I'm starting to enjoy straight shaving. At least with my shavette. I have two real straights. One was honed "professionally" but I think it left a lot to be desired and got no joy from it. I have another I could practice on. What do I need to get started without dropping a ton of cash on it?
looking for a honing set up. what do I need?
- Thread starter Suggy
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Bevel setter and some film is an inexpensive way to start. Under $100. If you want all hones you will spend more. Norton 4/8 is good, naniwa 12k and chosera 1k will run new around $225 ish. You can get a coti used for 70 ish and use that instead of the nortons and naniwa. Naturals are more of a learning curve imo.
If you are on a hard budget, it's hard to beat the value of lapping film.
You will need a strop if you don't already have one. If you are coming from Shavettes to Straights, that will be a big difference. Also, to help tune that blade in, you can use pastes. Lots like CrOx on balsa or a hanging strop. If you don't have a strop, get an inexpensive Poor Man's Strop Kit from Larry at WhippedDog.com. Good quality leather, and includes a pasted balsa strop.
Depending on what all you want to do (ebay specials, just maintaining blades, occasional bevel set on up, etc.) will dictate what you should get. Most find they wind up wanting a bevel setter in the 1K range. Most find they want a finisher in the 12K or more range, it just depends on what you want to do.
If you aren't happy with the edge you got, you may want to start out with a finisher and see what you can do. A good, inexpensive option that I really enjoyed the edges off of was the Spyderco Ultrafine. They have a 8"x2" and an 8"x3" version. They come flat, NEVER need flattening, are used dry, and can be scrubbed up like a dish. They are true ceramic, and sound like it when honing. Most folks that have used them put them in the 14K range, and I found the edges to be very smooth. It's a slow stone, but I was willing to put the time in, so that wasn't an issue.
LOTS of options out there, and just as many opinions on them. Read some reviews, see if you find something that sounds right for you, and start there.
Depending on what all you want to do (ebay specials, just maintaining blades, occasional bevel set on up, etc.) will dictate what you should get. Most find they wind up wanting a bevel setter in the 1K range. Most find they want a finisher in the 12K or more range, it just depends on what you want to do.
If you aren't happy with the edge you got, you may want to start out with a finisher and see what you can do. A good, inexpensive option that I really enjoyed the edges off of was the Spyderco Ultrafine. They have a 8"x2" and an 8"x3" version. They come flat, NEVER need flattening, are used dry, and can be scrubbed up like a dish. They are true ceramic, and sound like it when honing. Most folks that have used them put them in the 14K range, and I found the edges to be very smooth. It's a slow stone, but I was willing to put the time in, so that wasn't an issue.
LOTS of options out there, and just as many opinions on them. Read some reviews, see if you find something that sounds right for you, and start there.
Oil stones are slow, but cheap. Different approach than the water-stones that normally recommended and a bit of a break-in period and a learning curve too. Medium India (chips), soft Arkansas (bevel setting) / black Arkansas (finishing) combo, honing oil, and a pasted strop (polishing) might set you back ~$125-$150. Check it out at Sharpening Supplies.
You can bevel set on wet dry sandpaper and keep the whole setup under $50. A big part of the expense is that the minimum order on a lot of the lapping films is more than a lifetime supply.
Unless you buy a small set from another user. I got some that way a while ago, thinking that I would use them from time to time. I used them once and they sit in a drawer. Maybe someday I will use them...
And like you said, less than $50.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
A good start would be a barebones setup just for refreshing your edge. $5 gets you a 4x12 polished marble edge tile from Home Depot. Or you might have an old glass coffee table top that you can cut up. Glass flexes, so you want very heavy glass. The sink cutout from a polished granite countertop works, except you can't really hold it in hand, and holding the hone in hand is far superior to laying it on an unyielding, fixed surface for honing. Then comes the actual abrasive media. For simple maintenance honing or edge refreshing, all you really need is 1u film. www.nanolaptech.com has excellent prices and sells in any quantity. If you just want a few sheets, he will work with you. Ordering can be a pain though, so cut through the BS and just phone him directly for best results. At some point he will expect to speak to you on the phone, anyway, so don't bother with the email. My old supplier, www.thorlabs.com is good but doesn't have the selection that George has over at nanolaptech, and thorlabs has a minimum 10 sheet order. Per grit. 10 sheets makes 30 pieces, each piece can handle about a dozen razors, so that's 360 honing sessions, or about 20 years of average consumption. Actually, since thorlabs sells the bigger 9" x 13" sheets, you COULD cut the sheet into 4 pieces, shortways, and still have a 9" long honing surface. Not desireable, but it is adequate.
For a full progression, yes you can set the bevel on a stone but if you won't be setting many bevels, (You should only ever have to set the bevel once on your own razors) it is probably better to simply use coarser film or sandpaper rather than buying a seldom used stone. Nanolaptech has AlOx film all the way up to 60u, which is probably equivelant to around 300 grit sandpaper, so this could be used for edge repair. 15u or 12u can be used to set the bevel. Then go 5u, 3u, and 1u, the most common progression. For a sweeter edge, after finishing with the 1u, apply damp paper to the plate and apply the 1u down over the damp paper, and hone some more. Or save this trick for some real voodoo with .3u film.
Okay, that's film. Now if you want to do it caveman style and rub your razor on a bunch of dumb ol' rocks, there are lots of options. As with the film, you might only need a finisher, for maintenance honing. I can't speak highly enough of the Naniwa 12k SuperStone for this. Or you could go for a jnat, or a slow coticule. The thing about naturals is that large rocks can be very expensive. Smaller rocks leave me wishing for a bigger piece of honing real estate. A rock wide enough to take the entire edge is very satisfying, especially when honing straight edged blades. A stroke of at least 8" is to be recommended. A coticule 200mm x 70mm is going to cost you at least $300. A Jnat, sky is the limit but figure on somewhere north of $500, anyway. Of course you can go with a smaller rock, for waaaaay less money, but I don't like to compromise on hone size, myself. I will say this, though... for a smiley, where a rolling x stroke is needed, a wide stone is not necessary because only part of the edge can contact the stone anyway. One other natural needs to be mentioned... the C12k, which is just a generic term for more or less 12k grit equivelant natural stones quarried in the Guangxi province of China. These are usually of generous size. They cut slowly but not as slow as Arkansas. Speaking of which, there was a time when an Arkie progression was a fairly common setup. It does work, and if you can find nice big stones, especially in the surgical black grade which is your finisher, it is a viable option. Sometimes you find these at garage sales for crazy low prices, sold by folks who don't know much about grandpa's nasty old sharpening stones. I picked up a translucent one time, just under 3" by almost 10" long, for $5. I lapped it and gave it away as a Christmas present to a very appreciative family member. With a full progression of any sort, you will probably also want a coarse repair stone, something around 300 grit. With the Norton series, the 220/1k grit serves the purpose, and you don't use the 220 except for heavy steel removal. The 1k is your bevel setter, then you go on the 4k/8k combo, then a finisher if desired. For other setups a DMT325 is good for removing lots of steel. You can follow with the 600 or go straight to the 1.2k for the bevel setter, then go on with your higher grit synthetics or your natural.
Overall I would have to recommend lapping film. It is very easy to learn. You are likely to get your first decent edge with your first attempt. By the 4th or 5th session you should be getting incredible edges, every bit the equal of what someone with a little experience gets from rocks. High quality naturals in skilled hands can turn out phenomenal edges, but for the newbie the learning curve and startup cost of film should be very attractive.
Practically all stones must be lapped prior to use, and periodically thereafter. A poorly lapped stone will give less than optimum performance.
Whichever way you go, you must do your homework, and read read read. Pay attention to what the hone and what the razor are trying to tell you. Watch for the aural and tactile feedback. Visually observe the edge and bevel, and try to understand what you are looking at. If everyone is telling you one thing, don't expect to do just the opposite without it becoming a harsh learning experience. Stick with tried and true methods until you have achieved a degree of mastery. And remember... FILM is best. It really is that simple.
For a full progression, yes you can set the bevel on a stone but if you won't be setting many bevels, (You should only ever have to set the bevel once on your own razors) it is probably better to simply use coarser film or sandpaper rather than buying a seldom used stone. Nanolaptech has AlOx film all the way up to 60u, which is probably equivelant to around 300 grit sandpaper, so this could be used for edge repair. 15u or 12u can be used to set the bevel. Then go 5u, 3u, and 1u, the most common progression. For a sweeter edge, after finishing with the 1u, apply damp paper to the plate and apply the 1u down over the damp paper, and hone some more. Or save this trick for some real voodoo with .3u film.
Okay, that's film. Now if you want to do it caveman style and rub your razor on a bunch of dumb ol' rocks, there are lots of options. As with the film, you might only need a finisher, for maintenance honing. I can't speak highly enough of the Naniwa 12k SuperStone for this. Or you could go for a jnat, or a slow coticule. The thing about naturals is that large rocks can be very expensive. Smaller rocks leave me wishing for a bigger piece of honing real estate. A rock wide enough to take the entire edge is very satisfying, especially when honing straight edged blades. A stroke of at least 8" is to be recommended. A coticule 200mm x 70mm is going to cost you at least $300. A Jnat, sky is the limit but figure on somewhere north of $500, anyway. Of course you can go with a smaller rock, for waaaaay less money, but I don't like to compromise on hone size, myself. I will say this, though... for a smiley, where a rolling x stroke is needed, a wide stone is not necessary because only part of the edge can contact the stone anyway. One other natural needs to be mentioned... the C12k, which is just a generic term for more or less 12k grit equivelant natural stones quarried in the Guangxi province of China. These are usually of generous size. They cut slowly but not as slow as Arkansas. Speaking of which, there was a time when an Arkie progression was a fairly common setup. It does work, and if you can find nice big stones, especially in the surgical black grade which is your finisher, it is a viable option. Sometimes you find these at garage sales for crazy low prices, sold by folks who don't know much about grandpa's nasty old sharpening stones. I picked up a translucent one time, just under 3" by almost 10" long, for $5. I lapped it and gave it away as a Christmas present to a very appreciative family member. With a full progression of any sort, you will probably also want a coarse repair stone, something around 300 grit. With the Norton series, the 220/1k grit serves the purpose, and you don't use the 220 except for heavy steel removal. The 1k is your bevel setter, then you go on the 4k/8k combo, then a finisher if desired. For other setups a DMT325 is good for removing lots of steel. You can follow with the 600 or go straight to the 1.2k for the bevel setter, then go on with your higher grit synthetics or your natural.
Overall I would have to recommend lapping film. It is very easy to learn. You are likely to get your first decent edge with your first attempt. By the 4th or 5th session you should be getting incredible edges, every bit the equal of what someone with a little experience gets from rocks. High quality naturals in skilled hands can turn out phenomenal edges, but for the newbie the learning curve and startup cost of film should be very attractive.
Practically all stones must be lapped prior to use, and periodically thereafter. A poorly lapped stone will give less than optimum performance.
Whichever way you go, you must do your homework, and read read read. Pay attention to what the hone and what the razor are trying to tell you. Watch for the aural and tactile feedback. Visually observe the edge and bevel, and try to understand what you are looking at. If everyone is telling you one thing, don't expect to do just the opposite without it becoming a harsh learning experience. Stick with tried and true methods until you have achieved a degree of mastery. And remember... FILM is best. It really is that simple.
Another set up for < $150 that comes to mind is a 1.2k/8k JIS King combo water-stone and a coarse 6" x 2" (325x) DMT duo-sharp for lapping. And when the duo-sharp is a little bit worn, it can be used for chips as well. Again, pasted strop for the polish.
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What I use 90% of the time:
Edge repair: DMT 220grit. Frankly, I see no reason to use any other stone for this... ever. It's the fastest option. It requires zero maintenance. It can be used dry. It gives the cleanest edge of any 220grit I've ever used. It shaves arm hair pretty darn well coming off 220grit. It can be used as a lapping plate. It's absurdly cheap for everything it does.
Beveling stone for razors that don't need 220grit work: DMT 1200grit. Same reasons as the 220grit exactly except don't use it as a lapping plate. You can get a 600/1200 combo for cheaper than the 1200 alone which makes going from the 220 to 1.2k a bit faster, but it's not necessary if you find a good price on the 1200 alone. This is my most used stone (not just for razors) by about 10x.
Refinement: DMT 8000grit. Lots of good options here. The 8k isn't as amazing as the lower grit DMT's, but it's still my favorite stone in this range. Gets you from 9micron to 3 micron refinement in seconds (minutes if you're slow) on a hollow ground razor and leaves a very respectable edge for the speed. So aggressive that it CAN turn an edge quite readily, but it's an easy 0.5second fix. Also a solid knife and tool hone for when you need a little more of a touchup than your oilstones can give you.
Beyond: My favorite synths are Sigma powers. I own the 6k, 10k and 13k. The 10k and 13k are perfectly fine razor finishers. All three are brutally fast, easy to use and with good feedback. My favorite naturals are Thuringians (consistent if you are guaranteed it's a REAL thuri... there are lots of fakes out there) and Jnats (lots of bad ones and lots of good ones. Have to shop smart or get lucky). Thuri's for ease of use and a good shaving edge. Jnats for an unparallelled shaving edge.
There are countless other perfectly viable options at all stages. But I've tried a whole, whole lot of stones, and these are what I've settled on as my favorites.
Edge repair: DMT 220grit. Frankly, I see no reason to use any other stone for this... ever. It's the fastest option. It requires zero maintenance. It can be used dry. It gives the cleanest edge of any 220grit I've ever used. It shaves arm hair pretty darn well coming off 220grit. It can be used as a lapping plate. It's absurdly cheap for everything it does.
Beveling stone for razors that don't need 220grit work: DMT 1200grit. Same reasons as the 220grit exactly except don't use it as a lapping plate. You can get a 600/1200 combo for cheaper than the 1200 alone which makes going from the 220 to 1.2k a bit faster, but it's not necessary if you find a good price on the 1200 alone. This is my most used stone (not just for razors) by about 10x.
Refinement: DMT 8000grit. Lots of good options here. The 8k isn't as amazing as the lower grit DMT's, but it's still my favorite stone in this range. Gets you from 9micron to 3 micron refinement in seconds (minutes if you're slow) on a hollow ground razor and leaves a very respectable edge for the speed. So aggressive that it CAN turn an edge quite readily, but it's an easy 0.5second fix. Also a solid knife and tool hone for when you need a little more of a touchup than your oilstones can give you.
Beyond: My favorite synths are Sigma powers. I own the 6k, 10k and 13k. The 10k and 13k are perfectly fine razor finishers. All three are brutally fast, easy to use and with good feedback. My favorite naturals are Thuringians (consistent if you are guaranteed it's a REAL thuri... there are lots of fakes out there) and Jnats (lots of bad ones and lots of good ones. Have to shop smart or get lucky). Thuri's for ease of use and a good shaving edge. Jnats for an unparallelled shaving edge.
There are countless other perfectly viable options at all stages. But I've tried a whole, whole lot of stones, and these are what I've settled on as my favorites.
There are cheaper ways. Large stones are nice but are expensive and if you are just going to sharpen a couple of blades for personal use it's kind of overkill since once you sharpen a blade you can maintain it for a long time just with a strop, pastes, and a cheap finishing stone.
All my stones together are about $70 but it's an odd ball collection. Arkansas Tri-Hone ($20), 4k Water Slip Stone ($15), 8K Water Slip Stone ($20), cut down 12k finishing stone from Whipped Dog ($15).
Most of those are smaller stones but how often are you doing to use them? It depends on you. For me they work.
All my stones together are about $70 but it's an odd ball collection. Arkansas Tri-Hone ($20), 4k Water Slip Stone ($15), 8K Water Slip Stone ($20), cut down 12k finishing stone from Whipped Dog ($15).
Most of those are smaller stones but how often are you doing to use them? It depends on you. For me they work.
If you're justification for buying an oddball mix of very small stones is that you won't use them much, why not just use films? Similar or less cost. Easier to work with. Possibly better finish.
Do you use the open mesh or the diasharp for lapping?
I have the 600/1200 duosharp. I am thinking the diasharp for the 8k.
Do you use the dia or the duo (solid or swarf holes?) Or do you use different models for different grits?
