Must I Reset Bevel If 8k Touchup Won't Bring Blade Back?

[TheLegalRazor]

This is the scenario I'm seeking advice on. Say I have a razor which has given me numerous great shaves over an extended period of time, so there's no doubt the bevel was properly set and the blade was honed to shave ready condition . Along the way it's been touched up with a few laps on felt with CrOx. Further along the way, when the CrOx didn't do the job, it was touched up with a few laps on the 12k. Even further along, when the 12k didn't do the job, it was touched up with a few laps on the 8k.

Now that I'm down to the 8k for a touchup and the razor is not responding, do I drop down to 4k and do a full honing progression from there? Or do I drop down to 1k, reset the bevel, and do a full honing progression from there?

 

[paco664]

yes... drop back to the 4k and spend your time making sure the bevel is well set.... it should pop hair on your arm along the entire length of the cutting edge before you move on...

take you time and make sure its perfect because the better job you do on the 4k the better the result will be on the 8k....

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Ooh, difficult call.l've not gone anywhere near as far with any of my straights so it's a guess but I'd say you could stick on the 8K and hone away. What I dont understand is how you were able to bring it back to shave ready after the CROX which rounds he bevel and not just go back to crox again. Maybe the edge has been rolled? If you can't get it back with the 8 then try experimenting with the 4 and if worst comes to worst reset the bevel!
I know this doesn't answer your question but there you go.

 

[gary haywood]

i'd try 5 laps on 4k and 20 on 8k then 20 on 12k followed by 10 on crox ..

 

[Doc226]

i'd try 5 laps on 4k and 20 on 8k then 20 on 12k followed by 10 on crox ..

5 laps on 4k? I don't think that will do much. I am not a lap counter, I go by feel and the action of the fluid wave.

Some folks also recommend pyramid honing. Never understood that. IMO get the most of the stone at the level you are honing, when at the 4k level make sure all previous scratches have been removed from the previous stone. If you do this when moving up to the 8k stone there is absolutely no need to drop back down to the 4k.

Works for some but makes no sense to me.

 

[paco664]

i'd try 5 laps on 4k and 20 on 8k then 20 on 12k followed by 10 on crox ..

i would suggest more in the 40-50 careful laps on the 4k paying very close attention to the pool of water in front of the edge....

then followed by 40-50 careful laps on the 8k with lessening pressure every 5 or so once again paying close attention to the pool... *(you want to see the water run up over the cutting edge)

then 40-50 more on the 12k .... then strop and HHT it... then crox if needed restrop and shave....

but thats just me... i'm weird like that...

 

[Slash McCoy]

Laps and more laps. It sounds like you slightly rounded the edge and so the 8k is not registering. Look at the edge under magnification. Give it the sharpie test. What is happening is the bevel being applied by the 8k is not reaching all the way out to the edge. More than one way to skin this cat but you got to get the two bevel planes meeting at the edge or you don't have an edge at all.

 

[gash]

Laps and more laps. It sounds like you slightly rounded the edge and so the 8k is not registering. Look at the edge under magnification. Give it the sharpie test. What is happening is the bevel being applied by the 8k is not reaching all the way out to the edge. More than one way to skin this cat but you got to get the two bevel planes meeting at the edge or you don't have an edge at all.

Yes, hone it until it will skin a cat. If the cat whines, the blade is not ready.

 

[smalltank]

1k=creates and sets edge
4k=Sharpens the edge
8k=polishes the edge
12=finishes the edge and polish

 

[danjared]

5 laps on 4k? I don't think that will do much. I am not a lap counter, I go by feel and the action of the fluid wave.

Some folks also recommend pyramid honing. Never understood that. IMO get the most of the stone at the level you are honing, when at the 4k level make sure all previous scratches have been removed from the previous stone. If you do this when moving up to the 8k stone there is absolutely no need to drop back down to the 4k.

Works for some but makes no sense to me.

Yes, 5 laps on a 4k to start off and see if it makes an improvement. Since the bevel is in pretty good condition, that's a good starting point. There's no need to go overboard first when very little work might do. Gary isn't talking about pyramid honing either, nor about honing by numbers. He's just giving a starting point.

1k=creates and sets edge
4k=Sharpens the edge
8k=polishes the edge
12=finishes the edge and polish

I think that's a fairly simple but unsubstantiated look at it. Certainly, coarser goes first, but that's about it.

 

[jred]

I was recently in the same position. I used a marker on the edge & used a 12um film until it was gone on both sides, then proceeded through the grits. Is that not a valid way to be sure the bevel is ok?

I mean, if the bevel is ok, it'll take off the marker in a couple of passes, right?

 

[Kentos]

I was recently in the same position. I used a marker on the edge & used a 12um film until it was gone on both sides, then proceeded through the grits. Is that not a valid way to be sure the bevel is ok?

I mean, if the bevel is ok, it'll take off the marker in a couple of passes, right?

The swarf will get between the blade and hone and abrade away the ink too, so yes and no. I would rely on a physical test of the bevel in addition to visual tests.

 

[Kentos]

To the OP, were you stropping on hanging pasted strops for touch ups?

 

[TheLegalRazor]

Kent - The CrOx touch ups were on a paddle strop with felt. I normally do 15 laps for a touchup or as a finisher.

 

[gary haywood]

Kent - The CrOx touch ups were on a paddle strop with felt. I normally do 15 laps for a touchup or as a finisher.[/QUOTE

I have the crox on felt paddle from srd ... how did you feel the shaves were after a touch up on crox felt? I stopped using mine as i felt it was'nt that efective unlike crox on a piece of balsa or leather strop... like i mentioned before just do some small work on 4k then 8k and slowly dial in on the shave ready edge .. i think less is better .. Also you can easily reset bevel on your 4k ...

 

[TheLegalRazor]

gary haywood - I also have the SRD paddle strop with the felt pad. I've had good results with it, but haven't tried CrOx on balsa or leather. I undestand the arguments for balsa, but I'm also aware that some feel that the finish from CrOx on balsa is harsher than on felt. It does seem that I should not need to go back to the 1k and will work with the 4k.

 

[gary haywood]

i have tryed crox paste on every thing and i have found crox on balsa can be a little harsh, but only if you over do it.. 5 laps on balsa is like 25 on leather strop... crox works very quikly on balsa ... This is what i found when i was using crox , which now i don't as i find the finish from a coticule to be much more gentle yet very smooth .. I think you'd be better of touching up i the future with your finishing stone .. do tat every 7/10 shaves and i dout you'll ever need to go back to 4k stone unless you damage the edge ..

 

[TheLegalRazor]

I have a 60 x 150 coticule that I've been experimenting with and would like to use it for touch ups. What do you suggest for a routine to start with? You mentioned every 7-10 shaves, which is about where I would normally do a CrOx touchup. Should I use just water or a very diluted slurry? How many laps? I understand that I'll have to play with it to see what works best, but I'd like some suggestions as to to where to start.

 

[gary haywood]

me and a thew others did an test on just that with acoticule .. every 7 shaves we did 30 x strokes with water . it works every time.. even if you was to do 100 laps as daft as it may sound it will not do any harm..But 30 is very good every 7 shaves then strop on linen /leather .. just use water ... how many touch ups did you do on crox before it failed ? I kep a small 4x2 coticule in my bathroom and thats what i do . if you like you can use some lather or just water .. thats all barber did ... being a barber my self i no a tew older barbers in there eighty's . one barber told me he did 30 x strokes on his natural stone once a week and he did that for years ... with a good stropping. he never used paste ...

 

[professorchaos]

I would. And I'd stay on the 4K until it passes the TNT. Might be ten laps, might be fifty.