Over Lathering.

[Kenno]

Over lathering,

In trying to achieve the perfect “looking” lather I believe one can do more harm than good to their lather. A picture of nice looking lather can be very deceptive and in trying to reach that nice looking lather one can take too long and ruin their lather. I’m no scientist but something happens when you over lather and I think for one the lather can dry out if you take too long, also air can enter the lather and the brush can absorb the water and leave your face. Water can evaporate and leave your lather and face dry. I know it’s hard to stop when you think the lather doesn’t look ready, especially when your used to those nice pictures of those lathers with their nice peaks but try not to reach that and see how it goes. My brush lather (I do face lather) gets more full and looks like the pictures with the little peaks of lather at the third pass of my shave, in this way I am getting the most out of the water for my shaves before it has a chance to evaporate or be absorbed by the brush and work its way down to the bottom of the brush. Also when you swirl with the your brush for a long time air is also slowly drying the lather with each swirl which is also making you loose water, similar to blowing on your lather or water which when done for 3 minutes will remove water and dry the lather. There is a vacuum of air created around the brush when swirling to create lather.

What I do is soak the brush bristles down or at right angles under water till it becomes heavy, let it drain on its own, no squeeze/shake or flick till there are intermittent drips. Then lightly swirl on the soap for 30sec or so, wet my face and gently start to lather my face so as to not drop too much water and pick up the pace and pressure slightly after 20 sec or so. I do this on my face for only 30 seconds to 1 minute not longer, till there is an even layer of lather on my face, not the thick looking Santa Claus stuff but an even coat on my face. I will still see some 2 day stubble and that’s ok and no need to look for the peaks on your face or brush at this stage or at all. After the first pass wet your face and reapply the brush, you can put a little bit more pressure with the brush but not too much now as the soap has absorbed some water and will not escape the brush and flick around. For the second pass don't lather for TOO long either, no more than 30 sec is fine. At the end of this second pass the brush will have more lather and start looking more full with lather. For the third pass same principles apply. I do this with all my soaps/creams and also find I can use the same razor blade many more times now.

Soaps were made to help us shave quicker not slower. They weren't made so you have to spend 3-5 minutes building lather for your first pass! I like to take my time shaving but over lathering is doing more harm than good.

Focus on what your face looks like after a pass not the brush or lather. Is your face nice and wet AFTER a pass or is it dry? Who cares what the brush/lather looks like if your face is dry and the shave not smooth? Funny thing is your brush can look wet and your face dry after a pass because you spent so much time looking for that perfect looking brush lather with that nice little Mount Vesuvius peak.

A picture doesn’t always tell the whole story. Don't over lather!

 

[nav]

This has been my experience too but thought it couldn't be right so never posted about it.

I find the optimal time for me is about a minute of face lathering which includes 2-3 dips in water to add to the lather. If I go over this, I find my face is DRY following a pass which is basically what you are saying...and this ofcourse is counter-productive to the "wet" shaving purpose.

 

[Kenno]

This has been my experience too but thought it couldn't be right so never posted about it.

seems strange i know but ever since i stopped over lathering all my soaps are great. thought cella was an ok soap but know its great, same goes for the rest of my soaps.

 

[Jethro1984]

I use creams but that could be my problem. I whip the lather an awful lot to the point of it becoming runny because I have to add more and more water. I think part of the issue is the brush is just worn out (2 year old Tweezerman) and the breech sort of stays open. It has never built lather particularly well but I have noticed it's suffering more and more.

 

[TAM340R]

+1
every time I m trying to achieve a dense covering lather my razor does not glide....
When my lather is thinner, I can see some stubble, I m having a slick nice shave.
I thought I was unable to achieve a good lather ,like the ones on the pictures, AND a nice shave....
Thank I m running now to the bathroom and will be a happy shaver

Tam

 

[Kenno]

+1
every time I m trying to achieve a dense covering lather my razor does not glide....
When my lather is thinner, I can see some stubble, I m having a slick nice shave.
I thought I was unable to achieve a good lather ,like the ones on the pictures, AND a nice shave....
Thank I m running now to the bathroom and will be a happy shaver

Tam

i love when it glides, can go over the same spot without lather.

 

[Jethro1984]

Tried your method this morning Kenno. Great idea. My lather was a bit drier at inital mix but still had peaks and I got pretty good glide. I never seem to get decent glide in my chin and jaw area though and going against the grain at all in these areas results in irritation. I will continue to perfect this technique of lathering.

By the way, I had been spending 3-4 minutes lathering before and slowly adding water. Today I mixed for about 1.5 minutes and it came out better. Tomorrow i'll aim for 1 minute and add water faster.

 

[cymric]

What a strange story.

For one thing, evaporation doesn't happen that fast unless the weather is dry and hot. But there's a sink full of watery goodness in front of you if you think the lather is too dry. Why then rush yourself to the point of putting soggy crud on your face? Second, a brush is not a separation device. It has no inherent preference for water; it is merely capillary action hoovering up whatever is available. And at some point it is simply full, it isn't a black hole or something. So I would think that it is far easier to simply make more lather to fill up its nether regions rather than act like a drill sergeant to lather as quickly as possible. More lather also means that it better able to protect itself from drying out as water vapour has to move through a thicker layer. Third, air is an important ingredient of lather, especially in the form of small bubbles. This is what gives lather its creamy feel, and provides the cushion and glide. Lather needs time to be prepared due to the limited amount of force brush hairs are able to exert on it. (Basically: think of a hair slicing an air bubble into two smaller bubbles which are then immediately covered with soap so that they don't coalesce. If the bubbles are too small for the hair to slice, they will just be moved about instead, and not be made smaller.) Why deny yourself the comfort of quality lather which would form if you took a minute or two more to build?

Really weird story indeed.

 

[gull]

I dunno. When I face lather I like to spend my time working the stuff in.

 

[BlackBard]

Over lathering, under lathering. What a concept.

As a confirmed face latherer, my only comment is that one should "lather," that is, build lather just until it is right. If one were to "over lather" one would simply be doing it wrong and the lather will not be right. If one were to "under lather" one would also be doing it wrong.

The OP was a great example of over-thinking a simple process, IMHO.

Remember, however, YMMV.

 

[Jethro1984]

Well I have noticed that if I over whip my lather it can become too airy and it dries out on my face. If I add water, it helps but it continues to thin out. I think the whole point is that the more you whip the lather the more airy and bubbly it becomes (even if it doesn't look that way) and therefore it breaks down on your face.

But this is via bowl lathering. I used to exclusively face lather and I didn't notice this as much as all the mixing is taking place on the face.

 

[kingfisher]

Well I have noticed that if I over whip my lather it can become too airy and it dries out on my face. If I add water, it helps but it continues to thin out. I think the whole point is that the more you whip the lather the more airy and bubbly it becomes (even if it doesn't look that way) and therefore it breaks down on your face.

But this is via bowl lathering. I used to exclusively face lather and I didn't notice this as much as all the mixing is taking place on the face.

I think that whipping the brush around like you are trying to make whipped cream with a whisk causes the introduction too much air and large bubbles that are detrimental to the quality of the lather. IME, building the lather more gently produces a better result.

 

[Perkus]

After reading a number or posts on lather, I would like to suggest the brush is quite important both when it comes to the size of air bubbles created and the way it is used to create lather.

I use a silvertip brush that I prefer using on the soap for a long time, until I get that creamy lather, then just lightly paint it onto my face.

I tried using a porcelain bowl to mix a nice lather, but it seems harder somehow. On the soap is effortless.

I guess with a harder brush, I might go for rubbing the soap in harder, directly onto the grain.

Every man for himself, I guess.

 

[_JP_]

The lather needs to sit on the beard for a couple of minutes to soften it. I don't see why sounding that time or longer working the lather is a problem. At least not for me.

 

[Pkrankow]

I use creams but that could be my problem. I whip the lather an awful lot to the point of it becoming runny because I have to add more and more water. I think part of the issue is the brush is just worn out (2 year old Tweezerman) and the breech sort of stays open. It has never built lather particularly well but I have noticed it's suffering more and more.

Get a new brush then. Omega boar are excellent and make that tweezerman feel like wire for the same coin.

Phil

 

[kingfisher]

Get a new brush then. Omega boar are excellent and make that tweezerman feel like wire for the same coin.

Phil

+1. Best thing I ever did was switch from a Tweezerman badger brush to an Omega boar.

 

[Kenno]

Over lathering, under lathering. What a concept.

As a confirmed face latherer, my only comment is that one should "lather," that is, build lather just until it is right. If one were to "over lather" one would simply be doing it wrong and the lather will not be right. If one were to "under lather" one would also be doing it wrong.

The OP was a great example of over-thinking a simple process, IMHO.

Remember, however, YMMV.

on the contrary, my "process" is much more simple, faster and better than adding 1 or 2 drops at a time to build lather. my explanation of the process was to see if i had any kind of evidence, scientific or what to back my claim.

i'm sure if you wanted you could over analyze/think your process?

the actual lathering is very simple.

many people ask when is the lather right, then you see pics of brushes full of lather with nice little peaks or faces that look like santa claus. well i say the lather is right when it shaves right, not when it looks right.

 

[Kenno]

The lather needs to sit on the beard for a couple of minutes to soften it. I don't see why sounding that time or longer working the lather is a problem. At least not for me.

i don't think it need to sit on the beard for a couple of minutes. time spent building lather is time enough.

What a strange story.

For one thing, evaporation doesn't happen that fast unless the weather is dry and hot. But there's a sink full of watery goodness in front of you if you think the lather is too dry. Why then rush yourself to the point of putting soggy crud on your face? Second, a brush is not a separation device. It has no inherent preference for water; it is merely capillary action hoovering up whatever is available. And at some point it is simply full, it isn't a black hole or something. So I would think that it is far easier to simply make more lather to fill up its nether regions rather than act like a drill sergeant to lather as quickly as possible. More lather also means that it better able to protect itself from drying out as water vapour has to move through a thicker layer. Third, air is an important ingredient of lather, especially in the form of small bubbles. This is what gives lather its creamy feel, and provides the cushion and glide. Lather needs time to be prepared due to the limited amount of force brush hairs are able to exert on it. (Basically: think of a hair slicing an air bubble into two smaller bubbles which are then immediately covered with soap so that they don't coalesce. If the bubbles are too small for the hair to slice, they will just be moved about instead, and not be made smaller.) Why deny yourself the comfort of quality lather which would form if you took a minute or two more to build?

Really weird story indeed.

the brush has much better water inherent preference than the skin on your face. there is no watery crud? i doubt air bubbles give lather its creaminess?
the only thing i deny my lather is too much time to ruin.