Old Spice - Yesterday and Today

[WastedResources]

Shulton in America
William Lightfoot Schultz founded, Shulton, in 1934. Starting from nothing but knowledge of soap and a good reputation during the Depression, he convinced Bowery Savings Bank to give him workspace in their almost vacant building with a promise that he would pay rent if his business succeeded. Starting with soap, William and his son would eventually build a multi-million dollar company and introduce the eternally popular Old Spice.

Developed around a nautical, colonial theme, Old Spice for men was introduced in 1938. It's classic, spicy citrus sent with lingering powdery musk notes would prove to be timeless. The clipper ships used on the original packaging were the Grand Turk and the Friendship. Other ships used on Old Spice packaging include the Birmingham, Salem Wesley, and Hamilton.

Shulton would grow steadily over the next 30 years; developing Old Spice scented deodorants and soaps as well as other product lines. By 1970, Shulton's annual sales were $130 million. New products needed to be developed on a much larger scale, using much larger financial capital. Shulton would be sold to American Cyanamid to maintain its momentum.

In 1990, Shulton was purchased by Procter and Gamble in order to expand the brand and maintain its enviable market position. The logo was changed from the clipper ship to a yacht shortly thereafter. In 2001 Procter and Gamble licensed development and production of Old Spice in USA, Canada, and Puerto Rico to Universal Razor Industries. Packaging would be changed yet again in 2008. The glass bottles we know and love would become plastic. The gray stopper would now be red.


Shulton in India
In 1968, Shulton and Cosme Matias Menezes (CMM) founded Colfax Laboratories and begin manufacturing Old Spice in India. The following year, CMM took over marketing, distribution, and manufacturing of Old Spice in India. This relationship lasted through the sale of Shulton to American Cyanamid, and the Procter & Gamble acquisition. However, in 1993, Procter & Gamble took over all Shulton business along with marketing and distribution of Old Spice in India. Colfax Laboratories/CMM continued to manufacture Old Spice products.

In 1999, P&G gives marketing and distribution of Old Spice in India to Marico Industries, but the partnership is short lived. Menezes Cosmetics Private Ltd (MCPL), formerly CMM, approaches P&G in attempt to regain Old Spice. It works, and in December, 2002 MCPL inks a 10 year deal with P&G for the trademark and business of Old Spice in India only. By 2008, MCPL has also secured the territories of Africa and Russia.


Controversy:
In recent years, loyal fans of Old Spice have felt abandoned by Procter & Gamble, primarily because of packaging changes. Some people swear that Old Spice does not smell the same as it used to. When asked if the formula has changed, I received this response:

“The Classic cologne ingredients list has not changed – the only change was as you noted to the plastic bottle. All of our product research showed that the plastic bottle did not affect the smell of the cologne.”

I did notice that P&G said the “ingredient list” hasn’t changed. This is important because they did not say “recipe” or “formula”. Now, I’ve been using Old Spice aftershave since I borrowed my dad’s after my first slice. I’ve never purchased a bottle and said, “This is NOT Old Spice.” I do believe that ingredient sources and their qualities can change over a number of years, which could slightly alter a fragrance. I have not imported any MCPL Old Spice, but I would not be surprised if it had a slightly different scent. After all, their ingredients may come from a different source. I do not believe that they are using different recipes.

I requested clarification from P&G. I specifically asked whether the formula in use today is the original Shulton formula, and if the Old Spice produced by MCPL in India is the same as it is in the United States. I received the following answer:

“The Old Spice After Shave in Original received a name change in 2008, changing the name to Classic scent. There was no formula change to the actual product and the product passed all stability and perfume testing.”


Summary:
Our senses can play tricks on us. Our memories may become skewed. We believe what we want to believe. The Old Spice formula remains unchanged. There is only one recipe. Not all of you will be convinced. Some of you will believe there is a conspiracy. Go ahead and buy imported Old Spice and old stock, or buy the “compare to Old Spice” stuff at the dollar store if that’s what you like, but know that Old Spice is still the same. The only thing that has changed is our perception of an American icon.


Old Spice Timeline

• 1934 - The Shulton Company was founded by William Schultz.

• 1937 - Shulton releases Early American Old Spice for women

• 1938 – Shulton releases Old Spice for men

• 1968 - Colfax Laboratories is founded by Shulton PLC, UK and CMM, begins manufacturing Old Spice in India.

• 1969 – Shulton teams with Cosme Matias Menezes (CMM) for marketing, and distribution of Old Spice in India.

• 1970 - Shulton is sold to American Cyanamid. Shulton becomes their consumer products division.

• 1990 – Procter & Gamble purchases Old Spice from Shulton/American Cyanamid. The other Shulton products are sold as well. Breck goes to Dial. Pine-Sol goes to Clorox.

• 1992 – The clipper ship logo is replaced with a yacht

• 1993 – Procter & Gamble take over Shulton business worldwide, ending the marketing and distribution deal with the Menezes family. CMM continues to manufacture Old Spice.

• 1999 – Marico Industries obtains marketing and distribution rights for Old Spice in India

• 2001 – On Thursday April 12, 2001, Procter and Gamble licenses Old Spice to Universal Razor Industries. URI assumes responsibility for development and production of Old Spice in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico.

• 2002 – Procter & Gamble licenses the ‘Old Spice’ trademark and business to Menezes Cosmetics Private Ltd (MCPL), formerly CMM, the same group who introduced Old Spice to India, for 10 years only in India. This ends P&G’s deal with Marico. (MCPL now serves India, Africa, and Russia)

• 2008 – The original Old Spice scent is repackaged as "Classic Scent". The traditional glass bottles are replaced with plastic, grey stoppers with red.


References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Spice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cyanamid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breck_Shampoo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine-Sol
http://www.cr8on.com/shulton.html
http://www.pg.com/en_US/index.shtml
http://www.oldspice.com/blog/
http://marketingpractice.blogspot.com/2005/12/old-spice-death-of-icon.html
http://www.basenotes.com
http://www.elvinagroup.com/history.htm
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/p&g-to-license-old-spice-to-menezes/65056/
http://www.equitymaster.com/detail.asp?date=8/24/2002&story=1
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/pg-snaps-pactmarico/119441/
http://www.cmmgroup.in/index.htm
http://www.rediff.com/money/2002/apr/23old.htm
http://www.indiabizclub.com/qxzpmd/?q=;0tvoj0c0w3j002aki
http://www.indiamarkets.com/imo/industry/drugs/drugsfea34.asp
http://www.experienceoldspice.ca/en/index.php

 

[Topgumby]

Well, pre-P&G Old Spice changed at least once when they dropped saccharine, so it's not like it was engraved in holy stone tablets.

Given the evidence perceived by my nose, postings by ClubmanRob, and the reliance I place on pronouncements by P&G, I'm still saying Classic Old Spice as it exists smells different than Shulton Era Old Spice. The formula could be the same...after all, MY formula is still the same, but I'm not what I was pre-1990 either!

The ingredients list for the knockoff products are essentially denatured alcohol, water, propylene glycol, and fragrance. Weasel wording would allow me to produce a product that had essential oil squeezed from hamsters and proclaim that "the formula has not changed".

I don't doubt that P&G spokespersons believe the stuff is the same, after all, it's "Classic Old Spice", ain't it? I also believe that a devoted base of trivia obsessed wetshavers is more likely to become obsessed over a slight variation that most of the general public would miss entirely, or simply not give a hoot in Hades over. Heck, most of the people making OS probably don't have as much interest in the history as some here do. They are engaged in the noble pastime of making a buck on a relatively cheap aftershave and cologne, and even those are tiny sidelines compared to the big bucks in deodorant sales, if I recall my reading on the market correctly.

The OP has a great, informative post with a superb timeline, but I'm going to follow my nose on this one.

 

[Baloosh]

I don't doubt that P&G spokespersons believe the stuff is the same, after all, it's "Classic Old Spice", ain't it? I also believe that a devoted base of trivia obsessed wetshavers is more likely to become obsessed over a slight variation that most of the general public would miss entirely, or simply not give a hoot in Hades over. Heck, most of the people making OS probably don't have as much interest in the history as some here do.

The OP has a great, informative post with a superb timeline, but I'm going to follow my nose on this one.

+1 on this one. I'm going to follow my nose as well, and, despite what a P&G corporate support email tech says, the stuff they're selling today ain't the same stuff they were selling when I was a kid.

Fortunately, there is still a LOT of Shulton Old Spice A/S splash and cologne available all over the 'bay... and at flea markets, estate sales, etc.

 

[Niles]

+1 on this one. I'm going to follow my nose as well, and, despite what a p&g corporate support email tech says, the stuff they're selling today ain't the same stuff they were selling when i was a kid.

Fortunately, there is still a lot of shulton old spice a/s splash and cologne available all over the 'bay... And at flea markets, estate sales, etc.

+2

 

[Leche]

Well I have the OS Lather Cream and original AS from India. AS is a glass bottle with a white stopper. I also have the current P&G AS, plastic bottle with red stopper. To me and my wife they are quite different.

The Indian stuff is sharper and spicier while the P&G is lighter and the floral notes are more dominate. Just my opinion.

 

[PIPS]

Props to the OP for this thread.

 

[wilsonent]

I too, have a small glass bottle of Indian OS and the current "Classic" in the plastic bottle. No question these scents differ. To me, the Indian version is more understated, more subtle, and less flowery. I do believe that sources of ingredients could explain the difference, but I doubt they are exactly the same formula.

 

[Don]

I just received a vintage bottle of Old Spice AS that I got as part of a winning auction, box included, bottle nearly full, gray stopper. Shulton is the name on the box and bottle, so I imagine it is pre-P&G takeover but post American Cyanamid as there is a bar code on the box. Only Shulton is mentioned on the box and bottle.

I do not have a current P&G bottle, but have sniffed the stuff in stores.

They do not smell the same to my nose. This bottle reminds me of what OS smelled like. YMMV

Thanks for this thread.

 

[Jaymo]

I have a Full bottle of Shulton OS that my dad gave me, and a full bottle of P&G OS that I bought, and they do not smell the same.

 

[MrMoJoe]

That P&G, in a fit of blind corporate greed, sacrificed the "Good" Old Spice that we remember from the good ole days, and changed it to appeal to a broader, changed, and less discriminating market has been implied and repeated over and over until it has become accepted as fact. The good ole days were better, and the Old Spice debacle is just another example of why.

Seriously though, we wet shavers tend to be a sentimental bunch, myself included; it's a big part of the appeal as to why we are all here. By all means, seek out and use what smells best to you (YMMV); when it comes to what I apply to my own face, I'm going with what my own nose tells me as opposed to what some knucklehead like me says on the internet. That's fine, but if the facts are important, then step back and take a deep breath; things may not be the way our senses tell us they are or the way we want them to be.

To WastedResources (the OP), I've been down this road before, contacted P&G, got the same response as you, and posted it here. All I can say is, don't get your hopes up as far as convincing anybody of anything; the verdict came in a long time ago.

 

[WastedResources]

To WastedResources (the OP), I've been down this road before, contacted P&G, got the same response as you, and posted it here. All I can say is, don't get your hopes up as far as convincing anybody of anything; the verdict came in a long time ago.

I don't intend to convince anyone of anything. I'm sure there are several gentlemen here who have extensive collections of OS, and I'm sure they would tell you that different bottles from different time periods smell different. I think that OS smells softer in the plastic bottle.

If people really want to be fair about it, they'll say the scent they like is the MCPL/Colfax Laboratories variety, but remember that P&G took over control of ALL Shulton business for a few years, giving them plenty of time to update operations.

The Original Shulton formula was gone before I was born. I just want the stuff my dad wore, and I like the OS you can buy at the drugstore. It's close enough for me. If I'm going to pay above market value and order aftershave off the internet, well I'm going to get something else.

What do you think about New Coke?

 

[MrMoJoe]

What do you think about New Coke?

Well, New Coke was just WRONG!

 

[The Nid Hog]

The Original Shulton formula was gone before I was born. I just want the stuff my dad wore, and I like the OS you can buy at the drugstore. It's close enough for me. If I'm going to pay above market value and order aftershave off the internet, well I'm going to get something else.

I think that this gets at the heart of the miscommunication between the OP and some of the responses. If the original Shulton formula was gone before you were born, maybe the stakes are different for you. For many of us, Old Spice became a suspect juice when they slapped the yacht on the jug, not just when they shifted to plastic. The late lamented ClubmanRob claimed that there were several reformulations:

The same thing happened to me. I called P&G years back to find out the reason behind a reformulation, which the woman denied. "Nope", I said, and proceeded to list the ingredient variances between the Schulton, Old P&G and the then current P&G. She put me on hold for a while and then wanted to know where I got my sources. "Chemical analysis" I replied.

I have no reason to doubt him, and my sense of the difference between the scent of various generations of Old Spice as well as the Ivy Club clones tends to confirm it to my satisfaction. Not to say that the difference is extreme--just enough to get under our skin.

What do you think about New Coke?

This is the key to the whole thing. Those of us who are unhappy with changes in Old Spice are not people who care much about New Coke. We're the people who are still mad that you can't find a good bottle of Moxie anymore.

 

[wazazzle]

I'm sure it helps keep shipping costs down via weight.... but man do i miss opening up a box and seeing a glass bottle.

 

[media]

Well I have the OS Lather Cream and original AS from India. AS is a glass bottle with a white stopper. I also have the current P&G AS, plastic bottle with red stopper. To me and my wife they are quite different.

The Indian stuff is sharper and spicier while the P&G is lighter and the floral notes are more dominate. Just my opinion.

+1

The Indian stuff smells much better. Spicier and not as powdery and floral.

I just bought a 100ml bottle from India today

 

[Wingnut]

WARNING:
Brief threadstealing ahead...​

Those of us who are unhappy with changes in Old Spice are not people who care much about New Coke. We're the people who are still mad that you can't find a good bottle of Moxie anymore.

Once again, I am amazed at your grasp of glaobal trivia. I thought I was the only guy left on earth who had actually drunk a bottle of Moxie.

End of threadstealing.
We now return you to the previously scheduled thread...​

 

[BCatl]

My understanding is that a lot of the scents have to be aged. Like wine.

Obviously, one way to increase profits would be to cut down the time you are aging the product.

Whatever happened to the scent, if anything, had to do with the bottom line I would guess. Anything these days to squeeze a dime out, no concern with tradition of any kind.

The big thing for a manufacturer of retail products today is shelf space. How much shelf space do they control? They want the customer to buy SOMETHING, and they figure the more mediocre stuff they can put up there, the more they can sell. It's a cynical, shortsighted way to do business in my opinion.

 

[HoratioCaine]

...a devoted base of trivia obsessed wetshavers...

Whom are you calling base?

 

[Topgumby]

Yesterday,
Shulton Old Spice smelled a certain way
Now P&G has stole my scent away
Old Spice was better, yesterday

Suddenly,
My favorite scent was bought by P&G,
Then they made it sweet and flowery
My Old Spice scent changed so suddenly

Why it had to change
I don't know, they didn't say
This plastic feels all wrong,
I'm a glass guy all the way

Yesterday,
Burley, Lime and Leather ruled the day,
Now it's Swagger the Bruce Campbell way
How I miss the stopper that was gray

The guys at P&G
Say it's made the same old way
Just forget that yacht
And that old stuff on Ebay.

So today,
That Ivy Club I splashed on smelled OK
It was just a dollar anyway
If they made cologne, it'd make my day

 

[polaar]

Here's a Shulton bottle that I found in my basement in a box of my Grandfather's stuff, and a my P&G bottle (pre-plastic) from a year or two ago. They do smell different, but I wonder if it is just a matter of freshness. The Shulton is much less pronounced and smells of vanilla and alcohol, the P&G gives off more spice & powder. I know that my wife's perfumes go off after a few years and she needs to get new; perhaps the same with after shave? A time machine could remove all doubt!