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please identify an Old Type Gillette

I´ve found this Old Type. I´ve never seen a Old Type with Gillette on the handle. About the SN he must from 1920, but I believe with the logo inside the head he must be older. Has somebody an idea?
 

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Here you go again, turning up razors we've not seen before. I have never seen the Gillette on the handle either.

That date code KCC? That is a new one on me as well. Do you know where that one was produced?

That is an early Diamond pattern as it has the arrow through.......
 
Here you go again, turning up razors we've not seen before. I have never seen the Gillette on the handle either.

That date code KCC? That is a new one on me as well. Do you know where that one was produced?

That is an early Diamond pattern as it has the arrow through.......

Maybe the SN is K00, but I´m very confused about this razor. There are no other informations on the razor. He comes in this case:
 
Maybe the SN is K00, but I´m very confused about this razor. There are no other informations on the razor. He comes in this case:

It could be K00 but it would be an odd wear pattern if it were.
It's to early for a British set. The markings on the bottom of the case are also unlike any that I have seen. The snap case is indicative of the later versions but those generally came with the bold "Gillette" on the inner cover.
 
Wow. First I've seen with zeros before numbers on a serial number too.

Can't make out much of the text on the underside of the case, but I suspect your answer lies partially there. When it says "Limited License", the inference is that it was produced somewhere other than by Gillette, under a license agreement. This should probably indicate another country aside from the US. What were the earliest British Gillettes, and how were they marked? Perhaps another country, but also since it seems to be lacking a patent number, almost certainly not US.
 
It could be K00 but it would be an odd wear pattern if it were.
It's to early for a British set. The markings on the bottom of the case are also unlike any that I have seen. The snap case is indicative of the later versions but those generally came with the bold "Gillette" on the inner cover.

Not too early at all. The British factory was opened around 1907 I think and the Diamond logo didn't come out until 1908. I have seen writing on the bottom of the case like this. It is standard for early British sets. You can't read it very well on this case but the top line says: "The owner of Patent 28763 of 1902...". That is the British Pat. number and the British Pat. year.

Buttons were used on cases since 1906 after the latch cases went out of style. I have never notices the bold "Gillette". I will keep my eye out for that.
 
Not too early at all. The British factory was opened around 1907 I think and the Diamond logo didn't come out until 1908. I have seen writing on the bottom of the case like this. It is standard for early British sets. You can't read it very well on this case but the top line says: "The owner of Patent 28763 of 1902...". That is the British Pat. number and the British Pat. year.

Buttons were used on cases since 1906 after the latch cases went out of style. I have never notices the bold "Gillette". I will keep my eye out for that.

The American Safety Razor company was re-named Gillette in 1902.

The first overseas manufacturing operation was established in Paris in 1905
The London "Gillette" Sales office was also opened in 1905.

The Diamond trademark is was adopted to facilitate imprinting directly on products in 1908

The Leicester, England plant was not established until 1909.

This above information is from a Chronology written by the Gillette Company that covers 1895 Thur 1993. This report was handed directly to me by the former Gillette Plant Manager (So. Boston) from 1956 to 1996.

I was also given the Annual Reports from 1956 Thru 1996
 
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I recently received my first big fellow, made in Canada. It also has gillette on the handle, but written horizontally not vertically like yours, and is also in a different typeface, with some other words that I cannot make out.
 
The American Safety Razor company was re-named Gillette in 1902.

The first overseas manufacturing operation was established in Paris in 1905
The London "Gillette" Sales office was also opened in 1905.

The Diamond trademark is was adopted to facilitate imprinting directly on products in 1908

The Leicester, England plant was not established until 1909.

This above information is from a Chronology written by the Gillette Company that covers 1895 Thur 1993. This report was handed directly to me by the former Gillette Plant Manager (So. Boston) from 1956 to 1996.

I was also given the Annual Reports from 1956 Thru 1996

Very nice information.

Here is a british set with a script logo:
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here is another:
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I have seen shippers from the UK (1 guinea price tag) which don't have any diamond arrow markings on them and match the design of shippers that were used with US Gillette around the 1906-1908 period. Point is, Gillette England probably made that set that Achim has with the Diamond Arrow tag in the case.

As for the patents (the following information is from the book "Before Gillette" by Robert Waits):
The first US patent 775134 was filed on Dec 3 1901 and wasn't issued until Nov 15 1904.
The second US patent 775135 was filed on May 24 1904 and was issued with the first patent on Nov 15 1904.
The first British patent 28763 was applied for on Dec 30 1902 and was amended on Sep 4 1903.

The US patent office registers the date the patent was issued; that is why you see "Pat. Nov. 15 '04" stamped on all the razors.

The British patent office registers the date the patent was applied for. So all British made old types have "Brit. Pat. No 28763 of 02" stamped on them.
 
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this is a very interesting investigation that is being led here. And to think, people in the other forums are talking about how to keep their cream warm.... :lol:
 
this is a very interesting investigation that is being led here. And to think, people in the other forums are talking about how to keep their cream warm.... :lol:


I too read with great interest this kind of thread. I also have written about keeping my lather warm. Funny!
 
The pictures you are showing are from Achims site.....

The script Gillette is what I was refering to as Bold...

Something is very wrong with someones info. My info comes directly from Gillette so how could there be razors manufactured and date coded before there was a plant to make them.

Could it be we have been assuming the info we have all know is incorrect?

Could it be that Gillette does not know their own history?
 
The pictures you are showing are from Achims site.....

The script Gillette is what I was refering to as Bold...

Something is very wrong with someones info. My info comes directly from Gillette so how could there be razors manufactured and date coded before there was a plant to make them.

Could it be we have been assuming the info we have all know is incorrect?

Could it be that Gillette does not know their own history?

I don't know. The company probably doesn't know its history very well. I have read documents from King Gillette himself which disagree with recounts of early company history from William Nickerson (founding engineer who developed the Gillette razor and blades). Here is something to think about: These two pages are from an original Gillette catalog which was printed in late 1908 or early 1909. The forward notes the introduction of the new line of Pocket Editions, the introduction of "known the world over" and states they have operating factories in the US, UK, France, Germany, and Canada. Also, pictures of the factories.
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I'm sure that if the UK factory was up and running by the time the new diamond arrow logo was introduced, the UK factory probably processed a few thousand razors sets with older Gillette logos, extra parts, etc.
 
I saw this on ebay, with an incorrect razor. The writing is clear enough to read the whole paragraph though.
 

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R

romsitsa

Hello Achim,

is there a small Gillette inscription on the lower smooth ring of the handle and on the inner tube?

Adam
 
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