Newbie question

[Cool Breeze]

Although I've been shaving with a DE for a couple years, I never bothered to use a shave brush until about a month ago. I bought me an Omega boars head bristle brush and I liked it. So I got to thinking that maybe a badger brush would be even better. So I order a Savile Row Super badger and was disappointed. Just not firm enough for my face.... I sold the brush a few days later. Now I haven't given up on getting a badger brush; I figure I just lack experience in this matter. Question: Does a bigger knot translate in to a firmer brush? That would be bad news because, while I do want a firmer brush, I don't want a larger knot... a 20mm knot would suffice just fine for me. The Savile had a 25mm knot (too big for me!) Could use some input on this matter.

Thanks

 

[Amyn]

Question: Does a bigger knot translate in to a firmer brush?

NO

A firmer brush would be one that is more densely packed regardless of knot size.
The shape of knot is also important. For a firmer brush you need a bulb shaped know.

The Savile row supers you purchased are not as dense. Now if you purchase a SR Silvertip in the smaller knot size (18mm 22mm) they will come super dense, and firm just to your liking.

I will say the same for shavemac's smaller knots firm and dense

hope that helps. No need to buy a bigger knot for a firmer brush

 

[ead]

I don't love stifer brushes, but I think it is quite the opposite, big brushes tend to be more fluppy and smaller ones are more stifer

I think the Simpson is a great one for you, and also the Savile Row SilverTip is much more stiffer and if you get it in size of 22m you can't go wrong

But, I hope other people will try and answer you more

 

[Cool Breeze]

NO

A firmer brush would be one that is more densely packed regardless of knot size.
The shape of knot is also important. For a firmer brush you need a bulb shaped know.

The Savile row supers you purchased are not as dense. Now if you purchase a SR Silvertip in the smaller knot size (18mm 22mm) they will come super dense, and firm just to your liking.

I will say the same for shavemac's smaller knots firm and dense

hope that helps. No need to buy a bigger knot for a firmer brush

Good suff...it helps a lot 'thank-you-very-much.' Now I see my problem as being one that the silvertip is going to knock me up into a price range I'm not willing to pay (100+ I suspect) does anyone know of any brush that is stiffer than the Savile supers; has some good density and firmness to it; and is in the 50-70 dollar price range?

 

[Cool Breeze]

....I think the Simpson is a great one for you, and also the Savile Row SilverTip is much more stiffer and if you get it in size of 22m you can't go wrong But, I hope other people will try and answer you more

Thanks man, I appreciate your input. I'm sure one of those Simpson brushes would indeed be great. But even as a newbie to this forum, I've realized that *Simpson* means big bucks.

 

[Kyle]

If you are looking for a stiff brush:

• get a densely packed knot
• avoid tall lofts (bristle length)
• realize the differences in the hair quality offered from different manufacturers (circumference of hairs makes a difference)
• most importantly, don't get hung up on the highest classification of hair that they sell.

Of the different brushes that I have tried, Shavemac and Simpson both do an admirable job of packing the knot tightly and both seem to use a fairly thick bristle with the nod going to Simpson's. Further, the Simpson's Best grade (their 2nd tier) and the Shavemac Finest grade (their 2nd tier) seem to have more backbone than the highest end models.

As I've discovered that my own preferences lean toward a stiffer and scritchier brush, I've found great satisfaction with these "lower grades" of hair from the aforementioned manufacturers. At this point, I don't know that I will buy another "top end" bristle. I think the middle tier brushes are my personal nirvana.

 

[Doc4]

One of the big selling points with the high-end (big $$$) brushes is how soft & luxurious they are ... so you have an inexpensive preference, you lucky son of a gun!

 

[TimmyBoston]

Look into a Shavemac or a Savile Row Silvetip, they are nearly identical and both very dense, stiff yet soft and incredibly well made, some of the best brushes on the market. IMO it's defiately the way to go.

 

[Cool Breeze]

If you are looking for a stiff brush:

• get a densely packed knot
• avoid tall lofts (bristle length)
• realize the differences in the hair quality offered from different manufacturers (circumference of hairs makes a difference)
• most importantly, don't get hung up on the highest classification of hair that they sell.

Of the different brushes that I have tried, Shavemac and Simpson both do an admirable job of packing the knot tightly and both seem to use a fairly thick bristle with the nod going to Simpson's. Further, the Simpson's Best grade (their 2nd tier) and the Shavemac Finest grade (their 2nd tier) seem to have more backbone than the highest end models.

As I've discovered that my own preferences lean toward a stiffer and scritchier brush, I've found great satisfaction with these "lower grades" of hair from the aforementioned manufacturers. At this point, I don't know that I will buy another "top end" bristle. I think the middle tier brushes are my personal nirvana.

I appreciate you common sensical reply, Kyle. We seem to be on the same page here. I'm a working class stiff and don't have the scratch to get the best, simply because the perception is that it *is* the best. Often what is considered 'the best, ' to me, is not something that I want. Having said that I know that 'the best' has a lot going-for-it for people who appreciate 'the finer things in life,' but of course it's more complicated than that isn't it? Even *those* people, on occasion, may prefer something that is of less quality, for any number of reasons. But, getting to the point, after considering everything that has been written here, I'm thinking that the shavemac may be the way to go. Remember, I already tried the Sivile Row Super Badger, and I've been told that I need to jump to the next level... the silvertip. Well I'm not willing to pay 100+ for a shave brush. I'm really pushing things by talking myself into spending 70 bucks. Here are two of the shavemacs I'm interested in. Remember, I'm looking for relatively stiff, tightl packed bristles in a 21-23 in. knot. What do you guys think?:

http://tinyurl.com/3dvm5a

http://tinyurl.com/2skeum

Thanks!

 

[Hawkeye5]

If you want a firm brush with good scrubbing, more than likely the top grades of badger from the major manufacturers are not going to deliver, with the exceptions Kyle noted.
I have a 'pure' badger from a no-name company, The Burlington Brush, that is a keeper. Scrubby but not harsh. I just plain like that brush, and she was a ebay cheapy. One could look forever and not find this brush. No one seems to know anything about it.
But, with a stiffer brush it seems you need to work a bit harder to get all the lather out.

 

[minstrel]

The shape of knot is also important. For a firmer brush you need a bulb shaped know.

I haven't had a huge amount of experience with shaving brushes, but my admittedly limited experience is the opposite from this. The first brush I bought is a no-name bulb shaped brush, and it's definitely softer and more floppy than the fan shaped brushes I have bought subsequently - a no-name German made one, and a Edwin Jagger Best Badger. Of the three, I'd say the Edwin Jagger brush is the stiffest/most scrubby.

My guess is that the quality, thickness and stiffness of the hairs are of more importance than whether it's fan shaped or bulb shaped.

Just my 2 cents.

/Nicholas

 

[Cool Breeze]

I haven't had a huge amount of experience with shaving brushes, but my admittedly limited experience is the opposite from this. The first brush I bought is a no-name bulb shaped brush, and it's definitely softer and more floppy than the fan shaped brushes I have bought subsequently <snip> /Nicholas

Note that Amyn (The Barbicide Barbarian) was referring to the shape of the knot not the shape of the brush in general. Specifically he said: "For a firmer brush you need a bulb shaped know." I assumed he made a typo and meant 'bulb shaped *knot*' I'm thinking there's a difference between a bulb shape *knot* and a bulb shaped *brush,*... no?

 

[chop-chop]

Cool Breeze

Model #22558 with the 23mm knot "appears" to the eye to be more dense. Visually, the handle looks taller than the handle on the Model #22557 with the 21mm knot. Therefore, it would make more sense that the density would increase as a result of that factor.

Just my $.02

Tchau,
chop-chop

 

[DoubleE]

Note that Amyn (The Barbicide Barbarian) was referring to the shape of the knot not the shape of the brush in general. Specifically he said: "For a firmer brush you need a bulb shaped know." I assumed he made a typo and meant 'bulb shaped *knot*' I'm thinking there's a difference between a bulb shape *knot* and a bulb shaped *brush,*... no?

There is no bulb shaped knot. The knot is where the hair is glued together and inserted into the hand and is typically measured right above the brush handle. The hair on a bulb shaped brush is shorter around the perimeter so in theory, it gives a little more vertical strength or support to the longer inside hair. That is of course, if the knot is densly packed with hair. I have some fan styles that are more densly packed and firm than some of my bulb brushes. Also, the hair diameter will also come into play because fine hair will bend easier than thicker, more course hair.

Here' a shot of a Simpson's PJ2 (left - fan), and a Shavemac (right - bulb) so you can easily see the difference shapes. The Simpsons is a 22mm knot and the Shavemac, a 24.

Shavemacs and the Savile Row silvertips are two excellent bulb style brushes. Rooney and Simpsons would be my choice of the fan style. The small Rooney supers are nice, inexpensive (around $75.00) and have nice dense knots. Most of the Simpsons are going to be over the $100.00 mark but are great brushes.

Good luck with your decision and you're looking at two beautiful brushes there that will likely be what you're looking for.

 

[Kyle]

Cool Breeze,

I think that either of those two brushes would serve your wants and needs very well.

Also, if you see a different handle design on Bernd's site or perhaps a different handle material that you like better, he can build any combo you desire. Just shoot him an email, and he will make it so.

 

[Cool Breeze]

Good suff...it helps a lot 'thank-you-very-much.' Now I see my problem as being one that the silvertip is going to knock me up into a price range I'm not willing to pay (100+ I suspect) does anyone know of any brush that is stiffer than the Savile supers; has some good density and firmness to it; and is in the 50-70 dollar price range?

Sorry to bring this up again, but I still haven't bought a brush since sending back the Sivile Row Super 25 mm knot. What I don't understand is how it is that more density doesn't translate into a larger knot. It seems to me if there are more bristles it's going to make a larger knot when bound. In another message in this thread, Kyle said: If you are looking for a stiff brush:
get a densely packed knot." To get a densely packed knot don't you have to have lots of bristles (hence "dense") to make the knot. Hope I'm not being obtuse here.

 

[Kyle]

Think of it this way: If you take a 1"x1" piece of screen and a 1"x1" piece of cloth, the cloth is more densely packed (loose weave vs. tight weave).

A knot can be sparsely packed within a 23mm diameter or the manufacturer can squeeze in as many hairs as possible within the same diameter.

 

[Patrick D]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I still haven't bought a brush since sending back the Sivile Row Super 25 mm knot. What I don't understand is how it is that more density doesn't translate into a larger knot. It seems to me if there are more bristles it's going to make a larger knot when bound. In another message in this thread, Kyle said: If you are looking for a stiff brush:
get a densely packed knot." To get a densely packed knot don't you have to have lots of bristles (hence "dense") to make the knot. Hope I'm not being obtuse here.

The brush on the left has what I would refer to as 'medium dense' and is a good brush to use. The monster in the middle has a lot of hair, (38mm), but is no where near as dense as the brush on the right, which is just about as dense as it gets, (32mm), which you could us as a trampoline. If that 38mm was the same shape and size overall as the Shavemac 32mm, that would be one dense brush.

 

[Cool Breeze]

The brush on the left has what I would refer to as 'medium dense' and is a good brush to use. The monster in the middle has a lot of hair, (38mm), but is no where near as dense as the brush on the right, which is just about as dense as it gets, (32mm), which you could us as a trampoline. If that 38mm was the same shape and size overall as the Shavemac 32mm, that would be one dense brush.

Thanks Patrick and Kyle for your clarifications. I got it now! Patrick what's the brand-name of the 'medium dense' brush that you like and what is the knot size? Does it come in a denser version?

 

[DustBow]

That looks to be the B&B special edition brush for this forum. It was a one-time only deal. You can get used ones in the buy/sell/trade section of this site but they usually run about $100.
However, if you are looking for something pretty firm you might want to look for something else because the B&B does have a higher loft and members here tend to rate them a little more on the floppy side than the stiff side.