My experience with the Shapton 30K edge

[honed]

I recently got a razor back from jendeindustries (Tom Blodgett) who had a very generous offer of free honing going a while ago.

He was most helpful & kept answering my never ending stream of questions...
This guy takes sharpness for real & obviously is very determined to take the max out of every razor!
He finished it on the notorious Shapton 30K Pro.
And since I've seen some discussions about that particular stone before, I thought I should share my observations with you.

This is the razor in question, A shoulderless "faux frameback" 6/8 F.W Söderén, made in Eskilstuna:

I've had it for some time & it shaves like a dream, I've finished it with both coticule on water & Naniwa 10K followed by CroX & Cerium on leather.
Very nice shave with both methods.

And just for further reference, I've shaved with a whole lot of different edges from atleast 10 different honers, and I always ask what method they used,
so I've gotten a pretty good idea on what I like.

I have typical scandinavian skin, very light & rather sensitive and still pretty tough stubble.
So the coticule have been the perfect edge for me of all the ones I've tried.

Anyway, yesterday morning, after my face was fully smothered in Speick, I picked it up & went to town.

Upon first couple of strokes WTG, I immidiately felt that this edge means business :woot:
Very, very sharp. Infact after finishing the WTG pass I concluded that it was the sharpest edge I've tried so far.
The one that comes close is a Heljestrand I had proffesionally honed up to 0,25 diamond.
But that one was a bit rough, this wasn't.
The feeling of the Söderén on the skin was not as butter-smooth as a coticule & not the almost butter-smoothness of CrOx or Escher, but it still wasn't unpleasant.
Just a slight "crispy" feeling.

XTG & ATG went just as easy, infact the blade didn't seem to care what direction the whiskers had, it just cut them off, without remorse or any discomfort.

I slapped on some Spanish Floid & it didn't sting more then usual. Otherwise Spanish Floid always tells me right away if I have had a slightly rough shave.
But no. Put som Jason's balm on & the face felt great.
Some facesturbation later I reached the conclusion that this was probably the closest shave I've ever had.
A complete BBS.

And a few hours later my face still felt great, not any sign of irritation.
A very slight "tingling" sensation. Not unpleasant either, just a fresh feeling of rejuvation.

Day 2 was pretty much the same (This morning)
Sometimes when I had a really close shave the day before, I have a tendency to get some irritation on the neck if going for a full 3-pass.
But not this time.
Same results, absolutely magnificient shave, the same slightly crispy feeling on the skin, but absolutely no irritation.
Speick splash afterward told the same story.

And here I am, noon-time, faceturbating like a madman, forcing (almost...) my co-workers to feel my face.

Before Tom sent me the razor he wrote that the test-shaves had been "divine"
So my hopes were high. But obviously not too high, because my latest two shaves have actually been heavenly.

Will I pick up the Shapton 30K any time soon?
No, I simply can't justify that at the moment.
Something tells me that no matter how nice my kids think it is to have the most well-shaved dad in town, they still favour clothes & food over a dad with a divine shave

Will I send more razors to Tom?
Yes, I think so!

Ironically I've become self-sufficient when it comes to honing, with a good coticule, some naniwas, a DMT and a variety of pastes.
But there is just no way for me to get this kind of edge by myself.

And I still absolutely love the smoothness of the coticule. But this was a really refreshing experience!
Another dimension so to speak.

 

[wdwrx]

I've used a pro-honed blade done the same way. Very close shaves. I found it a little harsh at the time, but since then my skills have improved. I should try that type of edge again.
I really considered going with the Shapton stones when i first started out honing, but got hooked on the naturals.

 

[Seraphim]

The edge is straight off of the Shapton?

Just to clarify.....

 

[honed]

The edge is straight off of the Shapton?

Just to clarify.....

Yes, straight off the Shapton 30.000 Pro.
Well, he stropped also ofcourse. I believe Tom uses Kanayama strops.

Between shaves 1&2 I stropped on my Neil Miller, about 25 clean linen & 50 buffalo leather.

 

[jendeindustries]

Thank you for your review, Honed!

The progression was all Shapton PRO: 1K, 2K, 5K, 8K, 15K, and 30K. Then 3-5 passes on the Kanayama 50,000 canvas and 10 or so on the leather. I loved it so much that I fully shaved with it 3 times before sending it out - each shave had WTG, ATG, and touching up, and all 3 had that amazing BBS.

I must admit that I seriously thought about losing that razor in the mail...

After the 3rd shave, I touched it up with 3 passes on the 30K Shapton Pro, and the same canvas and stropping as above.

I'm also in the same mindset as Honed where Chromium oxide is smoother then the 30K edge, and diamonds are rougher. But as I have pointed out to Honed in our PMs, the 30K Pro edge is unique in the sense that it creates a wonderful balance between "sharp" and "smooth".

 

[Seraphim]

Thank you for your review, Honed!

The progression was all Shapton PRO: 1K, 2K, 5K, 8K, 15K, and 30K. Then 3-5 passes on the Kanayama 50,000 canvas and 10 or so on the leather. I loved it so much that I fully shaved with it 3 times before sending it out - each shave had WTG, ATG, and touching up, and all 3 had that amazing BBS.

I must admit that I seriously thought about losing that razor in the mail...

After the 3rd shave, I touched it up with 3 passes on the 30K Shapton Pro, and the same canvas and stropping as above.

I'm also in the same mindset as Honed where Chromium oxide is smoother then the 30K edge, and diamonds are rougher. But as I have pointed out to Honed in our PMs, the 30K Pro edge is unique in the sense that it creates a wonderful balance between "sharp" and "smooth".

Thanks for the details.

When you use pastes, do you use them on balsa, or hanging canvas, or what?

I get very smooth edges using a combo chromox/0.5um diamond on hanging canvas.

 

[jendeindustries]

I use the HA Bench hone with 1 micron Boron Carbide, 1 micron Chromium oxide, .25 Chromium oxide, and .25 diamond on balsa wood.

I also have a loaded hanging strop with SRD .5 chromium oxide and a hard felt strop with SRD .5 micron diamond.

I normally use the stones without any pastes or strops (other than stropping for shaving) when honing. I have the convenience of being able to use my 30Ks for touching up, but have no issues with touching up on the pastes or strops.

The more I use the 30K edges for shaving, I almost feel that the Chromium Oxide is too smooth. It sounds weird, but I kind of like the slight grip. To each his own, though

 

[SliceOfLife]

Thank you for your review, Honed!

The progression was all Shapton PRO: 1K, 2K, 5K, 8K, 15K, and 30K. Then 3-5 passes on the Kanayama 50,000 canvas and 10 or so on the leather. I loved it so much that I fully shaved with it 3 times before sending it out - each shave had WTG, ATG, and touching up, and all 3 had that amazing BBS.

I must admit that I seriously thought about losing that razor in the mail...

After the 3rd shave, I touched it up with 3 passes on the 30K Shapton Pro, and the same canvas and stropping as above.

I'm also in the same mindset as Honed where Chromium oxide is smoother then the 30K edge, and diamonds are rougher. But as I have pointed out to Honed in our PMs, the 30K Pro edge is unique in the sense that it creates a wonderful balance between "sharp" and "smooth".

What's your opinion on the 30k finish vs the 16k? The price difference is so extreme that one would hope there's a noticeable improvement.

 

[domino]

Wow! that Pro 30k is BIG $$$$....

 

[jendeindustries]

Yes, I used the 30K PRO in Honed's razor.

I've moved away from the Glass stones on my razors. I found them to be too fast for my style of honing. The Pro stones allow me to make more passes without overdoing it. It's not that I'm an over-honer (which I am)....

There are differences between the 16K and 30K Glass edges, though. For me, I find the 16K to be a little aggressive (comparatively) on the edges. The 30K glass smooths things out a bit more. There have been issues with the 16K breaking down an edge, and this has happened to me on thinner razors. I spoke to Harrelson Stanley about it and he said the 16K has a particularly hard binder, which is what causes rougher scratches. While not necessarily ideal for razors, he said the woodworkers loved it. Still, I know of many 16K owners who swear by it for their razors. I have also had some wonderful shaves off the 16K.

For me, I've been going from the 8K Glass to the 10K Glass, skipping the 16K and going straight to the 30K glass. It gives a little more freedom, and a few more strokes on the 30K.

I think the 30K in both series is definitely a notch up from the 16K and 15K stones. Is it absolutely necessary? No. As pointed out, the finish is a unique balance of sharp and smooth. Also Shaptons are designed with the intention to go all the way up to the 30K stone without the need of pastes or strops. It should also be noted that one of the best aspects is that the 30K is the only .5 micron application that can be used with both edge trailing and edge leading strokes, where strops and pastes are limited to edge trailing strokes.

 

[Woodash]

It should also be noted that one of the best aspects is that the 30K is the only .5 micron application that can be used with both edge trailing and edge leading strokes, where strops and pastes are limited to edge trailing strokes.

Of course, it's variable and hard to quantify, but a good Asagi (or Kiita) with a well-worked slurry would fall into that same category, no?

 

[Sparq]

Of course, it's variable and hard to quantify, but a good Asagi (or Kiita) with a well-worked slurry would fall into that same category, no?

Indeed.

 

[jendeindustries]

Same category, but different, if you know what I mean, just as every Kiita and Asagi with their variables (which are compounded by variables of naguras, if used) will yield a similar, yet different result.

The only major difference would be that the 30K is synthetic, so the results will be more consistent and predictable. The downside being that those results are not going to vary - it is what it is. (luckily, though, they are what they are )

 

[Seraphim]

0.5um diamond lapping film is also an edge leading alternative, albiet an expensive one....

 

[jendeindustries]

0.5um diamond lapping film is also an edge leading alternative, albiet an expensive one....

I didn't know that...I stand corrected.

But having never tried the film, I am seriously wondering if it is expensive because you rip through the film with the edge leading, or it is just expensive to purchase...

 

[Seraphim]

I didn't know that...I stand corrected.

But having never tried the film, I am seriously wondering if it is expensive because you rip through the film with the edge leading, or it is just expensive to purchase...

It is fairly expensive, and wears out fairly rapidly. It doesn't get ripped up, the particulate simply wears away due to use.

 

[jendeindustries]

Right - So I should say that the Shapton 30K is the only medium with renewable abrasive that can be used both edge leading and trailing.

 

[Disburden]

The only issue I have with the post is that you mentioned the razor was finished with a 30K Shapton but then you used a Coticule when it came into your posession. Why did you use the coticule when you got the razor, was the edge rough?

Also if you're using a coticule after a Shapton 30K the edge is no longer a Shapton edge, it's a coticule edge, you have removed the Shapton edge and covered it when another's stones characteristic.

Or was this just an example of finishing stones you have used before you sent the razor to be honed? Coticule edges aren't all that sharp, imo.

 

[honed]

The only issue I have with the post is that you mentioned the razor was finished with a 30K Shapton but then you used a Coticule when it came into your posession. Why did you use the coticule when you got the razor, was the edge rough?

Also if you're using a coticule after a Shapton 30K the edge is no longer a Shapton edge, it's a coticule edge, you have removed the Shapton edge and covered it when another's stones characteristic.

Or was this just an example of finishing stones you have used before you sent the razor to be honed? Coticule edges aren't all that sharp, imo.

I assume you mean my first post?

If so, there might be some kind of translation loss, I'm aforeigner you know, my native tongue sounds more like thus:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo[/YOUTUBE]

Clarification:
I'm a coticule honer & lover of coticule egdes.

But as for this one, I did not touch it with anything else then my Neil Miller Linen/Buffalo strop.

And, while I'm at it, I have 7 shaves down with this blade & it still is working great. Maybe I noticed the slightest of declines in sharpness during the last ATG-pass. And if I did, it would be perfectly normal. 6-8 shaves is what I get out of a freshly honed blade before I need to make a small touch-up.

Some addendendum;
It would however be a cool experient, to make about 30 feather-light laps on a coti with water after the 30K Shapton.
I've done some experiments & the coticule enhances the edge after both 3um lapping film & 16K Shapton & after Naniwa 10K & stropping on 1um diamond to insane sharpness.
In all three cases the coticule added smoothness without any "dulling" effect.
But that is according to my preferences. YMMV.

And it wouldn't feel right to take a very well honed blade, fresh from Tom's 30K Pro stone & then have a go with it on my coticule.
So I will enjoy the edge as it is. And enjoy it I do very much!
Infact, I have a few razors in my shop that I will send out to Tom in a near future! :woot:

 

[Arkwell]

Yes, I used the 30K PRO in Honed's razor.

I've moved away from the Glass stones on my razors. I found them to be too fast for my style of honing. The Pro stones allow me to make more passes without overdoing it. It's not that I'm an over-honer (which I am)....

There are differences between the 16K and 30K Glass edges, though. For me, I find the 16K to be a little aggressive (comparatively) on the edges. The 30K glass smooths things out a bit more. There have been issues with the 16K breaking down an edge, and this has happened to me on thinner razors. I spoke to Harrelson Stanley about it and he said the 16K has a particularly hard binder, which is what causes rougher scratches. While not necessarily ideal for razors, he said the woodworkers loved it. Still, I know of many 16K owners who swear by it for their razors. I have also had some wonderful shaves off the 16K.

For me, I've been going from the 8K Glass to the 10K Glass, skipping the 16K and going straight to the 30K glass. It gives a little more freedom, and a few more strokes on the 30K.

I think the 30K in both series is definitely a notch up from the 16K and 15K stones. Is it absolutely necessary? No. As pointed out, the finish is a unique balance of sharp and smooth. Also Shaptons are designed with the intention to go all the way up to the 30K stone without the need of pastes or strops. It should also be noted that one of the best aspects is that the 30K is the only .5 micron application that can be used with both edge trailing and edge leading strokes, where strops and pastes are limited to edge trailing strokes.

So what is your complete glass series set for honing St8's(Or what would you recommend in the Shapton glass for general honing)?