Lanolin & Tallow. How to understand is there any tallow in a soap?

[RazorDan]

How to understand is there any soap contain tallow (fat) on it's ingredients?

Question: What components should be included in a soap in order to be regarded as Tallow (fatty) soap?

Potassium Tallowate, Sodium Tallowate, Tallow or other with the word "tallow"?

When I asked the same question about fatty (tallow) soap (on another resource) I was said I have to look a soap which is contain lanolin. Because lanolin (as being said) is an animal fat.

I have looked at google about lanolin and noticed that the statement (lanolin = animal fat) doesn't correspond to what was said to me. (Maybe I understood wrong.)

Can you please give me your 0.2$ about my question? (I mean would you care to comment it statement ?)

Kind regards and sorry if this issue was raised recently.

 

[ackvil]

Technically, lanolin is not a fat. Rather, it is a wax that is secreted from certain glands of sheep. Lanolin is not the same as tallow. Sheep are not harmed or killed to extract the lanolin. Tallow, on the other hand, is made from rendering suet, which is the hard, white fatty layer that surrounds an animal’s organs.

The distinction between the two is why lanolin can appear in soaps and not generate protests from the animal rights crowd while tallow does.

 

[emwolf]

 

[Butzy]

yeah, lanolin is not animal fat first of all...
The two have totally different properties in soap making. Most soaps with lanolin also have tallow, but not necessarily the other way around. Soaps with lanolin usually need some sort of fatty ingredient to round out the product.

 

[wgn!]

Per Wikipedia (because the internet is always right)

"Tallow is a render form of beef or mutton fat."
"Lanolin, also called wool wax or wool grease, is a wax secreted by the sebaceous glands of wool-bearing animals."

So, obviously, they are not the same. I think you were correct to check the ingredients for tallow or any of the chemical tallowates (not sure if that's an actual word). Arko is a good tallow soap. I use it almost every day and recommend it highly. The most commonly reference lanolin soap that I know of (since I see it praised on here all of the time) is MWF. I've never used it personally but as I said I've seen it praised here a lot.

 

[RayClem]

Chemically, tallow is a combination of animal fats composed largely of palmitic, stearic, an oleic acids with other minor components. Of course, palmitic and oleic acids are also common in vegetable sources. Stearic acid is less common in plants, but is present in cocoa butter and shea butter.

Lanolin is comprised of waxy esters extracted from wool. Lanolin is not a fat acid, as it not contain glycerides. When fats are saponified using sodium and/or potassium hydroxide, the reaction liberates glycerin. Because it is not a triglyceride (fat), lanolin cannot be saponified.

Although tallow soaps are generally considered to be good for shaving, a shaving soap can be made from fatty acids derived from vegetable sources that will have similar performance.

Although soaps like Mitchell's Wool Fat contain lanolin, the lanolin is only a additive to a soap produced by saponification of fats.

 

[RazorDan]

Technically, lanolin is not a fat. Rather, it is a wax that is secreted from certain glands of sheep. Lanolin is not the same as tallow. Sheep are not harmed or killed to extract the lanolin. Tallow, on the other hand, is made from rendering suet, which is the hard, white fatty layer that surrounds an animal’s organs.

The distinction between the two is why lanolin can appear in soaps and not generate protests from the animal rights crowd while tallow does.

Ackvil, thank you very much for your detailed response. Now it's clear to me.

yeah, lanolin is not animal fat first of all...
The two have totally different properties in soap making. Most soaps with lanolin also have tallow, but not necessarily the other way around. Soaps with lanolin usually need some sort of fatty ingredient to round out the product.

Hi, Butzy. Thank you !

The most commonly reference lanolin soap that I know of (since I see it praised on here all of the time) is MWF. I've never used it personally but as I said I've seen it praised here a lot.

wgn! Thank you I will try it in a future.

Although soaps like Mitchell's Wool Fat contain lanolin, the lanolin is only a additive to a soap produced by saponification of fats.

RayClem thank you.


Gentlemans thank you very very much for your replies! One point I did not understand a bit (sorry me) Which word in ingredients of a shaving soaps should I watch in order to understand that a soap is fatty? (What I have to look in ingredients of a soap? I mean what word (component) ? A keyword that help me to understand that soap is fatty? ((A component with a word (or with the root) "tallow"? (

 

[RayClem]

Sometime the ingredient listing will provide the names of the source of the fats such as : tallow, palm oil, palm kernel oil, coconut oil, olive oil, cocoa butter, shea butter; etc. In other cases, the list will list the specific fatty acids used: stearic, palmitic, oleic, myristic, lineolic, etc. In some cases, you will see a listing of the sodium or potassium salts of the fatty acids that are produce by saponification using sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide. That will be such things as: sodium stearate, potassium palmitate, etc. Any of these designations are an indication of the fats used to produce the soap.

 

[alex2363]

Technically, lanolin is not a fat. Rather, it is a wax that is secreted from certain glands of sheep. Lanolin is not the same as tallow. Sheep are not harmed or killed to extract the lanolin. Tallow, on the other hand, is made from rendering suet, which is the hard, white fatty layer that surrounds an animal’s organs.

The distinction between the two is why lanolin can appear in soaps and not generate protests from the animal rights crowd while tallow does.

Very interesting thanx

 

[RazorDan]

Sometime the ingredient listing will provide the names of the source of the fats such as : tallow, palm oil, palm kernel oil, coconut oil, olive oil, cocoa butter, shea butter; etc. In other cases, the list will list the specific fatty acids used: stearic, palmitic, oleic, myristic, lineolic, etc. In some cases, you will see a listing of the sodium or potassium salts of the fatty acids that are produce by saponification using sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide. That will be such things as: sodium stearate, potassium palmitate, etc. Any of these designations are an indication of the fats used to produce the soap.

RayClem, big THANKS!!!! May I ask you again, please? (If my questions did not bother you yet): but.... how to understand, for example one soap is more "fatty" than other soap?

Today I bought Cella shaving soap. I shaved my face with the Cella shaving soap. After shaving my face felt and looked great. I didn't feel any contraction (tightening) of my face. This is the first BBS and comfortable shaving for all my life using DE Razor + your own recommendation and advice. (Thank you Ray, Akvill, Alex2363, BigJ and other Gentleman's for answering on my questions )

A also have L'occitane Cade shaving soap. It's a great soap as well. I shaved my face several times using L'occitane Cade shaving soap and felt a bit contraction (tightening) of my face.

You have mentioned (if I understood you properly) :

Sometime the ingredient listing will provide the names of the source of the fats such as

In other cases,

In some cases, you will see a listing of

But if I see in a soap all ingredients from your list simultaneously?

Cella shaving soap ingredients: Cocos Nucifera (Coconut Oil), Tallow, Stearic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Aqua (Water), Potassium Carbonate, Parfum (Fragrance).

In the Cella shaving soap ingredients I see all ingredients as you have mentioned previously.
I see: Coconut Oil, Tallow, Potassium Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide. All of this fats (and fatty acids) do indicate fat content of a soap. (If I understood you clearly.)

L'occitane Cade shaving soap ingredients: Potassium Palmate - Sodium Palmate - Potassium Palm Kernelate - Aqua/Water - Sodium Palm Kernelate - Glycerin - Parfum/Fragrance - Juniperus Oxycedrus Wood Oil - Fusanus Spicatus Wood Oil - Helichrysum Italicum (Flower) Oil - Cera Alba/Beeswax - Rosemarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract - Rosemarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Oil - Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil - Hordeum Vulgare Extract - Sodium Chloride - Octyldodecanol - Palm Kernel Acid - Cocoglycerides - Pentasodium Pentetate - Tetrasodium Etidronate - Polyglyceryl-2 Dipolyhydroxystearate - Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate - Tocopheryl Acetate - Magnesium Sulfate - Sodium Benzoate - CI77891/Titanium Dioxide

In the L'occitane Cade shaving soap ingredients I also see a lot of ingredients you were mentioned.

- When I shaved my face with the Cella soap I didn't feel tightening.
- When I shave my face with the L'occitane Cade shaving soap I felt a bit tightening of my face.



The question: If I see all (or a lot of) ingredients from your list together , on what most valuable indicator should I pay attention?

I mean which indicator (names of the source) you listed above will show that when I shave my face I won't fell any tightening (contraction) like in the case of L'occitane Cade shaving soap?

The only reason I am asking to understand why one soap causes tightening of my face while another doesn't.

Kind regards, please sorry if I bother anyone.

 

[RazorDan]

Which of these indicators shows the most specific fat ? The king of the fat... (Sorry for a "philistine" terminology, tried to say by my own words ["call a spade a spade"])

 

[BigJ]

Excellent discussion!

 

[carel]

Not sure if all labels are done the same, but here for instance the ingredients lists are from most to least in products. But actual volume per item is never revealed.

 

[RazorDan]

Does it make sense to move the thread from Shave Clinic & Newbie Check-In to the General Shaving Discussion ?

 

[RazorDan]

actual volume per item is never revealed.

Thank you for the comment. I am not going to "dig so deep". I am interested to find difference between tallow soap.

Regards,

Dan

 

[rivieraranch]

It is obvious that the animal rights crowd feels that 'tallow is murder'. I do not think it stops with tallow. I am sure they likewise object to 'taking' or 'stealing' lanolin from the animal under some kind of rights analysis.

 

[NStorm]

but.... how to understand, for example one soap is more "fatty" than other soap?

If you are referring to a residual fats in soap I don't think this is the case. Fats are transformed in a soap during the saponification process. It doesn't matters if it was animal source fats (tallow) or vegetable oils (like palm or coconut oils) in these terms. Surely the base of the soap affects it's properties but one doesn't makes soap more "fatty" over another. It's about hydroxide to fats/oils ratio but you will never know that. And I guess it always should be balanced to keep as less residual unsaponified fatty acids left as possible.
Your post-shave feel might not be associated with soap base at all (or it may be). It might be related to any other ingredient presented in L'occitane that gives you this.

 

[jldallas]

If you see Potassium Tallowate, Sodium Tallowate or Tallow in the ingredient list, you're looking at a soap that has been produced from at least some tallow.

If you see tallow in the list, you're also going to see Potassium Hydroxide and/or Sodium Hydroxide. That maker is listing the ingredients added before saponification. If you see Potassium Tallowate and/or Sodium Tallowate, the maker is listing what is in the soap after saponification has occurred. Tallow + Potassium Hydroxide produces Potassium Tallowate, Tallow + Sodium Hydroxide makes Sodium Tallowate.

And tallow doesn't mean fatty soap, vegetable sources of oil used in soap making are basically fats also.

 

[Useless shaver]

The distinction between the two is why lanolin can appear in soaps and not generate protests from the animal rights crowd while tallow does.

Spot on!

 

[RazorDan]

If you see Potassium Tallowate, Sodium Tallowate or Tallow in the ingredient list, you're looking at a soap that has been produced from at least some tallow.

Mr. Jldallas thank you for the comment !

f you see tallow in the list, you're also going to see Potassium Hydroxide and/or Sodium Hydroxide. That maker is listing the ingredients added before saponification. If you see Potassium Tallowate and/or Sodium Tallowate, the maker is listing what is in the soap after saponification has occurred. Tallow + Potassium Hydroxide produces Potassium Tallowate, Tallow + Sodium Hydroxide makes Sodium Tallowate.