R
romsitsa
Hello, it’s not a serial but a Gebrauchsmuster number (somewhat similar to a patent).
Adam
Adam
Otto Roth and the Rotbart razor company
- Thread starter Jake
- Start date
Yes, my mistake. ;-)
R
romsitsa
Just saw that you are from Germany. Ask the archives in Solingen, they should have plenty of material about Hugo Büchner.
Adam
Adam
That is nearly my current Rotbart/Mond-Extra collection. Two boxes are missing.
The razors are (first photo, top to bottom):
1) A mix between a thick head Old Type and a NEW, i.e. it is an Old Type head with blade guides like in a NEW. It has the third logo in the last photo, a very plain ROTBART MOND-EXTRA. On the top of the base plate there is additionally to the brand names a "DRP angem." and a "DRGM".
2) A Single Ring with a thick Old Type head. Logo is the fourth in the last photo with a simple version of the looped Rotbart logo without any Mond-Extra. This is the only one, which does not have stamped ROTBART MOND-EXTRA on the top of the base plate.
3) A Single Ring with the normal thin head. Logo is the fancy Rotbart/Mond-Extra (second in last photo). The screw handle is interchangeable with that of the Single Ring, but looks slightly different.
4) Similar to the previous one, but a smaller handle. The box depicts a three-hole blade.
The missing boxes are:
- No.3 came in a printed metal box similar to the one shown here, but displaying razor No.1.
- No.1 came in a standard set metal box like it was used by Gilette with two blade boxes.
I guess many of these boxes are probably not the genuine boxes. No. 4 is to small for its box. No. 3 has a different depiction. The other two might be or might be not the genuine box.
I could not find the TRUMPF logo on the brown box anywhere.
My guess is, that No. 3 and 4 are probably the oldest from the end of the 1920s. The I believe comes No. 1, which could be from the beginning of the NEW area, i.e. the beginning of the 1930s. The newest is probably No. 2, which I would date to the second halve of the 1930s or after WWII, because I saw a TTO with that same logo and it is for sure no war quality.
The razors are (first photo, top to bottom):
1) A mix between a thick head Old Type and a NEW, i.e. it is an Old Type head with blade guides like in a NEW. It has the third logo in the last photo, a very plain ROTBART MOND-EXTRA. On the top of the base plate there is additionally to the brand names a "DRP angem." and a "DRGM".
2) A Single Ring with a thick Old Type head. Logo is the fourth in the last photo with a simple version of the looped Rotbart logo without any Mond-Extra. This is the only one, which does not have stamped ROTBART MOND-EXTRA on the top of the base plate.
3) A Single Ring with the normal thin head. Logo is the fancy Rotbart/Mond-Extra (second in last photo). The screw handle is interchangeable with that of the Single Ring, but looks slightly different.
4) Similar to the previous one, but a smaller handle. The box depicts a three-hole blade.
The missing boxes are:
- No.3 came in a printed metal box similar to the one shown here, but displaying razor No.1.
- No.1 came in a standard set metal box like it was used by Gilette with two blade boxes.
I guess many of these boxes are probably not the genuine boxes. No. 4 is to small for its box. No. 3 has a different depiction. The other two might be or might be not the genuine box.
I could not find the TRUMPF logo on the brown box anywhere.
My guess is, that No. 3 and 4 are probably the oldest from the end of the 1920s. The I believe comes No. 1, which could be from the beginning of the NEW area, i.e. the beginning of the 1930s. The newest is probably No. 2, which I would date to the second halve of the 1930s or after WWII, because I saw a TTO with that same logo and it is for sure no war quality.
Attachments
R
romsitsa
Mond-Extra, hard to put a date on it, I guess between ~1918 (Mond changed to Mond-Extra) and 1925 (Büchner-Roth merger).
Is somewhat smaller and has different proportions than a Rotbart Mond-Extra, and the crimp is star shaped.
Had to doctor the head.
Adam
Is somewhat smaller and has different proportions than a Rotbart Mond-Extra, and the crimp is star shaped.
Had to doctor the head.
Adam
Gorgeous sets posted here, guys!!
Thought I’d also put my 3 Rotbart sets in here too to show the breadth of the Rotbart line - the black handle 9000 travel set, the RFB version and the special-never-seen-before-or-since silver plated Rotbart ‘Pineapple’
Thought I’d also put my 3 Rotbart sets in here too to show the breadth of the Rotbart line - the black handle 9000 travel set, the RFB version and the special-never-seen-before-or-since silver plated Rotbart ‘Pineapple’
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R
romsitsa
Hello, found this gem on the internet, it has some very interesting aspects.
The base plate is not matching, but the razor and case in the ad are pretty similar and the currency is Mark so it's pre 1924 and made by Hugo Büchner.
Luna was most likely changed to Mond somewhen after 1913.
It's serial numbered, although I have no clue what the number means (also the DRGM number is a mistery).
Seemingly Büchner used a safety bar much-much earlier than the 1924 Schlüssler patent (I previously tought his patent was the first) and switched back to a comb design for whatever reason.
Also interesting is that the advertisment praises the flat head desing as: no bend in head - not breaking blade, looking at you, Gillette.
The base plate is not matching, but the razor and case in the ad are pretty similar and the currency is Mark so it's pre 1924 and made by Hugo Büchner.
Luna was most likely changed to Mond somewhen after 1913.
It's serial numbered, although I have no clue what the number means (also the DRGM number is a mistery).
Seemingly Büchner used a safety bar much-much earlier than the 1924 Schlüssler patent (I previously tought his patent was the first) and switched back to a comb design for whatever reason.
Also interesting is that the advertisment praises the flat head desing as: no bend in head - not breaking blade, looking at you, Gillette.
Here's mine with comb:
R
romsitsa
Hello Richard, does yours have a Drgm or serial number?
Could the Drgm cover the safety bar?
Could the Drgm cover the safety bar?
Serial# 76581.
I find a number of patents for cornrazors, for bladesharpeners, and honing blades, and one for a shavette type device, so so far unknown.
I find a number of patents for cornrazors, for bladesharpeners, and honing blades, and one for a shavette type device, so so far unknown.
R
romsitsa
Depatisnet only list patents (DRP) “small patents” (DRGM) are not available online, as far as I know.
o yes, that's true of course, drgm-information up to 1930 or so was lost ...
Then the question would be: should Büchner have patented the safetybar, why not file for a true patent? Apparently, he did so for everything else ...
Then the question would be: should Büchner have patented the safetybar, why not file for a true patent? Apparently, he did so for everything else ...
R
romsitsa
I’d guess German paten protection wasn’t cheap and seemingly it’s an early razor of Büchner, maybe they didn’t want to invest too much. A protected design (as used by British razor makers) would have been sufficient to produce a bar razor without close competition.
Maybe so, however, he patented his cornrazor in several different countries (Germany included) in 1910.
R
romsitsa
The modell 1925 on the first page has a different DRGM number, while basically having the same design as this early one.
Without knowing how exactly a Gebruchsmuster works, looks like Büchner refiled the "patent"/design.
Based on this:
410899 is 1910.
Ps. Now that you mentioned it, Büchners Anticor patent (1908) could be the first safety bar razor design?
Without knowing how exactly a Gebruchsmuster works, looks like Büchner refiled the "patent"/design.
Based on this:
410899 is 1910.
Ps. Now that you mentioned it, Büchners Anticor patent (1908) could be the first safety bar razor design?
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R
romsitsa
Rotbart 5031 mittelschwer/medium weight aka. aluminum handle with zamak head, from the 50ies. Although the worst possible combination of materials (imho), this is the best and most ergonomic Roth&Büchner design (also imho).
Got also a closed comb Luna Extra from ebay. Both numbers are the same on mine. I think they are fake serial numbers to imitate the Gillette razor to give a more valuable appearance. Straightened the cap and will try a shave after my shower.
PS: Nope. it is not the same serial. It is the same razor.
PPS: The two pins on the cap are much to thin to fix the blade in the proper position.
PS: Nope. it is not the same serial. It is the same razor.
PPS: The two pins on the cap are much to thin to fix the blade in the proper position.
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Shaves very tuggy with a fresh blade. One of my least favorite razors.
R
romsitsa
Flat heads need a very different angle and can be still tuggy. Load it with injector blades if you have any, the razor will shine.
Don't have injector blades. Would probably need to buy them overseas.
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