Newbie help with vintage Sheffield

[mdm20]

Hi everyone,

So first post after finally joining the forum (hurray). I am after some help regrading honing a heavily worn vintage straight, the Joseph Westby (middle) in the pictures. I got into straight shaving about five years ago but did not shave often enough to really use them. I was very kindly given the razor in question by a gentleman who first got me interested in straight shaving and said here have one of mine and see how you get on. It is for that reason that I have not given up on it and would really like to get it shave ready as to be honest it is probably my favourite razor because it was my first.

So bit of back ground, I am new-ish to honing but I have successfully managed to get one of my nicer razors shave ready, the Joseph Elliot (top) in the picture. Now this is my nicest and least worn razor that I picked up on ebay years ago when the used to go for next to nothing, but it is however quite warped and rocks a lot on the hones, so I use a rolling x-stroke and it seams to work, all be it with a very uneven bevel due to the warping and my skill not being able to compensate for it. But I just cannot get the other two shave sharp, the Kropp (bottom) in the picture I can get sharper than the Joseph Westby but neither shave well and pull a bit on the little stubble I have, also do not pass HHT which my other one does.

Now I have been going at this for weeks now with little success. I initially bread knifed it lightly to get the smile back as it was flat/frowning from the previous owner, got the bevel set after god knows how long and went about the polishing, no success. I then noticed some small chips/nicks in the edge so I used the now preferred lifting the spine slightly to get them out and then reset the bevel again, then polished, no success. I am using a 800 King and 1200 King for bevel setting and I also have a 325 DMT D8C or whatever its called. Then I have 2K, 5K and 8K Naniwa SS, 4K and 6K King and a chinese 12K. I have tried using the pyramid method between a 4K King and 8K Naniwa SS then chinese 12K, between 4K King and 6K King then chinese 12K, 5K Naniwa SS and 8K Naniwa SS then chinese 12K, and today I tried just using 800 King, 1200 King, 2K, 5K and 8K SS and missing off the chinese 12K. This has given me the same results really as non of them produced a shave ready edge, its driving me mad and I am on the edge of purchasing a 12K SS because that way I can justify the expensive purchase as a necessity to get my razor sharp, HAHA!

I know everyone has to learn etc... but I don't understand how I can get a nice edge on a heavily warped razor using a more difficult stroke on the same stones and not on the other. Any recommendation for me, do you think its the deep bevel due to the heavy wear and should I just bread knife it out completely and use a few layers of tape to try and achieve a thinner bevel? Could it be that this "triple diamond steel" is no good? I know most of it is going to be me but I just hoped someone might be able to offer some advice or tell me to leave the thing alone. I do have another razor on its way that is in good nick and nicely restored with little use to see if I can get that shave ready also, at least that will show if I can put an edge on another razor.

Sorry for the long post, almost a rant in frustration as I have spent so many hours on this now. Thank you all.

 

[Krodor]

I'd say that the steel is fine, and the it is quite a ways from "well-worn" That Kropp has some goodly spine wear, but still has life.

Don't breadknife it.

You *sure* the bevel is set? If you are happy with your other, then you are aware that the c12k is very slow, and shouldnt be used until you're really all done with the earlier stone, cuz its not going to be able to do its job otherwise.

 

[Gamma]

Pick one razor.
Stop jumping from King to SS. Stick to one set.
Make sure your stones are all lapped flat. Check - do not assume they are flat because you lapped them once.
Seriously - you'd be surprised at how un-flat stones can be the 2nd/3rd time you check them.
Check for flatness before you hone to be sure. A 99 cent ruler is not what I call a good reference. YMMV.

Start at the beginning, Use the 1.2k King to set the bevel - leave the 800 alone for now.
Get the bevel set so it'll shave arm hair, pass the tpt, tnt, whatever.
Done is done - you can't hope or will the bevel to be done. If it's almost done - it's not done.
You can wish it to be done, you can't time how long it takes for it to be done.
The bevel is done - when it's done - and not before.
Once that is done - move on to the 2k SS.
If you have a lot of swarf on the 2k - go back to the 1.2k. Big streaks of swarf means your bevel isn't done.
Once you can move to the 2k without leaving big trails of swarf, finish there and move to the 5k.
Same story - too much swarf? go back to the 2k.
After the 5k - go to the 8k SS, and again - too much swarf means going back to the 5k.
Once you can start to hone on the 8k SS without leaving heavy trails of swarf you're probably near being ready to finish.
At this point - you probably won't need more than a couple of minutes on the 8k.
Pressure on the 1.2k and 2k is fine, so long as you don't flex the blade. Be firm - but not heavy.
After 2k - lighten up a bit on the pressure.
Pressure on the 8k should be minimal.
Ideally - you should have a blade that can at least go WTG easily at the 8k - perhaps even better. Depends on your skin/technique/prep/whiskers.
If you can get the blade to that state - you can try the Chinese brick - don't be surprised if it sets the edge back from 8k though.
Those stones are inconsistent - I've had 4 and none were all that great and none were 12k.
One was plausible as a finisher but still not comparable to other stones here.
Some members state they have wonderful Chinese finishers - maybe yours is one of those golden stones. No way to tell without careful inspection.

FWIW - if your bevel is off - a 12k isn't going to help you get the edge sharp.

 

[mdm20]

Thank you for your help. I do lap my stones with my DMT before use, and I usually lap them with 20 or so figure of eights whilst they are in front of me and work with the slurry slowly diluting it down as I go. I do tend to only use the SS now but I was experimenting with the Kings before hand just to try and see what works. Talking of flatness though, I have one of the 10mm 8K SS that is not mounted and it bowed quite severely and took a lot of lapping to get a flat surface after so maybe the unmounted 10mm ones are not the best idea.

The one thing I do notice though is I do not get much noticeable swarf when using any of my stones, I do use a single layer of tape so it turns darker slightly as you go but it is not metal swarf if you know what I mean, you can tell it is the tape wearing, but maybe that just disguises the metal swarf.

Anyhoo I actually managed to get a comfortable edge on the blade last night and got quite a nice shave off of it finally. Used the 800 and 1200 Kings to rework the bevel and kept going even after I thought it was done and it did get better so obviously wasn't done when I thought it was. Then went to the 2K, 5K and 8K SS and spent quite a lot more time on each stone then I would have done before, working with a slurry at first then diluting it until clear. I think maybe when you have such a deep bevel over what you would have with a nice new razor, you need to spend a considerable amount more time on the stones as you are working against so much more area. I didn't bother with the Chinese 12K this time and just stropped off the 8K and shaved. So success finally and now I might try and work it on the Chinese 12K to see if it brings anything to the edge for the next shave, then I will hopefully know if I have a good one or not, but I have ordered a 12K SS anyway just to complete the set. I thank you for you help and replies, and I am glad I got to share my frustrations with someone even if it is the same old newbie question.

 

[mdm20]

I'd say that the steel is fine, and the it is quite a ways from "well-worn" That Kropp has some goodly spine wear, but still has life.

Don't breadknife it.

Yeah I picked up the Kropp about five years ago for a couple of quid on ebay, has a lot of spine wear and a piece of the scales are missing but I still like it as its a nice compact razor. The spine wear is nasty and I flattened it out with my DMT and then use tape when trying to hone it.

I also learned that the bread knife method is now my last resort as it is so much work just to get back to where you need to be. I now use the method I have read a lot of people talk about on here where you just work with lifting the spine to increase the angle for chip removal and such, much much faster to get a bevel back again afterwards.

 

[mdunn]

could be after breadknifing and then lifting the spine you still need to do more bevel work to repair that (calculated) damage