Same here, buying an Atoma 400, was a really good decision. Currently also considering an Atoma 1200, because that is what Alex Gillmore advises to create slurry on Jnat with.
Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk
Lapping 8k 10k
- Thread starter EricSki
- Start date
Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk
I saw a guy on YouTube lap his with #200 W/D and it took forever.
But he had not wet his stone for 10minutes prior...that's what Naniwa advises.
Just wondering: if I use 3M 77 spray to stick the sandpaper on the granite, will
it come off easily after that?
But he had not wet his stone for 10minutes prior...that's what Naniwa advises.
Just wondering: if I use 3M 77 spray to stick the sandpaper on the granite, will
it come off easily after that?
I would not bother sticking the sandpaper to the granite, just wet the surface and paper on both sides and you are good to go. I did not mention that you will need a couple of sheet as they take a beating, I have used 6-8 sheet in some cases to get the job done YMMV.
Maintaining afterwards only require 1 sheet.
Maintaining afterwards only require 1 sheet.
So I just lapped my 3K/10K Naniwa combo stone....used a Polinet silicon carbide grill marked "80"
I presume thats the grit....couldnt have been easier...threw it on a flat granite tile, wet the
entire area and slow circular motions....took about 10 minutes each side. slow and easy.
Anyway I was just conditioning the stone's surfaces by honing a kitchen knife and I hit the blade into the
stone many times, almost felt like I sliced some stone off...but it still feels smooth. I think
Im going to lap it again tomorrow and keep the knives away.
I presume thats the grit....couldnt have been easier...threw it on a flat granite tile, wet the
entire area and slow circular motions....took about 10 minutes each side. slow and easy.
Anyway I was just conditioning the stone's surfaces by honing a kitchen knife and I hit the blade into the
stone many times, almost felt like I sliced some stone off...but it still feels smooth. I think
Im going to lap it again tomorrow and keep the knives away.
If it felt like a chunk was taken out it probably was. Reflatten before next use and it will be fine.
I re-flattened both sides with the same 80 grit SIC grill....took a bit longer this time.
I think Im going to need to lap these further with a progression of 220>400>600>1000
grit W/D sandpaper. Wonder if I need to pencil in a grid every time I move from one grit up to the next?
I think Im going to need to lap these further with a progression of 220>400>600>1000
grit W/D sandpaper. Wonder if I need to pencil in a grid every time I move from one grit up to the next?
I lapped my 3K/10K stone with a WD progression of 220>400>800>1000>1200
The surfaces are smooth as glass on both sides now....the only bugger is that two
diagonally opposite corners of the stone are now curving down a little....did I use to much
force? I could have sworn I didn't...hope this doesn't affect honing....I'll have to cordon off 1 inch on either side of the stone as out of bounds for my blade to run over.
The surfaces are smooth as glass on both sides now....the only bugger is that two
diagonally opposite corners of the stone are now curving down a little....did I use to much
force? I could have sworn I didn't...hope this doesn't affect honing....I'll have to cordon off 1 inch on either side of the stone as out of bounds for my blade to run over.
Out of flat - not sure that is from force though. But probably not what you want. I have a Naniwa 12k that can warp during wet/dry cycles. Very annoying. If it is not warpage then you were either not lapping on flat surface, not lapping evenly, or rolling the stone somehow. Best if you relap and get it flat.
This is an adequate way to deal with the situation. The Naniwa stones need the surface refreshed often anyway IME. Just let the middle catch up through wear and resurfacing.
There is no benefit to going higher than 320 or 400 grit when resurfacing these stones as they are soft enough to quickly revert to their base grit.
Just to be clear, is there any way you can elaborate on which stones you are referring to when you say "these stones"?
I was responding to Tester28 who had originally posted this.
So I was speaking about the Naniwa SS stones.
Sorry for the confusion. I see that there are other stones in the thread.
I like my atoma 1200 for lapping.
And about an earlier point about a nani12k warping, they sell thin ones and thick ones. From what I have read, the thicker ones do not warp. Some folk with the thin ones, glue them on a backing plate to stiffen them.
But here's my question. Does anyone here use that old japanese method of just lapping two different grit honing stones against each other?
It would be slow, but I wonder if you started every honing session with a quick rubbing of your 8k and 12k against each other, would that maintain them?
And about an earlier point about a nani12k warping, they sell thin ones and thick ones. From what I have read, the thicker ones do not warp. Some folk with the thin ones, glue them on a backing plate to stiffen them.
But here's my question. Does anyone here use that old japanese method of just lapping two different grit honing stones against each other?
It would be slow, but I wonder if you started every honing session with a quick rubbing of your 8k and 12k against each other, would that maintain them?
I know Rob Cosman, a well known Carpenter, used to do this every time.
I would not do it for razors as you are contaminating the high grit stone with the other.
I do this all the time with all of my water stones.
It should be noted that when two stones mate or fit together in all orientations, it is only known that the interface is spherical with the case of flat being spherical with an infinite radius. So just because the stones fit together with no gaps, it does not mean that the stones are flat. Verification of flatness can be done with a straight edge or the three stone method. I find this subject very interesting.
Ah. Interesting.
I suppose you rinse off the stones after, to get rid of stone size cross contamination.
And I think I understand the reason for the third stone. Two stones may eventually fit together, but only because you've eventually made a convex and concave pair that fit perfectly without being flat. Bringing in a third stone will uncover the truth.
I must say, my atoma 1200 is much easier.
I suppose you rinse off the stones after, to get rid of stone size cross contamination.
And I think I understand the reason for the third stone. Two stones may eventually fit together, but only because you've eventually made a convex and concave pair that fit perfectly without being flat. Bringing in a third stone will uncover the truth.
I must say, my atoma 1200 is much easier.
Yes it works pretty well, but if you're honing a lot you will need something more. I have never had an Atoma and don't do diamond plates much. I've maintained my Shapton Glass, shapton pros, Naniwa choseras, Naniwa super stones, Suehiros, Rika, etc. By rubbing them together for many years. That's for knives. And I'm learning that it's fine for knives but not really quite good enough for razors.
So lately I've been flattening everything better with SiC powder on a steel plate and then more rubbing together. I use the BBW side of my coticules a lot to condition my Jnats and coticules. I use my washita to condition my translucent and hard arks.
I'm diligent about it and am constantly doing it to my synthetics. It cleans the swarf which increases the cutting power, it helps maintain flatness, it creates a nice clean level cutting surface. They sell little nagura that are made out of the same material as a chosera or a super stone, but you already have invested in a full size nagura IMO.
I also like to use one side of the stone for razors and one for knives. Doesn't work for Glass obviously. The knife work dishes faster but I can keep the razor side dead flat with little effort. The thicker super stones are a lot less prone to warpage BTW. My 2k has been going strong in a pro kitchen for about ten years. I clean it and level it with a Shapton Pro 1000. It stays very flat and clean through heavy use.
I don't worry too much about contamination. I just keep types of stones segregated. Don't mix oil and water or synthetic and natural. If anything I would be more worried about contaminating everything with each other through the diamond plate. An 8k shapton pro won't really do too much to damage a 12k and neither will an 4 or a 2. Just rinse them off thoroughly. It's not the same risk and issues as dealing, with say, diamonds and pastes.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I would question the supposition that the three stone method is a perfect arbiter of flatness, actually. The theory makes sense. In the real world, there is over-run to contend with. I believe the three stone method can APPROACH true flat, and that in a perfect world it would approach it infinitely close, but we do not live in a perfect world, nor do we hone in one.
Your analysis of the two stone problem is spot on, I believe.
You're probably right when it comes to flattening hones. Over-run, and slurry certainly come into play. You know that your sandpaper wears faster in the center too
and I've seen plenty of diamond plates with worn out centers. I tend to think of hone surfaces as near flat curved surfaces with very large radii. As long as the radii are large enough, I consider the hone flat enough for my purposes. A straight edge is my friend.If you want to mentally explore these spherical effects look into telescope mirror grinding. The mirror grinders are actually after a parabaloid shape, but it is very close to spherical and they utilize the fact that the physics of lapping two blanks together 'tries' to yield a spherical interface. When they are getting close they can manipulate the radius of the interface by varying the stroke length. A longer stroke deepens the dish, and a shorter stroke flattens it. A neutral stroke is considered 33% of the mirror diameter center over center. After they have an optically perfect spherical polished surface they 'figure' it to the parabaloid using optical tests to 'see' what they are doing. Quite fascinating.
Here's a picture of an intentionally concave, small ark rubbing stone made at TSS. The idea was to maintain his convex arks, of which I have one. But so far I don't need to maintain my black translucent ark, as it's so hard. Also the convexity of the black ark should hold up for many years.
Rather, I've used the little rubbing stone a few times to maintain a nani12. My idea was that the concavity of the rubbing stone means that as I swirl it around the nani, it will counteract the nani's tendency to dish in the middle. This ark is very slow though, so so far it just cleans off swarf.
Have not done it enough to know yet, but I have a metal square and I'll see. If I did it a ton of times I could reverse dishing in the nani and induce convexity instead.
In the photograph the little ark rubbing stone is sitting on an atoma 1200, which I know is flat because it's on a metal plate. And I glued an atoma 400 sheet on the other side of the metal plate.
Rather, I've used the little rubbing stone a few times to maintain a nani12. My idea was that the concavity of the rubbing stone means that as I swirl it around the nani, it will counteract the nani's tendency to dish in the middle. This ark is very slow though, so so far it just cleans off swarf.
Have not done it enough to know yet, but I have a metal square and I'll see. If I did it a ton of times I could reverse dishing in the nani and induce convexity instead.
In the photograph the little ark rubbing stone is sitting on an atoma 1200, which I know is flat because it's on a metal plate. And I glued an atoma 400 sheet on the other side of the metal plate.
Similar threads
