Not getting close shave yet

[jcummins]

I have one of the VDH sets that came with the soap, bowl, and brush. I have been using the BIC sensitive disposable razor (haven't purchased a DE Razor yet).

The steps I have been doing are:

- Put Soap Bowl in Hot water with a touch of Water in it.
- Fill Ceramic Soup Bowl with Hot water and soak with Brush in it.
- Take my shower (or damp my face with a warm-to-hot damp towel for a minute or so)
- Dump water out of soup bowl
- Dump the Bit of water and soap mixture into soup bowl
- Build a starting of lather with brush and soap
- Finish building rich lather in soup bowl
- Brush and work the lather onto face
- Shave

Now, I generaly start with "down" strokes for my first shave
Second shave is generaly "up" strokes
OR "sideway directional strokes

If I leave it at that, I still have areas that are still small rough bristles
If I try to make a 3rd pass in a different direction, my skin gets really irritated, and still have some stubtle that I can feel


1st question . . . Can people generaly get a better shave with the DE razors over the BIC Sensitive disposable razors, or is it likely some other variable that I need to look at.

If it is a different varriable I need to look at; What should be the first thing I should at? Should it be some difference in Technique (and what suggestions would anyone have?)? Any suggestions would be helpful.


Let me add something regarding the lather on face.
When I put the lather on my face, it seems to be pretty rich and full on the brush; when applied to the face, it can sometimes seem kind of thin as I work the brush over my skin. I generaly, after working the brush around the skin, I usualy turn the brush on edge and thicken the lather on my face to make it thicker.

As I don't have anything to compare too, I don't know if I am adding too much water, or if possibly not enough. Keep in mind we tend to have some harder water where I am from.

Thanks

 

[gaj90027]

Nothing wrong with using a bic single blade to start out with but give a real double edge razor a try as soon as possible. I promise you won't look back

My only suggestion on your technique is to try using a diagonal or horizontal stroke for your second pass (we call this "across the grain" and abbreviate it XTG. An upwards stroke also called "against the grain" (ATG) is pretty harsh and irritating for most people and is usually saved for the last/third pass when the remaining stubble is very small and minimal. Most folks do a downward pass "with the grain" (WTG), across the grain (XTG) and finish up with against the grain (ATG).

It's also important to use very little or no pressure on each pass, try to think of it as reducing stubble with each pass rather than trying to mow everything down with one pass.

The VDH kit is a great way to get started by the way.

How is your lather making skills so far - a good lather can also go a long way in preventing irritation by providing glide and cushion.

Hope that makes sense. Let us know if you need any more clarification.

 

[gaj90027]

Just saw your comment about your lather being kind of thin. Check out the soap lather making tutorial in the soap forum and also check out Mantic's shaving videos on youtube.

If your lather is subpar you will get irritation.

 

[jcummins]

My lather is generaly like a good dollop of soap around the edges (side end) of the brush, but less so on the tip of the brush hair. When applied to the face, I work the brush around in circles and it seems kind of thin on the face. Then I finish lathering up the face with the side ends of the brush which is where all the soap seem to gather.

 

[Go West Young Man]

This part concerns me -

I - Dump the Bit of water and soap mixture into soup bowl
- Build a starting of lather with brush and soap
- Finish building rich lather in soup bowl
- Brush and work the lather onto face

How much time are you spending getting that lather going?
You need to work the brush aggressively on the soap for 30-60 seconds to load it up properly.

 

[gaj90027]

Here is the soap tutorial I was talking about:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21136

 

[jcummins]

I generaly work the brush over the soap for probably between 30 to 60 seconds. Truth be told, probably closer to 60 than 30.

Then go to the bowl with a touch of water (probably no more than a 1/2 to 1 tablespoon at the absolute most) and finish building the lather.

 

[jcummins]

Here is the soap tutorial I was talking about:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21136

This is the thread that used to base my lathering from.

 

[blade08]

Can people generaly get a better shave with the DE razors over the BIC Sensitive disposable razors, or is it likely some other variable that I need to look at.

In general, for most guys, a DE will yield better results. Mainly because DE blades are generally sharper and the razor is heavier. Most important however is a good technique and that only comes with a lot of practice. IMHO disposables are a good option only when you're away from home and can't take a DE with you.

 

[mugs]

I think you will get a better shave with a DE, but not straight away. I've only been DE shaving for less than a week, and to begin with I was more concerned about not ripping my face to bits than getting a really close shave, and now that I'm getting more used to it I'm already getting better shaves than I did with a cartridge razor, but it's still not that close. If I rub my face with the grain then it's really smooth, if I rub up the way then you can feel the stubble, and yes, there are still areas that aren't as smooth as others.

I'd advise having a go with the DE asap, but take it easy to begin with. You don't want to aim for BBS straight away. I haven't even gone ATG yet because I know my technique with regards to pressure and blade angle aren't up to it, yet I'm still happy with my results.

So from one noob to another, try it. Start off just by getting used to it (remember you can still do a shave with a bic after the DE if you're not happy with the result) and go from there.

 

[Gammon]

If your experience is like mine (you're not all that far behind me), don't even try to get a close shave at first. Just try to get it down to minimum stubble. A closer shave will come in time, and naturally. I would certainly recommend WTG, then XTG. I was doing ATG with OK results for a while, but I get much better results overall this way. Do 1 pass WTG, then 1 pass XTG, then when you master that, add a pass XTG the other direction. When you master that, you can go ATG, and probably without the other direction XTG pass.

I'd ditch the Bic in a hurry. The DE is so different and so better. The two don't even relate, and the whole experience is different.

YMMV, of course!

 

[painless]

I have one of the VDH sets that came with the soap, bowl, and brush. I have been using the BIC sensitive disposable razor (haven't purchased a DE Razor yet).

The steps I have been doing are:

- Put Soap Bowl in Hot water with a touch of Water in it.
- Fill Ceramic Soup Bowl with Hot water and soak with Brush in it.
- Take my shower (or damp my face with a warm-to-hot damp towel for a minute or so)
- Dump water out of soup bowl
- Dump the Bit of water and soap mixture into soup bowl
- Build a starting of lather with brush and soap
- Finish building rich lather in soup bowl
- Brush and work the lather onto face
- Shave

Now, I generaly start with "down" strokes for my first shave
Second shave is generaly "up" strokes
OR "sideway directional strokes

If I leave it at that, I still have areas that are still small rough bristles
If I try to make a 3rd pass in a different direction, my skin gets really irritated, and still have some stubtle that I can feel


1st question . . . Can people generaly get a better shave with the DE razors over the BIC Sensitive disposable razors, or is it likely some other variable that I need to look at.

If it is a different varriable I need to look at; What should be the first thing I should at? Should it be some difference in Technique (and what suggestions would anyone have?)? Any suggestions would be helpful.


Let me add something regarding the lather on face.
When I put the lather on my face, it seems to be pretty rich and full on the brush; when applied to the face, it can sometimes seem kind of thin as I work the brush over my skin. I generaly, after working the brush around the skin, I usualy turn the brush on edge and thicken the lather on my face to make it thicker.

As I don't have anything to compare too, I don't know if I am adding too much water, or if possibly not enough. Keep in mind we tend to have some harder water where I am from.

Thanks

My first mistake I corrected was that even though I had mountains of lather, I wasn't really using enough soap. My lather was too thin.

I used to use the Bic Sensitive razor. Everyone's experience varies, but I have never found them to be sharp enough to shave ATG.

You will be amazed with a double edge shave. Even an inferior DE blade is MUCH sharper than any disposable I have found. (The original Track 2 might be the exception. Think 1978)

 

[Drubbing]

The steps I have been doing are:

- Put Soap Bowl in Hot water with a touch of Water in it.
- Fill Ceramic Soup Bowl with Hot water and soak with Brush in it.
- Dump water out of soup bowl
- Dump the Bit of water and soap mixture into soup bowl
- Build a starting of lather with brush and soap
- Finish building rich lather in soup bowl

Personally, I think you've way too much going on here. Making the lather warm is nice and all, but doesn't make the difference between good and bad.

The various 'soak and dump' steps have already added water that will dilute your lather before you even start.

Soak and squeeze your brush. Load it up with soap til it's creamy or pasty. Then add water in your bowl as needed as you work up lather.

 

[Luc]

Also, on top of the information above, how long have you been shaving with the bic? I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, but, getting use to it takes time...

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd really recommend hunting down a DE and pick up a sampler pack.

If you have a junk or antique store nearby, go see what they have. You might score a bargain that'll make everyone else here jealous. All of the old Gillettes have fans here, so any one you find will be fine.

I find DE blades much, much better than any cart or disposable. The razors are heavier, too, and cut with less effort. So give one a try and you'll start getting great shaves as your technique improves.

 

[nicolasedelbach]

no offense but bics suck man. Getting a smooth shave is next to impossible. Personally I use a DE and while i may feel stubble in certain areas after a shave if visibly i see no hair I'm good.

The way it looks is sometimes more important then the way a probing hand trying to find stubble and does is.

 

[mstrunck]

I have only been DE shaving and building lather with a badger brush for 3 months, and my initial lather and shave results looks quite similar to yours.

For lather I now do the following:
-Fill sink with very hot water and place lather bowl there along with brush
-place 2-3 brush shakes of water over TOBS sandalwood soap (I would say approx. 1 tablespoon)
-shower!
-Apply TOBS pre-shave gel
-empty sink of water
-empty bowl of water
-empty water from the soap to the bowl
-shake water out of brush, 3-5 thorough shakes
-run a sink full of the hottest water I can get, and soak a towel
-while the sink is filling, load brush with soap
-Build lather in bowl, takes 60-90 seconds. Quite wet, but will stick to sides of a slick porcelain bowl easily.
-Apply the hot towel to face for one minute
-lather up

One note on the loading of my brush: I start by getting the sides of the brush completely covered by the "wet" soap on the top of the puck. Then I load the center part of the brush by pushing the bristles down to a fan like shape over the puck and rotate it through my fingers. All this takes approx 15 seconds. rest of time is used in circular motions to pickup additional soap with the tips of the bristles. The result is that after loading I will be able to bend the bristles in any direction and they will stay there, almost like hair wax in you hair.

I complete every pass in 5 minutes or less from lathering face until warm water rinse. If I use more time the lather will dry out and irritation, nicks and cuts are inevitable (on my face).

After I have lathered face, I agitate the lather in the bowl like if I am building lather, just for 5-10 seconds. This allows the lather to sit on my face a bit, but it also seems to keep the quality of my lather throughout all passes.


On shaving technique, I am semi adopting the Method cutting forms for now, ie 2 passes N-S, one pass diagonal parallel to my jaw line, one pass diagonal perpendicular to my jaw line. Sometimes I add additional ATG finishing if needed. Results for me are way better if I go slow with the razor, length of stroke does not seem to matter on my beard.

And I still get irritation some times, but it is considerably less if the reduction in the first two passes are effective. And I definately get DFS, sometimes even very close to BBS.

For me shaving is as much about the result as the process, with a preference to the result. I find the actual shaving to be the "spices", but no amount of spices will save an undercooked dish. I have to arrive at a reasonable result, so for now I use that and learn to minimize the side effects.

Hope my comments can be of assistance, and of course YMMV applies as always.

/Max

 

[Alec79]

Don't knock the humble Bic disposable. It takes a bit of practice to get the best out of it but I can get a consistantly really great shave with these, they're sharp, last well and don't clog up. I used one this morning as a matter of fact and face still feels nice and smooth. IMO, they are superior to any of the multiblade cartridges. A DE is heavier and feels nicer to use and less wasteful of resources but I don't believe it shaves any better.

 

[JCD]

I dry shaved with bic disposables for 20 years or more. They give a serviceable shave and the non pivoting head is good practice for a DE.
Starting out I would only shave with the grain but make multiple passes striving for reduction each time. When you get to where your face is smooth to the feel WTG then add XTG. Go for a DFS "darn fine shave" and don't worry about BBS until you get your shave routine down pat. Good luck

 

[DE Shaver]

You shaves will get better with a proper razor as it is better designed in all respects, such as in allowing lather to flow and having a greater mass for the razor head. I would at this point bite the bullet and get a true DE razor. Concentrate on being consistent in your shave strokes in terms of length, angle and pressure. You'll learn the correct balance eventually.