs to use a very light touch on the hone. He can add liquid soap to the hones surface (with a bit of water). The razor will suck down onto the hone when it has achieved the maximum that the stone will give.

He should then move onto the green sided strop and do a maximum 10 light return strokes. He should then move to the leather and do about 50 light strokes.

That should do it.

The razor should cut arm hairs or at least it should nik the tops off a few when he has finished on the stone. If it doesn’t he is probably pressing too hard when honing.

 

[Chimensch]

Or maybe he tried a few passes and found it uncomfortably small. Who knows, right?

My post about size being personal preference was actually a response to you saying a barber hone is not too small/the perfect size. I don't like their size; that is my personal preference.

But you could use one to touch-up a razor if you had to. I don't like 3"-wide hones, but I could use one if I had to. Let's not overanalyze this thing. The dad doubted that the barbers hone was big enough to sharpen the razor when we would both agree that it was designed for that. Your, or my, personal preference is not the issue. I respect the right of anyone who hones to choose the tools that they prefer. That is obviously not the case with the dad. Let me put it another way: I was a salesman for 25 years. One of the first things you learn is that a customer's "objection", such as "the hone is too small" is often really a question, "is the hone too small?" that the salesman is expected to answer. That's how I took it and my response would have been, "no it's not too small, it's just right". I would never have presumed to say (which is the way you took it) "all honers should use this size hone". Can we be friends now?

 

[holli4pirating]

But you could use one to touch-up a razor if you had to. I don't like 3"-wide hones, but I could use one if I had to. Let's not overanalyze this thing. The dad doubted that the barbers hone was big enough to sharpen the razor when we would both agree that it was designed for that. Your, or my, personal preference is not the issue. I respect the right of anyone who hones to choose the tools that they prefer. That is obviously not the case with the dad. Let me put it another way: I was a salesman for 25 years. One of the first things you learn is that a customer's "objection", such as "the hone is too small" is often really a question, "is the hone too small?" that the salesman is expected to answer. That's how I took it and my response would have been, "no it's not too small, it's just right". I would never have presumed to say (which is the way you took it) "all honers should use this size hone". Can we be friends now?

The quote is "Hey thinks it is too small." There is no mention of why he thinks this; there is nothing that says he thinks it is to small to hone a razor. It sounds to me like you are interpreting what was said and applying your own past experiences. There is nothing wrong with that; I am trying to take the statement at face value.

I could do a lot of things if I had to, but that doesn't mean I choose to do them.

 

[Sputnik]

Holli, by the way, would you recommend I spend a bit of money and replace my Chinese 12K with Naniwa 12K? If so, what are the main advantages?

I'm going to guess that your father was given a barber hone?

At the moment, my go to recommendation for a finishing hone is the Naniwa 12k.

 

[holli4pirating]

Results wise, I can't say - I have never really tested the two against each other. I pefer the Naniwas because it requires less strokes, which means less time and less chance for one bad stroke. The Naniwa is, however, more expensive. It will also need periodic lapping; the C12k will probably never need to be lapped a second time. My recommendation is based on my preferences, namely less strokes, less time, consistant results.

 

[Sputnik]

Holli, thank you! I appreciate it. By the way, is there a way you can post your current honing procedure, if it is not a closely-guarded secret? For example, mine goes like this: Establish a bevel on N1K, however many strokes it takes; move to N4K, do 10 strokes; move to N8K, do 20 strokes; move to C12K, do 40 strokes. Strop on leather for no less than 80 strokes. Shave. [Stroke is defined as moving the razor on a stone/strop back and forth once. The spine is taped with one layer of PV electrical tape, except, of course, for stropping. N is for Norton, C for Chinese.]

Results wise, I can't say - I have never really tested the two against each other. I pefer the Naniwas because it requires less strokes, which means less time and less chance for one bad stroke. The Naniwa is, however, more expensive. It will also need periodic lapping; the C12k will probably never need to be lapped a second time. My recommendation is based on my preferences, namely less strokes, less time, consistant results.

 

[holli4pirating]

Holli, thank you! I appreciate it. By the way, is there a way you can post your current honing procedure, if it is not a closely-guarded secret? For example, mine goes like this: Establish a bevel on N1K, however many strokes it takes; move to N4K, do 10 strokes; move to N8K, do 20 strokes; move to C12K, do 40 strokes. Strop on leather for no less than 80 strokes. Shave. [Stroke is defined as moving the razor on a stone/strop back and forth once. The spine is taped with one layer of PV electrical tape, except, of course, for stropping. N is for Norton, C for Chinese.]

I'll work on a little writeup and stick it up later tonight (probably... timelines get fuzzy...)

 

[Sputnik]

Great! I'm looking forward to it.

I'll work on a little writeup and stick it up later tonight (probably... timelines get fuzzy...)

 

[MajorDomo]

a little late to the party, but did he ever post his honing procedure?