Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Lacquer thinner removes the paint just fine.
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
McVeyMac/phat Gold Dollar Honing Experiment and Practice
- Thread starter McVeyMac
- Start date
Ok, so I couldn't resist. I think McVeyMac is leaving too soon for me to get this to him, So I'm not in a rush to
drop it in the post.
The Contestants: I honed the one with the partially removed stabilizer, McVeyMac the one with the intact stablizer
and much much flattening:
So, McVeyMac's GD had been to australia with me, and done a good 8 or 9 shaves there. So, In the interest of fairness, I gave it 20 passes on CROX balsa and 20 passes on FEOX balsa. I then gave both razors 20 passes on suede and 50 on cordovan on the Kamayana #3.
Software was MWF, mug lathered and on my face while stropping the razors.
Whipped dog silvertip.
Finished with CWS, and then Nivea ASB
First up was mine, on the right side of my face, WTG. I was a little worried because of the "strangeness" and asymmetric bevel on mine, thanks to the asymmetric spine on the razor I got. but it doesn't seem to affect the ability
for it to shave - an edge is still an edge (although this one might not last as long) A very comfortable WTG pass, N-S
I then switched to McVeyMac's razor for the left, and had the same results.
I then did S-N on my neck, a bit on the RHS with mine, and a bit on the LHS with McVeyMac's razor. Both performed very well. Here's where I can really tell if the razor pulls a lot, and I can't really notice a significant difference between them. Continued with a S-N neck on both sides and mouth to ear, then a slightly angled S-N neck pass with touchups
and S-N on cheeks.
Face feels very nice. I'm full on BBS except for a tiny patch on my neck that always doesn't get quite right unless I'm really on, and I wasn't quite there today, trying to get out the door before the snowplows bury my car. (no we don't
have east coast snowmageddon, just another average alberta morning). All in all - I can't really tell the difference between the shaves. Any difference is probably more than attributable to me, and not the razor.
So I'm somewhat relieved that I got this shaving well. I don't think I put as much effort into it as McVeyMac did - the
amount of grinding he had to do for the way he solved the spine issue looks like it took a lot of sweat. In the end, other
than the dremeling, and a little bit of 1000K norton, I did manage to do the whole thing on film, although I probably wore out a sheet of 15um diamond setting the bevel on this thing - the steel in it is sure tough enough, too bad the
finish isn't just a little better to start with.
Anyway, I'll now strop them up, clean off and sterilize and then oil them up and send them toward McVeyMac and we'll see if he can differentiate.
drop it in the post.
The Contestants: I honed the one with the partially removed stabilizer, McVeyMac the one with the intact stablizer
and much much flattening:
So, McVeyMac's GD had been to australia with me, and done a good 8 or 9 shaves there. So, In the interest of fairness, I gave it 20 passes on CROX balsa and 20 passes on FEOX balsa. I then gave both razors 20 passes on suede and 50 on cordovan on the Kamayana #3.
Software was MWF, mug lathered and on my face while stropping the razors.
Whipped dog silvertip.
Finished with CWS, and then Nivea ASB
First up was mine, on the right side of my face, WTG. I was a little worried because of the "strangeness" and asymmetric bevel on mine, thanks to the asymmetric spine on the razor I got. but it doesn't seem to affect the ability
for it to shave - an edge is still an edge (although this one might not last as long) A very comfortable WTG pass, N-S
I then switched to McVeyMac's razor for the left, and had the same results.
I then did S-N on my neck, a bit on the RHS with mine, and a bit on the LHS with McVeyMac's razor. Both performed very well. Here's where I can really tell if the razor pulls a lot, and I can't really notice a significant difference between them. Continued with a S-N neck on both sides and mouth to ear, then a slightly angled S-N neck pass with touchups
and S-N on cheeks.
Face feels very nice. I'm full on BBS except for a tiny patch on my neck that always doesn't get quite right unless I'm really on, and I wasn't quite there today, trying to get out the door before the snowplows bury my car. (no we don't
have east coast snowmageddon, just another average alberta morning). All in all - I can't really tell the difference between the shaves. Any difference is probably more than attributable to me, and not the razor.
So I'm somewhat relieved that I got this shaving well. I don't think I put as much effort into it as McVeyMac did - the
amount of grinding he had to do for the way he solved the spine issue looks like it took a lot of sweat. In the end, other
than the dremeling, and a little bit of 1000K norton, I did manage to do the whole thing on film, although I probably wore out a sheet of 15um diamond setting the bevel on this thing - the steel in it is sure tough enough, too bad the
finish isn't just a little better to start with.
Anyway, I'll now strop them up, clean off and sterilize and then oil them up and send them toward McVeyMac and we'll see if he can differentiate.
A couple more pics for comparison
Here's the one I did. The bevel is not symmetric due to the crazy grind. its' wider at the heel and narrower at the toe on one side,
and the opposite on the other - matching how this razor isn't really ground symmetrically. I decided to go with it, fixing it was
too much work. (were this a box of these things, for 5 bucks each, I probably would have left this one in the box, or used it for
a novelty butter knife)
Here's McVeyMac's You can simply feel the sweat over his stone to get the shoulder ground down that far. But at least he got
a nice even bevel.
Here's the one I did. The bevel is not symmetric due to the crazy grind. its' wider at the heel and narrower at the toe on one side,
and the opposite on the other - matching how this razor isn't really ground symmetrically. I decided to go with it, fixing it was
too much work. (were this a box of these things, for 5 bucks each, I probably would have left this one in the box, or used it for
a novelty butter knife)
Here's McVeyMac's You can simply feel the sweat over his stone to get the shoulder ground down that far. But at least he got
a nice even bevel.
And here's a couple more, although I suck at taking end on pics of razors. First we have McVeyMacs, where at least
the wide part of the spine is across from each other.
Pic doesn't do it justice, but here's mine, the wide part of the spine is significantly offset from each other and it looks
like is changes as it goes down the spine! eek!
Having said that - I may poo-poo it because mine "looks" like a lemon. but it *does* shave. I can't argue with that.
the wide part of the spine is across from each other.
Pic doesn't do it justice, but here's mine, the wide part of the spine is significantly offset from each other and it looks
like is changes as it goes down the spine! eek!
Having said that - I may poo-poo it because mine "looks" like a lemon. but it *does* shave. I can't argue with that.
Great write up. Solving those geometry problems is good training for when you start with something like this.
- Thread starter
- #66
Bring them on! I am not sure what the mail time is in this direction, but if going in your direction is any indicator, I will be lucky to have them when I return from my trip. I will do a side by side drag race just as you have done, and really try to get a good feel for what these razors are capable of in their current configuration. And of course, the results will be posted here.
I am thinking that I will get all geometrical on my GD after shaving with it upon the return. If the measurements indicate >20 degree inclusive bevel angle, I will definitely go to work on the spine a bit to see if I can get it into the 16 degree range. If I do this, I will send it back to you for another go at it. If it is already 18 degrees < 20 degrees, I will probably do the same work on it, but I am not sure that you would be able to realize any significant difference in performance. If you want to try it after the work, or if I feel there is a significant difference, then I think it would be worth while sending it back to you for one more go at it. If it is <18 degrees, I will likely leave it alone and just hone it up and get it ready for PIF.
Regarding your GD razor, I will likely perform the very same measurements regarding bevel angle. After this determination, you can decide if you would like for me to work on it, or if you would want to tackle the problem yourself (if it exists). Other than this, and with your permission, I will likely just hone yours up on my newly acquired Arkansas progression and send it back to you to see how it does against your Filli in the 1/4 mile.
I am thinking that I will get all geometrical on my GD after shaving with it upon the return. If the measurements indicate >20 degree inclusive bevel angle, I will definitely go to work on the spine a bit to see if I can get it into the 16 degree range. If I do this, I will send it back to you for another go at it. If it is already 18 degrees < 20 degrees, I will probably do the same work on it, but I am not sure that you would be able to realize any significant difference in performance. If you want to try it after the work, or if I feel there is a significant difference, then I think it would be worth while sending it back to you for one more go at it. If it is <18 degrees, I will likely leave it alone and just hone it up and get it ready for PIF.
Regarding your GD razor, I will likely perform the very same measurements regarding bevel angle. After this determination, you can decide if you would like for me to work on it, or if you would want to tackle the problem yourself (if it exists). Other than this, and with your permission, I will likely just hone yours up on my newly acquired Arkansas progression and send it back to you to see how it does against your Filli in the 1/4 mile.
- Thread starter
- #67
Holy "that's the funniest joke I ever heard Batman," you have some serious smile to contend with there. It looks very much to me like that blade was hand forged, but it never saw a grinder. If that is the case, it looks like a remarkable job of forging. Murray Carter's Sensei used to always tell him, "forge more, grind less."
Any of that's fine by me, although let's see if my quartet of 66's gets here. I'd hate to have you use that whopperjawed razor on your nice arky's just to have me race the Fili with it. (You should race your NS with mine so I can lose gracefully
) Let's see wherewe're at when you get back from your trip, and if I have a 66 or two to send you.
- Thread starter
- #69
Head to Head Drag Race: While I was on travel, I received the two GD 100s from phat. One I had honed and had sent to him, the other he had honed. Both I and phat have reported our results here. My GD 100 was received with the same edge that I put on it. It probably had 5 or 6 shaves on it. The phat GD 100 I think only had a couple of shaves on it when phat was reporting here on side by side comparisons. I did not strop either razor, I simply wiped the excess oil and washed the blades with soap and shaved with them.
In the Left Lane: MVM GD 100
In the Right Lane: phat GD 100
Strop: None as I expected that phat stropped both razors prior to shipment
Razor: Time Since Last Hone: About 3 to five shaves give or take a few on each razor.
Hones: I honed my GD 100 and phat honed his. Neither I nor phat re honed my GD since the descriptions on it above.
Prep: Shower with facial cleanser, Proraso Green Pre
Brush: Whipped Dog High Mountain Badger
Software: Tabac
Razor: Left Lane, McVeyMac Gold Dollar 100; Right Lane, phat Gold Dollar 100
Growth (days): 3
Method: Three Pass: 1X N-S/WTG, 1X XTG/ATG neck and jaw line, and 1X S-N/ATG. One small pass ATG touchup problems with lather on neck/jaw/chin.
Post: Proraso Green AS Balm, strop 30 on canvas.
Results:
MVM GD 100: Very smooth feeling on the initial WTG pass, and the razor mowed down the 3 day growth fairly well. Better than what I was getting from the Dovo 5/8" the last time that I used it. Likewise, the XTG with S-N on the neck was also very smooth resulting in an almost complete shave. The final ATG pass with an additional ATG neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on BBS shave. I know that phat used this razor on a number of occasions, but the edge is really quite good on it still. I would not put it in the same class as my Nate's Straights, but it clearly out performed my Dovo the last time that I used it with about 15 shaves on it. Completely pleased with the result on the left side of my face.
Phat GD 100: On the initial WTG pass, I tended to notice just a slight more tug while mowing down the 3 day growth, but the result were equally impressive. The XTG with S-N neck second pass was a smooth and clean shave resulting in approximately the same result as on the left side. The 3rd ATG with S-N neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on BBS shave, especially on the cheeks and neck. There is one small spot on the right of my chin at the jaw line that is a historic problem area where the result is less than BBS. But, this could easily be due to technique as I can have this happen with the best razors that I own.
Conclusion: In this side by side drag race, both razors performed very well. Almost as good as the best razors that I own. Given that there is so much technique involved, it is difficult to sort out the results and assigning attribution. I would have to give the slight advantage to the MVM GD 100 as I felt that it tugged a little less on the initial WTG pass, and the historic problem area near the chin was clearly a little better result. To be fair, I think I need to switch lanes and repeat this race because the results were very comparable between these two razors. I can say with confidence that phat can hone a very good razor, and like I said, the shave I got this AM was right up there with the best razors that I own.
Remarks: Both GD 100s performed very well.
Questions: None
Work On: See Journal
In the Left Lane: MVM GD 100
In the Right Lane: phat GD 100
Strop: None as I expected that phat stropped both razors prior to shipment
Razor: Time Since Last Hone: About 3 to five shaves give or take a few on each razor.
Hones: I honed my GD 100 and phat honed his. Neither I nor phat re honed my GD since the descriptions on it above.
Prep: Shower with facial cleanser, Proraso Green Pre
Brush: Whipped Dog High Mountain Badger
Software: Tabac
Razor: Left Lane, McVeyMac Gold Dollar 100; Right Lane, phat Gold Dollar 100
Growth (days): 3
Method: Three Pass: 1X N-S/WTG, 1X XTG/ATG neck and jaw line, and 1X S-N/ATG. One small pass ATG touchup problems with lather on neck/jaw/chin.
Post: Proraso Green AS Balm, strop 30 on canvas.
Results:
MVM GD 100: Very smooth feeling on the initial WTG pass, and the razor mowed down the 3 day growth fairly well. Better than what I was getting from the Dovo 5/8" the last time that I used it. Likewise, the XTG with S-N on the neck was also very smooth resulting in an almost complete shave. The final ATG pass with an additional ATG neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on BBS shave. I know that phat used this razor on a number of occasions, but the edge is really quite good on it still. I would not put it in the same class as my Nate's Straights, but it clearly out performed my Dovo the last time that I used it with about 15 shaves on it. Completely pleased with the result on the left side of my face.
Phat GD 100: On the initial WTG pass, I tended to notice just a slight more tug while mowing down the 3 day growth, but the result were equally impressive. The XTG with S-N neck second pass was a smooth and clean shave resulting in approximately the same result as on the left side. The 3rd ATG with S-N neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on BBS shave, especially on the cheeks and neck. There is one small spot on the right of my chin at the jaw line that is a historic problem area where the result is less than BBS. But, this could easily be due to technique as I can have this happen with the best razors that I own.
Conclusion: In this side by side drag race, both razors performed very well. Almost as good as the best razors that I own. Given that there is so much technique involved, it is difficult to sort out the results and assigning attribution. I would have to give the slight advantage to the MVM GD 100 as I felt that it tugged a little less on the initial WTG pass, and the historic problem area near the chin was clearly a little better result. To be fair, I think I need to switch lanes and repeat this race because the results were very comparable between these two razors. I can say with confidence that phat can hone a very good razor, and like I said, the shave I got this AM was right up there with the best razors that I own.
Remarks: Both GD 100s performed very well.
Questions: None
Work On: See Journal
Last edited:
If its close - as much as that asymmetrically ground thing fought me, I'll take it - because yours was good
I have a "less whopperjawed" 66 here I've done up for round deux..
I have a "less whopperjawed" 66 here I've done up for round deux..
I also have a DMT 325 now.. I didn't when I did that one.... It would have given up sooner on that
- Thread starter
- #72
That razor clearly has some asymmetry going on, but the bevel on both sides do meet at the apex. Like many aspects of the GD razor, it aint pretty, but it works.
- Thread starter
- #73
I have heard it said that you have to choose your ruts wisely, because you will be in them a long time. One of my ruts is that I go to work clean shaven every day. Yesterday's shave was on 3 days worth of beard growth, and the results were an exceedingly close shave. I could have easily skipped the shave this AM, and had a go at it at the end of the day, and I feel that the resulting shave would have been better than I got this AM as it was almost to close to shave.
At any rate, I switched lanes and repeated the same comparison that I made yesterday, with the exception that the phat GD 100 was in the left lane, and the MVM GD 100 was in the right. I also only did a two pass plus a neck cleanup, so I eliminated an XTG pass.
Strop: Tony Miller Heirloom strop. Both razors 60 on leather. Both had 30 on canvas at the end of yesterday's shave.
Razor: Time Since Last Hone: About four to six shaves give or take a few on each razor.
Hones: I honed my GD 100 and phat honed his. Neither I nor phat re honed my GD since the descriptions on it above.
Prep: Shower with facial cleanser, Proraso Green Pre
Brush: Whipped Dog High Mountain Badger
Software: Tabac
Razor: Right Lane, McVeyMac Gold Dollar 100; Left Lane, phat Gold Dollar 100
Growth (days): 1
Method: Two Pass: 1X N-S/WTG, and 1X S-N/ATG. One small pass ATG touchup problems with lather on neck/jaw/chin.
Post: Proraso Green AS Balm, strop 30 on canvas.
Results:
Phat GD 100: On the initial WTG pass, the result were very comparable to yesterday. The 2nd ATG with S-N neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on DFS shave with BBS on the cheeks. The problem neck areas on my left side still had stubble remaining, but no more than typical at this stage of the shave. The clean up neck pass took care of most of the problem leaving me with another very close shave with only a couple small problems on the jaw line. The chin problems realized yesterday on the right are not present today on the left to the same degree.
MVM GD 100: Very smooth feeling on the initial WTG pass, and the razor clearly has a different, and I might add, a more comfortable feel to me. Effective straight razor shaving is a mastery of minutia with respect to angle, pressure and feedback, and I feel that the MVM GD 100 is a more comfortable razor to use. The final ATG pass with an additional ATG neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on BBS shave. The problem area that I had on the right side of the chin yesterday is much better today, albeit it is not full on BBS as there is a very small amount of palpable whisker. It is less than the left side this AM, but still not full on BBS.
Conclusion: In this side by side drag race that has now been repeated by switching hands, I still have to give the slight advantage to the MVM GD 100. However, as stated yesterday, the phat GD 100 still exceeded the shaves I was getting with my Dovo where I also honed that razor. The phat GD 100 pulled ever so slightly more then the MVM one, and the resulting shave was only slightly less comfortable while using it. Both razors gave me an incredible shave this AM, but I have to say that yesterday's shave was bordering on amazing. I think that it is true that I get better results with >1.5 days worth of growth, than I do with shaving every 24 hours. Especially when the resulting shave was as close as the one I got yesterday.
Remarks: Both GD 100s performed very well, again. The next step in the journey will be to measure the bevel angle on both of these razors. If the angle is > 10 DPS, 20 degrees inclusive, I will thin down the spine on each and try to achieve approximately 8.5 DPS for a 17 degree inclusive angle. If the bevel angle is less than 19 degrees inclusive, I will likely leave them both alone. Either way, I will hone the phat GD 100 and return. What I am not sure of is if I will send back to him the MVM GD 100 weather or not I reduce the bevel angle. Hopefully the phat GD 100 will be representative of what my honing is capable of whether or not I reduce the bevel angle. I will post the angle results here, and phat and I can decide on the best next steps.
Questions: None
Work On: See Journal
At any rate, I switched lanes and repeated the same comparison that I made yesterday, with the exception that the phat GD 100 was in the left lane, and the MVM GD 100 was in the right. I also only did a two pass plus a neck cleanup, so I eliminated an XTG pass.
Strop: Tony Miller Heirloom strop. Both razors 60 on leather. Both had 30 on canvas at the end of yesterday's shave.
Razor: Time Since Last Hone: About four to six shaves give or take a few on each razor.
Hones: I honed my GD 100 and phat honed his. Neither I nor phat re honed my GD since the descriptions on it above.
Prep: Shower with facial cleanser, Proraso Green Pre
Brush: Whipped Dog High Mountain Badger
Software: Tabac
Razor: Right Lane, McVeyMac Gold Dollar 100; Left Lane, phat Gold Dollar 100
Growth (days): 1
Method: Two Pass: 1X N-S/WTG, and 1X S-N/ATG. One small pass ATG touchup problems with lather on neck/jaw/chin.
Post: Proraso Green AS Balm, strop 30 on canvas.
Results:
Phat GD 100: On the initial WTG pass, the result were very comparable to yesterday. The 2nd ATG with S-N neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on DFS shave with BBS on the cheeks. The problem neck areas on my left side still had stubble remaining, but no more than typical at this stage of the shave. The clean up neck pass took care of most of the problem leaving me with another very close shave with only a couple small problems on the jaw line. The chin problems realized yesterday on the right are not present today on the left to the same degree.
MVM GD 100: Very smooth feeling on the initial WTG pass, and the razor clearly has a different, and I might add, a more comfortable feel to me. Effective straight razor shaving is a mastery of minutia with respect to angle, pressure and feedback, and I feel that the MVM GD 100 is a more comfortable razor to use. The final ATG pass with an additional ATG neck cleanup resulted in almost a full on BBS shave. The problem area that I had on the right side of the chin yesterday is much better today, albeit it is not full on BBS as there is a very small amount of palpable whisker. It is less than the left side this AM, but still not full on BBS.
Conclusion: In this side by side drag race that has now been repeated by switching hands, I still have to give the slight advantage to the MVM GD 100. However, as stated yesterday, the phat GD 100 still exceeded the shaves I was getting with my Dovo where I also honed that razor. The phat GD 100 pulled ever so slightly more then the MVM one, and the resulting shave was only slightly less comfortable while using it. Both razors gave me an incredible shave this AM, but I have to say that yesterday's shave was bordering on amazing. I think that it is true that I get better results with >1.5 days worth of growth, than I do with shaving every 24 hours. Especially when the resulting shave was as close as the one I got yesterday.
Remarks: Both GD 100s performed very well, again. The next step in the journey will be to measure the bevel angle on both of these razors. If the angle is > 10 DPS, 20 degrees inclusive, I will thin down the spine on each and try to achieve approximately 8.5 DPS for a 17 degree inclusive angle. If the bevel angle is less than 19 degrees inclusive, I will likely leave them both alone. Either way, I will hone the phat GD 100 and return. What I am not sure of is if I will send back to him the MVM GD 100 weather or not I reduce the bevel angle. Hopefully the phat GD 100 will be representative of what my honing is capable of whether or not I reduce the bevel angle. I will post the angle results here, and phat and I can decide on the best next steps.
Questions: None
Work On: See Journal
Great report! I'm looking forward to your bevel angle findings.
lol.. well that's *definately* not the prettiest bevel I've ever put on a razor!
- Thread starter
- #76
Ok, I measured the MVM GD 100 and the phat GD 100 bevel angles, and both of them are in acceptable ranges. The MVM GD 100 is about 9.23 DPS for an 18.45 degree inclusive. The phat GD 100 is about 18.79 degrees inclusive.
I ended up honing both razors with a Chosera 1 K, Arkansas soft, Arkansas hard, Arkansas translucent, and Arkansas black (ultra fine). I have not shave with them yet, but my plan is to perform another side by side shave evaluation, then send the phat GD 100 back to Canada for his evaluation. I'll report my shaving evaluation here before I ship it off.
I ended up honing both razors with a Chosera 1 K, Arkansas soft, Arkansas hard, Arkansas translucent, and Arkansas black (ultra fine). I have not shave with them yet, but my plan is to perform another side by side shave evaluation, then send the phat GD 100 back to Canada for his evaluation. I'll report my shaving evaluation here before I ship it off.
I'm thinking what I'll do (since I haven't shaved with the 66 I have here yet) is await it's arrival, then I'll side by side my '66 against your
return, and send it to you with a lovely example of the finest Ningbo steel butterknife straight out of the box '66 for you to hone and send me back
return, and send it to you with a lovely example of the finest Ningbo steel butterknife straight out of the box '66 for you to hone and send me back
Oh, and my intention was to PIF the 100, non-conus - after I shave with it..
Those are much more acute than my GD66 was.
Acetone also easily and quickly removes it.
