Language in the home/bilingualism

[thunderball]

I would be interested in knowing if any of you gents fall into any of the following groups:

1) You grew up speaking a language at home that was different from the dominant language in the area where you lived.

2) You had parents with native languages different from each other.

3) You are now raising children to be bilinguals in your own home.

4) You have managed to become proficient in a second language through your own efforts/exposure.

Aside from being and English teacher and just finishing my dissertation on second language learning, I also have a one-year-old daughter whom we are trying to raise as a bilingual. Though my wife and I are both proficient in both languages, I speak to my daughter in only English while my wife uses only Japanese. I realize that as she moves out into the outside world more (ie. attending school) her English language development will take a back seat to her Japanese development and we will then have to explore other avenues/methods if we really want her to be bilingual.


* For those of you in group 1 above, were there any rules in the home/outside the home about language use? Did you retain the language you used at home as you became an adult? Did you ever feel uncomfortable or strange about your situation?

* For those of you in group 2 above, were there any rules in the home concerning language? We are trying the 1 parent, 1 language thing at the moment. Did you retain both languages?

*For those of you in group 3 above, how are you going about it? Rules, advice, ideas, results?

*For those of you in group 4 above how did you do it? How has it benefitted you?


Thanks to everyone for reading.

 

[rabidpotatochip]

I grew up in an English/Dutch household and had to learn French from Grade 1 to Grade 8. Dutch was actually my first language, and in fact, I barely spoke English at all until I got into school. The hardest part is developing both languages at the same time without the kid thinking the non-local language is for "private talks in front of strangers" only.

Where group 1 is concerned, there weren't many rules. Because my parents are native Dutch speakers it just happened most of the time in the home. Because they'll be exposed to so much English outside of your efforts (television, other kids, the local population, stores, etc) they'll pick it up fairly well on their own. Growing up I definitely felt strange knowing another language and was ostracized. For a while in my life I was actually embarrassed to speak Dutch because I stood out too much. Sometimes I still feel a bit weird speaking Dutch, but it's majorly helped my career and let me build a worldwide network, so yay for that.

My parents tried to do the one parent speaks English, one speaks Dutch thing... despite hearing good things about it, my family found it confusing and weird. What we found worked best was to read Dutch story books together and try to speak Dutch as much as possible at home. Out of three kids I'm the only one that's still able to speak the language fluently but it's because I put in a lot of hours relearning what I'd forgotten when I went through the "too embarrassed to use the skill" phase. At age 16 I was reading Dutch at a grade 2 level. "Florie de Groene Kip" (Florie the green chicken) was the one that started it all. I got my parents to write out lists of words with each of the vowel sounds, kind of like in school, and tried to read the lists out loud. Eventually it got to the point that I could guess words just by looking at them. When we got net access, I tried to find Dutch websites and read those, along with more kids stories. Eventually I traded books with cousins because English books are so expensive there and Dutch books are non-existent here. I guess that kind of ties into question #4.

I plan to raise my kids to speak Dutch, once I have them. Mrs. Chip is going to learn Dutch and we're going to try speaking it together. She already understands enough to get me in trouble sometimes, so that's good. Again, I think it's best that both parents use the language, this time for another reason though, accents. My father is from the North, my mother is from the South... I heard my mother speak Dutch the most so I picked up her accent, so much so people think I hail from a small province in the south. If I hadn't heard my father's Dutch, I'd have a hell of a time understanding anyone from his area. My point is that you should also speak Japanese.

I also consider myself a part of group #4, and this is something you will have to deal with... your kids might not want to learn Japanese or use it. My brother never really got over all the stupid stuff in school and as a result, he's pretty much forgotten the language. He regrets it now, but I don't think he's ever going to try getting it back. Anyway, make sure your kids are interested in it. Make them understand the importance and give them every chance to use it. Because I live in a French/English community I don't get a lot of chances to use Dutch and I notice that if I go a few weeks without I forget words and it's hard to make some of the sounds. When I'm in the Netherlands, I can get my accent fully native within a week or two but hearing too many people speaking at once gives me a splitting headache. Once your kids pick up enough of the language though, they'll be able to guess words they don't know, probably correctly. As to how relearning my language has benefited me, I feel it's helped me create my identity and it's opened a lot of doors in international business as well as being able to communicate with my international family members. It's also handy borrowing words from either language to express an idea, that's also how Mrs. Chip is learning by osmosis. hehe

I hope this helps you and I wish you all the best in this. From what I've seen, it's not going to be easy.

(Yikes, my longest post on B&B to date)

 

[BarryR]

I would be interested in knowing if any of you gents fall into any of the following groups:

1) You grew up speaking a language at home that was different from the dominant language in the area where you lived.

2) You had parents with native languages different from each other.

3) You are now raising children to be bilinguals in your own home.

4) You have managed to become proficient in a second language through your own efforts/exposure.

* For those of you in group 2 above, were there any rules in the home concerning language? We are trying the 1 parent, 1 language thing at the moment. Did you retain both languages?

*For those of you in group 3 above, how are you going about it? Rules, advice, ideas, results?

*For those of you in group 4 above how did you do it? How has it benefitted you?


Thanks to everyone for reading.

1) No. Grew up speaking English.

2) My father's from Lithuania and his father was a Russian Jew (who emigrated to Lithuania). His parents spoke Russian to each other but the three of them spoke to each other in Yiddish. My mother's from the Bronx so her native language is very similar to English. We were brought up pretty much speaking English (with a teeny bit of Yiddish). I've often told my father he should have taught us Russian growing up, but I don't think they had any emotional attachment to Russian. They may have had an emotional attachment to Yiddish, but my father is much more practical than sentimental and always told me "If you speak Yiddish and English you can travel all over the world and be understood" (this was his tongue-in-cheek way of saying Yiddish was not a very useful / practical language to learn.

3) My wife is (native) Japanese. We have seven y/o son who (through her hard efforts) is completely bilingual. We live in Western Massachusetts and she drives him 80 minutes each way on Saturdays to a Japanese language school near Boston. He likes it and is proud to be able to speak two languages, but I realize he may show some resistance as he grows older and prefers to be out playing with his friends. There are no rules in the house about which language to speak though my wife and son speak almost entirely Japanese to each other. I sometimes insist on some English since I miss so much of the nuances (or even the basics) when they're speaking Japanese.

4) I have studied Spanish (because I knew it would be useful as an MD) and can do a decent exam and take an OK history. I put a bit of effort into it (two semesters of Spanish, a 2 week trip to Cuernevaca for Spanish school, etc). It's great to be able to do some basics without needing an interpreter.

I also studied Japanese (semi-intensely) for 1.5 years when I lived in Japan (in the mid '80's). My Japanese is way below fluent, but I speak some.


And that reminds me of a joke:
What do you call someone who speaks several languages?
A polyglot.


What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
Bilingual.

What do you call someone who speaks one language?
American.

I would think the difficult language would be the one that's not native to where you're living, so perhaps you should try and speak more English at home as she'll get lot's of Japanese elsewhere. Good luck with your efforts. I think it's great for the kid!

 

[GoldenMonkey]

(Yikes, my longest post on B&B to date)

LOL...WOW, Chip...I was gonna say...loquacious!

 

[thunderball]

Thanks Chip and BarryR for your awesome responses! Every little bit of info and advice I can get my hands on helps.

 

[Bluestaco]

I fall into category 4.
I had always aspired to learn a second language and started hanging out with a Spaniard, so I figured, "What the hell; free tutor," and enrolled in Spanish 101 when I was about 22. He moved away, but I started dating a Spanish girl whose English was about equal to my Spanish. It was awkward, but we both learned to communicate better.

I went back to school at 33, and I ended up minoring in Spanish because I was really good at it. I did REALLY well academically, phenomenal (according to some professors) for someone who learned Spanish the hard way and at such a late age.

It is not nearly as helpful as I thought it would be, despite living in an area with a huge Hispanic population. I hardly ever speak it. I watch a TV show once in a while, but since my wife does not know Spanish, I have no use for it. Sadly, my ability with Spanish has dwindled.

Still, from an intellectual and personal perspective, it is the only really intelligent decision I have ever made. I feel that it is still a gift I gave myself. I can appreciate other traditions better, make different friends (if and when I have the opportunity), and access beautiful literature.

Any speaker of another language who does not raise their children to have both languages is negligent. A second language is a divine gift.

 

[BarryR]

Thanks Chip and BarryR for your awesome responses! Every little bit of info and advice I can get my hands on helps.

One other thing - if it's of any use. Every summer my wife & son go to Japan for about six weeks. For four weeks she puts him in the same Japanese day school that she went to as a child. The principal there has been very supportive (if his Japanese was not so good, apparently they wouldn't have allowed it). I think that's helped too as he gets some mainstream intense exposure with his peers.

 

[mretzloff]

* For those of you in group 1 above, were there any rules in the home/outside the home about language use? Did you retain the language you used at home as you became an adult? Did you ever feel uncomfortable or strange about your situation?

There were no rules. I have retained the German language from childhood until now. I'm only 18, so I may not be the best "test subject". I do not feel strange. I believe that bilingualism is a gift, as long as one is also proficient in the native language.

* For those of you in group 2 above, were there any rules in the home concerning language? We are trying the 1 parent, 1 language thing at the moment. Did you retain both languages?

My mother is can speak English and German fluently. My father can only speak English fluently. There never was a problem. My mother would teach us and my father would encourage us to master a second language. I do remember how my siblings and I would speak German whenever we did not want our father to understand us. That drove him up a wall

 

[nikkuchan]

I fall into group number 4

I did a one year exchange to Japan in High School. Since there pretty much no Japanese langauage learning resources where I lived, I went to Japan knowing virtually NO Japanese whatsoever. I was sent to a high school that had just became co-ed (it was previously a girls school), but there were almost no male students. After a few weeks of having girls run away from me and being too shy to speak with me I finally made some friends. Through various means we found ways to communicate I started learning from them.

I wanted some sort of Japanese language class so I could actually learn, but my exchange group wouldn't allow it (they're exact words were "you came here to learn the culture, not the language"). So I grabbed my text book and used it as a reference when e-mailing/texting my friends (that's the dominant form of cell phone communcation over actually calling people). I didn't actually sit down and study, instead I used it whenever I needed to find out how to say something. In a couple months I was actually able to communicate fairly well (albeit like a girl).

After my exchange I continued studying Japanese in college along with various linguistics classes, language learning, and various Japanese culture and history classes. I transferred to a Language university in Japan to learn other things like Japanese socio-linguistics and essay writing.

After I graduated I got a job with Nikko City, and here I am.

 

[Sue]

My husband did not speak english or hear the english language until he began kindergarten. His mother had been smuggled out of Belgium by family friends as their child by ship. Her parents were killed during the siege on Belgium prior to WWII. They led a reclusive life out of fear.

He then went to live in an english speaking home with the start of school but initially only spoke french.

As an adult he did not remember any french, not one word.

(As an aside, he remembered drining beer with meals) Selective memory?
Sue

 

[rabidpotatochip]

LOL...WOW, Chip...I was gonna say...loquacious!

Yeah, I know... little uncharacteristic.

Thanks Chip and BarryR for your awesome responses! Every little bit of info and advice I can get my hands on helps.

You're welcome. Again, I hope it helps.

My husband did not speak english or hear the english language until he began kindergarten. His mother had been smuggled out of Belgium by family friends as their child by ship. Her parents were killed during the siege on Belgium prior to WWII. They led a reclusive life out of fear.

He then went to live in an english speaking home with the start of school but initially only spoke french.

As an adult he did not remember any french, not one word.

(As an aside, he remembered drining beer with meals) Selective memory?
Sue

What kid from that region doesn't have fond memories of drinking with their parents?

 

[Sue]

What kid from that region doesn't have fond memories of drinking with their parents?

That was Redford, Michigan
Sue

 

[rabidpotatochip]

That was Redford, Michigan
Sue

I stand by my comment.

 

[Luc]

Interesting post Dave.

I do not fit in any category but do speak French and English. Both my parents only speak French. They know a few words in English but that's about it. The neighbour in front had parents that only spoke English. My mom's dream was for us to do the morning in French and the afternoon in English (or the other way around...).

We both grew up teaching the other language to the other. Of course, I had my English classes at school from grade 3 until I finished school. If I have kids, they will be speaking English and French for sure. I do hope that I will be able to learn another language before I get kids so they can learn 3.

 

[AdrianR]

I fall into categories 3 and 4. I married a Mexican and we went to live in her hometown, our daughter was born there (she's now 6).

3. From the off, daughter has always been spoken to in Spanish by her mom, and only occasionally in English by me. However, we have a bilingual satellite TV service and the little one has pretty much always watched kids shows and Disney movies in English. Result - she seems to understand English well enough but cannot speak it so well and prefers not to.

However, when we were on vacation this year in Ontario, we stayed with wife's friends, who have two boys of 5 and 7 years and monolingual Canucks both. Our daughter managed to make herself understood quickly enough with them and within a few days could converse, in English, surprisingly well. It was almost as if the knowledge was latent and only came out when there was not option BUT speaking in English. Towards the end of that week, I said something to her in Spanish and she childishly admonished me, "Speak in English, Daddy!".

4. I took some formal, classroom lessons in Spanish before moving to Mexico and managed to grasp the fundamentals of verb formation and tense fairly well. It was difficult, for the first 18 months after moving, as my vocabulary had to develop and I was lazy about self-study. There was no opportunity for classes in our town, and wifey spoke to me in English 'cos it was easier for her. I picked up a lot of very bad slang and informal usage, which was useful when dealing with cops, but never really applied myself - say, by learning 5 new verbs and 5 new nouns every day. I had thought that I would learn Spanish by some osmotic process - how wrong I was!

 

[rm71]

Both my parents are from southern italy. As kids, we were spoken to in Italian. All my brothers and sisters communicate with my mum in Italian(southern Italian dialect). I then learnt Japanese after a six and a half year stint in Japan.

 

[R. E. Dillon]

I would be interested in knowing if any of you gents fall into any of the following groups:

1) You grew up speaking a language at home that was different from the dominant language in the area where you lived.

2) You had parents with native languages different from each other.

3) You are now raising children to be bilinguals in your own home.

4) You have managed to become proficient in a second language through your own efforts/exposure.

Aside from being and English teacher and just finishing my dissertation on second language learning, I also have a one-year-old daughter whom we are trying to raise as a bilingual. Though my wife and I are both proficient in both languages, I speak to my daughter in only English while my wife uses only Japanese. I realize that as she moves out into the outside world more (ie. attending school) her English language development will take a back seat to her Japanese development and we will then have to explore other avenues/methods if we really want her to be bilingual.


* For those of you in group 1 above, were there any rules in the home/outside the home about language use? Did you retain the language you used at home as you became an adult? Did you ever feel uncomfortable or strange about your situation?

* For those of you in group 2 above, were there any rules in the home concerning language? We are trying the 1 parent, 1 language thing at the moment. Did you retain both languages?

*For those of you in group 3 above, how are you going about it? Rules, advice, ideas, results?

*For those of you in group 4 above how did you do it? How has it benefitted you?


Thanks to everyone for reading.

I grew up with a Grandpa that'd get drunk and curse in Irish, does that count? I can't order diner in the auld language, but I can tell someone where to shove their ewe...

 

[Lynchmeister]

I fall into #4, having managed to become proficient in German through my own efforts/exposure. I can tell you that it was not easy and took a long time (a student of 15 years give or take) and I still have a ways to go.

My love of all things German really came about as a fluke. In 8th grade we were offered the choice of an elective language class: Spanish (nah...everybody does Spanish), French (cool! Nobody takes French!), or German (huh?...wait, Adam and Andy and Dave and Carl are taking German?...let the peer pressure linger for a moment...wait for it...Yes! Sign me up!)

15-ish years, too many inadequate Jr/Sr. High and college German classses, and a handful of foreign exchanges and intensive language courses later, I feel that I have an intermediate grasp on the language. It is definitely interesting, though, how well the cliche "like riding a bike" fits. When I'm in a situation to use it, I tend to fall into rhythym in no time.

At any rate, I think what you (and all parents who raise multi-lingual children) are doing is something really great and really special! I wish you and your children all the best in their linguistic endeavors!

This thread has inspired me to get online and polish my skills!

 

[rabidpotatochip]

(large snip, sorry ) I had thought that I would learn Spanish by some osmotic process - how wrong I was!

I find there are very few people that are capable of learning a language without great efforts to study it. Mrs. Chip seems to be one of those people, even though she doesn't believe it. When my grandmother visited for a few weeks some years ago, she believed that as long as she said things clearly enough and often enough (and waved her hands and included some bizarre interpretive dance enough...), Mrs. Chip would eventually understand her. The funny thing is that this really worked...

 

[Pureslab]

#4

have been living in Thailand off and on for 10 years so picked up the language, never really studied it (repetition breeds familiarity) - useless language anywhere else except in Laos.

Our kids are in an English language international school and they spent the early parts of their childhood in USA so they are really fluent in both languages.