Old Spice from 1950-1956

[OkieStubble]

In regards to what I originally posted, it wasn't really about the smell of Old Spice, it was about the fact that Shulton stopped making it in 1970. Like every perfume ever made (especially the ones that have survived 50+ years), Old Spice has seen several reformulations over the decades and thus is subject to minor tweaks and changes from era to era. I regret that some vintages aren't as fresh as they could have been, which makes it difficult to detect variances, but find it amazing when a specimen is preserved well and yields surprising notes.

It's obvious by the history that American Cyanamid's practice of maintaining the company's basic formula (no cheapening of materials or drastic changes) was a wise decision, as it helped perpetuate the brand's market share until its sale to P&G twenty years later. But within those twenty years there were still some trends that suggested that the musk-heavy seventies might want a muskier OS, and the woodier (Luca Turin called it "Cigar Box") eighties masculine trend might want a sturdier "long-lasting" formula with prominent cinnamon and nutmeg elements, and so one has to wonder how much these eras guided the decision makers in making formula changes.

I realized this when I smelled the various vintages and started wondering why they all smelled a bit different from each other. But I still want to know what the very first era smelled like - 1940s (even late thirties) Old Spice! If I were ever to get my hands on that vintage I'll share it with you OkieStubble, that's something I want to discuss with a man with an equally good nose!

That's a date!

I have always been curious to get a whiff of Old Spice when it was marketed as a women's cologne!

 

[FarmerTan]

That's a date!

I have always been curious to get a whiff of Old Spice when it was marketed as a women's cologne!

Same.

Almost like traveling back in time to try a first generation Coke!

 

[FarmerTan]

Same.

Almost like traveling back in time to try a first generation Coke!

But probably without the cocaine! I don't need to try THAT at this late date....

 

[OkieStubble]

Same.

Almost like traveling back in time to try a first generation Coke!

I sure miss pulling out those small coke bottles, from those soda pop vending machines, where the pop selection was in a single vertical line with the small glass door you opened and shut. Remember those?

 

[FarmerTan]

I sure miss pulling out those small coke bottles, from those soda pop machines, where the pop selection was in a single vertical line with the small glass door you opened and shut. Remember those?

Yes I do.

The Fire Department where I live had one for forever, and back when my dad was in politics here I'd ride along to the fire department and he'd put a nickel in there, and we'd have to drink it there because he didn't want to pay for the deposit! Thanks for the fun memories!

We recently built a new, state of the art Facility...I wonder if that machine is there? Wow. It was ancient 45 years ago!

 

[Featherweight]

That's a date!

I have always been curious to get a whiff of Old Spice when it was marketed as a women's cologne!

Well that's all over eBay already. I'm referring to the formula for when it was first marketed to men, which is actually different from the first feminine Early American Old Spice, as Shulton tweaked it a bit for the masculine aftershave/cologne market in 1937. When I find that stuff you'll be the first to know!

 

[BigJ]

Just got a bottle of Old Spice that dates between 1950 and 1956. Beautiful stuff. I really appreciate Old Spice from when Shulton still made it. I always disliked that Shulton stopped making it in 1970, and then of course P&G took over in the nineties. Wish this formula could have trucked on through the 20th century and into the present day. Going back to the early fifties you can smell the quality. Does anyone have experience with this generation of vintage? Anyone ever smell 1940s Old Spice? Stopper #1?

+1! Shulton OS was better!! Period..

My experience started in the 60s and I only wish I could find some more!!

 

[Sofus]

Just got a bottle of Old Spice that dates between 1950 and 1956. Beautiful stuff. I really appreciate Old Spice from when Shulton still made it. I always disliked that Shulton stopped making it in 1970, and then of course P&G took over in the nineties. Wish this formula could have trucked on through the 20th century and into the present day. Going back to the early fifties you can smell the quality. Does anyone have experience with this generation of vintage? Anyone ever smell 1940s Old Spice? Stopper #1?

Where did you get that one? I can only imagine how rich it smells compared to the "whiff-and-it's-gone" from the recent years (30 or so...).

 

[Sofus]

But probably without the cocaine! I don't need to try THAT at this late date....

Bring back the real absinth instead!

 

[steveclarkus]

Just got a bottle of Old Spice that dates between 1950 and 1956. Beautiful stuff. I really appreciate Old Spice from when Shulton still made it. I always disliked that Shulton stopped making it in 1970, and then of course P&G took over in the nineties. Wish this formula could have trucked on through the 20th century and into the present day. Going back to the early fifties you can smell the quality. Does anyone have experience with this generation of vintage? Anyone ever smell 1940s Old Spice? Stopper #1?

I used the old stuff a lot however I found the scent to be somewhat overwhelming. I prefer the current OS as it it smells the same but with a toned down scent.

 

[Featherweight]

Where did you get that one? I can only imagine how rich it smells compared to the "whiff-and-it's-gone" from the recent years (30 or so...).

Ebay! Plenty of it available on there in some vintage form or another. Usually very few from this era but if you keep an eye out they show up here and there.

 

[OkieStubble]

This is a Limited Edition Old Spice bottle made in 1997.

If one looks on the back of the bottle, they will notice while it is distributed by Proctor & Gamble, it was still being made and bottled by Shulton.

This is why it says 1997 Shulton Inc. It appears to me, Shulton didn’t stop making Old Spice in 1970?

 

[Featherweight]

This is a Limited Edition Old Spice bottle made in 1997.

View attachment 1466032

If one looks on the back of the bottle, they will notice while it is distributed by Proctor & Gamble, it was still being made and bottled by Shulton.

This is why it says 1997 Shulton Inc. It appears to me, Shulton didn’t stop making Old Spice in 1970?

View attachment 1466035

CYANAMID IN PACT FOR SHULTON, INC. (Published 1970) - https://www.nytimes.com/1970/12/22/archives/cyanamid-in-pact-for-shulton-inc-chemical-producer-to-give-096.html

As I mentioned in the original post and/or earlier in the thread, American Cyanamid bought Shulton and took over operations, but retained the name of the brand to keep up public brand recognition ("Shulton" is what people expect to see on the back of the bottle, not "American Cyanamid") and then AC sold Shulton to Proctor & Gamble in 1990. Your bottle was made and distributed by P&G under their Shulton division of their portfolio (The Shulton Group), just as it continues to be made by P&G today. Only difference is now P&G doesn't bother associating the product with Shulton anymore, probably because in market testing it bears little to no effect on sales to print it on bottles.

Edit for further clarification: When American Cyanamid bought Shulton, they also bought the rights to the Shulton name. They filed all the Shulton products they decided to keep in production in their brand portfolio as "The Shulton Group." Again, it's the same as with Colgate putting "By Mennen" on Skin Bracer - even more flagrantly misleading, as that's right on the front of the label. Mennen hasn't made Skin Bracer in decades. But Colgate-Palmolive bought the rights to do that when they bought the Mennen line.

Cyanamid Agrees to Sell P&G Its Men's Fragrances Division - https://apnews.com/article/8931cb1c38ee01d4631be99e1554c2f4

 

[OkieStubble]

CYANAMID IN PACT FOR SHULTON, INC. (Published 1970) - https://www.nytimes.com/1970/12/22/archives/cyanamid-in-pact-for-shulton-inc-chemical-producer-to-give-096.html

As I mentioned in the original post and/or earlier in the thread, American Cyanamid bought Shulton and took over operations, but retained the name of the brand to keep up public brand recognition ("Shulton" is what people expect to see on the back of the bottle, not "American Cyanamid") and then AC sold Shulton to Proctor & Gamble in 1990. Your bottle was made and distributed by P&G under their Shulton division of their portfolio (The Shulton Group), just as it continues to be made by P&G today. Only difference is now P&G doesn't bother associating the product with Shulton anymore, probably because in market testing it bears little to no effect on sales to print it on bottles.

Edit for further clarification: When American Cyanamid bought Shulton, they also bought the rights to the Shulton name. They filed all the Shulton products they decided to keep in production in their brand portfolio as "The Shulton Group." Again, it's the same as with Colgate putting "By Mennen" on Skin Bracer - even more flagrantly misleading, as that's right on the front of the label. Mennen hasn't made Skin Bracer in decades. But Colgate-Palmolive bought the rights to do that when they bought the Mennen line.

Cyanamid Agrees to Sell P&G Its Men's Fragrances Division - https://apnews.com/article/8931cb1c38ee01d4631be99e1554c2f4

Did American Cyanamid purchase and continued to manufacture, not just under the Shulton name, but also from their Ohio facilities? This would lead me to believe, the Shulton name or formula didn't change until P&G purchased it from American Cyanmide in the 90's. Are there any history links showing formula changes from any of them?

 

[Featherweight]

Bottom line is American Cyanamid started making Old Spice in 1970, right up until 1990. Shulton lost control of exclusive manufacturing rights 51 years ago. AC bought Shulton and it became a puppet incorporation of AC and remained so for 20 years, until the giant passed the company to P&G, when it became P&G owned and P&G dropped the Shulton brand identity altogether. I'm not sure how P&G's Ohio facilities would change the math on that - Shulton was never based in Cincinnati. In the USA Shulton operated chiefly out of Clifton N.J. and in 1990, when AC decided to sell to P&G, the Clifton plant was forced to lay off 680 workers, 250 of which were manufacturing jobs, the rest being management. This somewhat clumsily-written article attempts to parse the transition (note that the author loses interest in Shulton after 1971, when the AC/Shulton deal was signed off on) "with American Cyanamid keeping the Shulton name for their consumer care division," because consumers cared: Cosmetics and Skin: Shulton - https://www.cosmeticsandskin.com/companies/shulton.php?fbclid=IwAR113fa4R5jBR9Ys36Qehaa1AgtMf-UJ7-NTZjUqo-LSQQqOYGJMJhSGB0w

Essentially OS was made by Shulton under license of American Cyanamid, would be another way of putting it - AC called the shots, told Shulton what to do and how to do it, Shulton was allowed to keep making their product but was not in control of money or personnel. George Shultz was not actually director of AC, but remained director of Shulton operations until 1988. There is no way to trace Old Spice formulas and how they changed through the years, other than by smelling them.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I think we own every piece of Hull pottery ever made in the dark brown with the drips in it...

 

[OkieStubble]

Bottom line is American Cyanamid started making Old Spice in 1970, right up until 1990. Shulton lost control of exclusive manufacturing rights 51 years ago. AC bought Shulton and it became a puppet incorporation of AC and remained so for 20 years, until the giant passed the company to P&G, when it became P&G owned and P&G dropped the Shulton brand identity altogether. I'm not sure how P&G's Ohio facilities would change the math on that - Shulton was never based in Cincinnati. In the USA Shulton operated chiefly out of Clifton N.J. and in 1990, when AC decided to sell to P&G, the Clifton plant was forced to lay off 680 workers, 250 of which were manufacturing jobs, the rest being management. This somewhat clumsily-written article attempts to parse the transition (note that the author loses interest in Shulton after 1971, when the AC/Shulton deal was signed off on) "with American Cyanamid keeping the Shulton name for their consumer care division," because consumers cared: Cosmetics and Skin: Shulton - https://www.cosmeticsandskin.com/companies/shulton.php?fbclid=IwAR113fa4R5jBR9Ys36Qehaa1AgtMf-UJ7-NTZjUqo-LSQQqOYGJMJhSGB0w

Essentially OS was made by Shulton under license of American Cyanamid, would be another way of putting it - AC called the shots, told Shulton what to do and how to do it, Shulton was allowed to keep making their product but was not in control of money or personnel. George Shultz was not actually director of AC, but remained director of Shulton operations until 1988. There is no way to trace Old Spice formulas and how they changed through the years, other than by smelling them.

Great article!

 

[Featherweight]

Great article!

It's tremendously interesting to read about Shulton and the post '70 corporate takeover era. I actually wish more people would delve into that particular time period for Old Spice.

 

[OkieStubble]

It's tremendously interesting to read about Shulton and the post '70 corporate takeover era. I actually wish more people would delve into that particular time period for Old Spice.

It seems you have found a few Things I haven’t seen and I have googled and researched a good bit over the years.

 

[Featherweight]

It seems you have found a few Things I haven’t seen and I have googled and researched a good bit over the years.

I've been trying to untangle the economic politics of company transactions and takeovers in the perfume industry for a while. It's hard to piece the truth together because in many cases there aren't any reliable documentations of what happens. In the case of Shulton, it's so complicated that it gets the head spinning. For example, the American Cyanamid story is one thing - I wrote an article a few years ago about the Indian Old Spice situation. The Menezes family, etc. P&G taking the formulas back, the whole thing was quite the narrative arc. (Btw, I think part of the reason P&G dropped the Shulton name from packaging has to do with the OS India story.)

Shulton's situation hinges on a dual perspective. On the one hand you can choose to view the AC buyout in '70 as much ado about nothing. Sales declined for Shulton between '69 and '70, it was the first downturn in sales in its 30+ yr history, and they were ready for bigger money to back them. Thus they maintained the Shulton company by plugging into a larger corporation.

On the other hand, you can consider the implications of what happens when a giant manufacturing conglomerate takes over anything, and infer pursuant events from there. If AC buys Shulton, what do they actually get? They get everything, including the rights to print the name and veil from customers the fact that Shulton no longer owns the product. They get to do stuff like let one of the related founders, Shultz himself, be "director" for the next 17 years. Titles are funny because if they sound official, they carry unearned weight. Shultz had every right to be CEO of Shulton, but director? When the sale to P&G happened, did anyone behind the original Shulton company's success see a penny? Did survivors of the 1970 deal approve of flankers like Old Spice Herbal? How far did AC's reach extend into the creative process?

I haven't been able to parse through all these details, even after extensive research.

The simplest analogy in company terms that I can think of is to refer to General Motors. Leland, Murphy, and Bowen founded the Cadillac Automobile Company in 1902. In 1909, the company was purchased by GM. Sure, the timelines are different, but the analogy is in how the independent Cadillac company, made by Cadillac alone, was eventually absorbed by a massive conglomerate, and from that point to today we subconsciously associate Cadillac with GM, even if in conversation GM never comes up. We still frequently pretend that Cadillac is made by Cadillac. The GM parts bin says otherwise!

The brands under American Cyanamid included Tabac, Pierre Cardin, Nina Ricci, Breck Shampoo, and Pine-Sol. These were all "divisions" of AC, just as Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, all divisions of GM.