Hi, I'm sure that I have seen it mentioned before but is the Muhle R89 head and the Edwin Jagger DE89 head exactly the same. The Muhle R89 handle seems to have a better grip. Do the same company make both?
Muhle R89 and EJDe89 same head?
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Thanks for the info!
At last count, the R89 head appeared on 26 razors by three manufacturers.
According to Neil Jagger, the DE89 and Muhle R89 heads were jointly designed so they "are the same head" in that respect, but Jagger manufactures their own heads on their own machinery in their own factory. Below is part of an interview from April 2012 where he is specifically asked about this.
Obie: The story going around is that the German Muhle makes the Edwin Jagger razor shave head. Is this correct or is it just fallacy?
Neil: Actually we hear this a lot. This is not correct at all. It was Andreas Muller — new to the Muhle Company at the time — and myself who teamed up to search for potential contract manufacturers before we started to design a two-part head that suited both company’s needs. It was a very exciting time as we exchanged numerous sketches and CAD drawings with alteration after alteration. Ultimately my determination to keep improving the underside of the DE base plate — clean and uncluttered — allowed us to agree on a new design that was really quite different from anything else we had seen already on the market. Once we had approved the drawings we both committed to prototyping costs and shared the complicated tooling costs, which were at that time considerable.
Obie: This then, once and for all, erases the currently held belief that Muhle designs and produces the Edwin Jagger shave head.
Neil: Having actively been involved in the design, trialing and final prototyping, just like Andreas, I view the DE head as part Edwin Jagger design. We do not rely on Muhle for supplies to fulfill our growing sales. Our components come direct from our tools and we determine availability, our own production runs and Edwin Jagger quality control.
Obie: And the Merkur shave head of the early Edwin Jagger days?
Neil: Merkur has never been involved in any part of the Edwin Jagger DE razor head design process or requirements. Originally we simply bought what Merkur had to offer, a sort of off-the-shelf agreement. Now Edwin Jagger has designed its own DE two-part head systems and owns its own tools, producing exclusively manufactured components to our exacting specifications. Edwin Jagger no longer uses any other DE head.
Obie: The story going around is that the German Muhle makes the Edwin Jagger razor shave head. Is this correct or is it just fallacy?
Neil: Actually we hear this a lot. This is not correct at all. It was Andreas Muller — new to the Muhle Company at the time — and myself who teamed up to search for potential contract manufacturers before we started to design a two-part head that suited both company’s needs. It was a very exciting time as we exchanged numerous sketches and CAD drawings with alteration after alteration. Ultimately my determination to keep improving the underside of the DE base plate — clean and uncluttered — allowed us to agree on a new design that was really quite different from anything else we had seen already on the market. Once we had approved the drawings we both committed to prototyping costs and shared the complicated tooling costs, which were at that time considerable.
Obie: This then, once and for all, erases the currently held belief that Muhle designs and produces the Edwin Jagger shave head.
Neil: Having actively been involved in the design, trialing and final prototyping, just like Andreas, I view the DE head as part Edwin Jagger design. We do not rely on Muhle for supplies to fulfill our growing sales. Our components come direct from our tools and we determine availability, our own production runs and Edwin Jagger quality control.
Obie: And the Merkur shave head of the early Edwin Jagger days?
Neil: Merkur has never been involved in any part of the Edwin Jagger DE razor head design process or requirements. Originally we simply bought what Merkur had to offer, a sort of off-the-shelf agreement. Now Edwin Jagger has designed its own DE two-part head systems and owns its own tools, producing exclusively manufactured components to our exacting specifications. Edwin Jagger no longer uses any other DE head.
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XTrooper:
I have spent many hours reading about Edwin Jagger, Merkur, and Muhle razors. This is the first time I have seen this interview with Neil Jagger. Very interesting and informative.
Many Thanks!
I have spent many hours reading about Edwin Jagger, Merkur, and Muhle razors. This is the first time I have seen this interview with Neil Jagger. Very interesting and informative.
Many Thanks!
My pleasure, Doc. Please check your PMs.
Interesting. Never knew the history behind these razors. Thanks for posting.
Ben
Ben
So they designed the head together. It's the same head but each makes their own? Sounds like the right Twix and left Twix factories .
One of the reasons I like the EJ/Muhle head is the clean, uncluttered underside.
Oh, finding out the same head is made by two different manufacturers is causing my EJAD to flare up. I have been wanting to try the Muhle handle.
I'm new to B&B so not sure if the preferred etiquette is to start a new thread or raise an old thread from the dead.
I've been trying to decide which to buy and wondering if one is better - but searches keep bringing up theads and posts claiming the Jagger and Muhle 89 heads are identical. But side by side pictures show that they are not - or perhaps this difference is only on the underside of the cap and doesn't affect the geometry?. I'm guessing one or the other (or both) made changes to the design over the years? Anyone know if they shave differently if they were tested on the same handle?
I've been trying to decide which to buy and wondering if one is better - but searches keep bringing up theads and posts claiming the Jagger and Muhle 89 heads are identical. But side by side pictures show that they are not - or perhaps this difference is only on the underside of the cap and doesn't affect the geometry?. I'm guessing one or the other (or both) made changes to the design over the years? Anyone know if they shave differently if they were tested on the same handle?
One thing that has changed in the years since those posts from 2013 is that Muhle has switched from a zamak threaded post to a brass post. Edwin Jagger still uses the zamak post. I have had two Edwin Jagger DE89's where the post corroded and the cap had to be replaced. To be fair to Edwin Jagger, I contacted them and they provided a new top cap free of charge. So you're not taking a big risk if you decide you like the handle better on the Edwin Jagger and opt for it over the Muhle. Even if you had to buy the replacement cap, it is not an expensive item. With all of that said, if I were going to buy one of the two, I would go for the Muhle because of that brass post.
Mike M
...but this one IS cracked.
I recently acquired the Muhle R89 with rose gold handle
It has become one of my favourite razors, largely for its comfort and smoothness. I am a bit of a Muhle fanboy and have the R41 and Rocca R94 and have been impressed with the build quality on all of them. In the event of a problem you can also buy the top cap on its own, or the top cap baseplate is available separately so you could buy an R41 topcap and baseplate for when you get a bit braver
It has become one of my favourite razors, largely for its comfort and smoothness. I am a bit of a Muhle fanboy and have the R41 and Rocca R94 and have been impressed with the build quality on all of them. In the event of a problem you can also buy the top cap on its own, or the top cap baseplate is available separately so you could buy an R41 topcap and baseplate for when you get a bit braver
@Mike M I have this handle paired to my R41 - beautiful piece.
Aside from my R89 with wooden handle, I really like using the Grande variant.
Aside from my R89 with wooden handle, I really like using the Grande variant.
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I use them almost exclusively, on an iKon Bulldog handle. From my limited experience, they shave exactly the same.
Thanks this is good to know.
I don't know about the Muhle branded products, but
Probably an older picture of a pre 2017 model? They likely had to redesign top plate for brass threading.
All my R89 variants are the newer flatter top plate.
1x Muhle Traditional Chrome as the one as in your picture.. with the newer top plate.
1x Gillette Heritage (Head made in Germany and Handle USA).
1x The Art of shaving (P&G/Gillette) Discontinued, but still sold on Amazon. (Made in Germany) Paid $16 around Black Friday.
All of them are brass threading. Both top plate and threaded part of handle.
The AOS model I just grabbed was an insanely good deal.. I didn't need it, but it was 16 bucks.. handle is nice and even came with a 5 pack of Gillette Platinum blades.
Probably an older picture of a pre 2017 model? They likely had to redesign top plate for brass threading.
All my R89 variants are the newer flatter top plate.
1x Muhle Traditional Chrome as the one as in your picture.. with the newer top plate.
1x Gillette Heritage (Head made in Germany and Handle USA).
1x The Art of shaving (P&G/Gillette) Discontinued, but still sold on Amazon. (Made in Germany) Paid $16 around Black Friday.
All of them are brass threading. Both top plate and threaded part of handle.
The AOS model I just grabbed was an insanely good deal.. I didn't need it, but it was 16 bucks.. handle is nice and even came with a 5 pack of Gillette Platinum blades.
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I have been using them since around 2010. I dissed Zamak, when I first read about it, like most people on this forum. The reality is, regardless of the material used, one must understand the nature of things to make things last.
So, to make it really short, without having to lecture anyone about torque, tension, fillet radius and length of thread engagement, one might fall victim to either of the below
It does seem to me that EJ brought some improvements to their DE89 heads and I would not hesitate to buy more of their heads in the near future.
I still shave with the DE89 head I first use in 2010, if I am not mistaken. And I never had to throw away one.
For the price one can buy it, I must say, it is the best value, even when not on sale.
So, to make it really short, without having to lecture anyone about torque, tension, fillet radius and length of thread engagement, one might fall victim to either of the below
It does seem to me that EJ brought some improvements to their DE89 heads and I would not hesitate to buy more of their heads in the near future.
I still shave with the DE89 head I first use in 2010, if I am not mistaken. And I never had to throw away one.
For the price one can buy it, I must say, it is the best value, even when not on sale.
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