Kai captain or Feather Artist club DX

[exocet]

it seems that the head is quite the same between those 2 "shavettes" but the DX is like two times more expensive than the Kai.
Do they shave the same or do you feel any difference between the two ?
Is the Feather worth it ?
thanks in advance

 

[EclipseRedRing]

I cannot comment on the Kai as I only have the Feather and used it today. Like all Feather products, and most Japanese products, the Artist Club DX is superbly designed and manufactured. Paired with the Professional blades it is the most unforgiving razor I have ever used by far and will punish the slightest loss of concentration. However, it rewards practice and attention to technique like no other razor. The Feather gives me the closest shave I have ever experienced and I recommend it without hesitation.

 

[exocet]

it is gorgeous indeed !

 

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I made an offer on Ebay for a feather DX for $120 and the guy took it, new in the box. Very nice razor, never used the Kai


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[exocet]

great bargain !

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

I think the DX is more than worth it. You can probably find a used one here for much less than retail. Just to confuse you more, take a look at the Kai Captain Excelia also.

 

[exocet]

I saw the excelcia but I do not like the look of it.

 

[haggis]

I suspect it comes down to aesthetic preferences.

The nice thing about *any* of these AC razors is that you can fine tune them to your preferences with the fairly wide assortment of blades from guarded to low exposure to high exposure unguarded.

I have a Kai captain kamisori and it is Just Fine. I use it sometimes AGT under my nose if a straight edge is giving me fits. It Just Works. I have Feathers in both SS and DX. Of the three I use the DX most. My preference (so far) in blades for it is Kai ProTouch MG as they seem to provide the ideal blend of super-sharp performance with relaxation made possible by a forgiving guarded blade.

 

[RenoRichard]

I have a number of Artist Club handles. Off the top of my head- on the Feather side the RG, now discontinued, the DX in both styles Japanese and Western, and DX Western in both the plastic and wooden scales. The only Feather I haven't tried is the SS. On the Kai/Kasho side I have a the Excelia Western style, now discontinued, the plastic Kai Captain Standard, and the Kai/Kasho Woody- a wooden scaled Luffy design.

They're all quite good razors. The Feather DX series feels better made overall and a tad more balanced in hand. The exception is the discontinued Kai Excelia Western, which is a gem. But if an Excelia Western comes up, they are usually quite pricey. The Feather RG was essentially the DX design in a softer plated metal, maybe it's brass. It has a good feel in hand. I used to suggest the RG to folks to learn with. But, alas it's been discontinued for some years now. I haven't shaved with the Feather SS, so I can't comment from experience.

As to the OP's question: The Feather DX seems to have just a bit more blade exposure than the Kai Captain standard. In my hand the DX has a better made feel to the scales and overall razor than the Kai Captain standard. And, the DX just feels a little better balanced. The Kai Captain is a tad more forgiving from my use. But I use them each almost flat on my face, depending upon the lather and blade for the day. The biggest issue with these I have is occasional stiction, a bit more so with the DX.

The Kai Captain Standard is less expensive; often may be had for under $100. The Feather is, if you shop around, still somewhere 50+% more. Either razor will last a long time. Both razors have a screw adjustable pivot- a nice feature. If I had to pick one, from my experience, I'd pick the Feather DX, as anyone seriously into the AC shavette system will eventually want to try one. Resale value of the DX is normally better, if it turns out these are not for you.

Happy shaving!

 

[haggis]

If someone has calipers and the requisite handles I'd be happy to expand this exposure table (Artist Club Blades in Barber Style/Shavette Razors). The starting data is just from a feather AC blade package insert that I transferred to my wiki page so I could throw the paper away. Feel free to edit it (if permissions allow it) or send me the numbers.

 

[Furex]

it seems that the head is quite the same between those 2 "shavettes" but the DX is like two times more expensive than the Kai.

I have the Kai Captain. Not yet found a good enough deal on the DX, but ideally I would want to add that to my arsenal.

The Captain is a little milder than the DX (less blade exposed), so it's a better entry into the system, IMO.

But the SS or Captain Wood (so called "Luffy" head with engineered Pakka wood scales) might be even better. I recently started shaving with a Luffy copy and the lip makes it easier to shave in certain spots where getting a perfect angle is next to impossible.

Also, I would recommend considering Japanese style razors, these are way more maneuverable than folders.

Keep in mind all of these razors are vastly less expensive in Japan, and can be often bought from there through eBay, if you don't mind waiting. Feathers are way more represented on eBay than Kai.

There are also more affordable options like the CJB / Greager, which is a Japanese-style RG copy and might be good to get one's feet wet.

 

[Furex]

If someone has calipers and the requisite handles I'd be happy to expand this exposure table (Artist Club Blades in Barber Style/Shavette Razors). The starting data is just from a feather AC blade package insert that I transferred to my wiki page so I could throw the paper away. Feel free to edit it (if permissions allow it) or send me the numbers.

I'm getting 0.6 mm for the Captain Standard with a Feather Pro. I'm not 100% confident of the measurement, any small deviation in the angle of the head or the position of the calipers, can lead to a sizable error.

FTR I measured the exposure by difference, first by zeroing the caliper on the empty head using a reference position (I picked one of the grooves), and then by measuring again in the same spot with the blade loaded.

PS: Feather's official data on blade exposure can be found here:

FEATHER Safety Razor Co., Ltd.MADE IN JAPAN

Feather carries out thoroughgoing management of all of the products at the factories in Japan without relying on overseas production, and Feather will continue to pursue the quality that can only be made in Japan and that can only be created at Feather as ever.

www.feather.co.jp

 

[Furex]

the DX is like two times more expensive than the Kai.

Oh BTW. Yes, the Kai Captain Standard is less expensive than the Feather.

However, in my opinion, NO, they're making us pay through the nose in the West.

While these are very, very nice razors, a DX has no place costing 250 bucks / Eurobucks or more.

In Japan, the DX costs about 140 Euros IIRC. I doubt Feather loses money on it.

 

[Ravenonrock]

Can’t speak to the Kai, impressed by the Feather with Feather blades. I have the folding SS, a serious tool, superb design, quality workmanship.

 

[StillShaving]

I have a number of Artist Club handles. Off the top of my head- on the Feather side the RG, now discontinued, the DX in both styles Japanese and Western, and DX Western in both the plastic and wooden scales. The only Feather I haven't tried is the SS. On the Kai/Kasho side I have a the Excelia Western style, now discontinued, the plastic Kai Captain Standard, and the Kai/Kasho Woody- a wooden scaled Luffy design.

They're all quite good razors. The Feather DX series feels better made overall and a tad more balanced in hand. The exception is the discontinued Kai Excelia Western, which is a gem. But if an Excelia Western comes up, they are usually quite pricey. The Feather RG was essentially the DX design in a softer plated metal, maybe it's brass. It has a good feel in hand. I used to suggest the RG to folks to learn with. But, alas it's been discontinued for some years now. I haven't shaved with the Feather SS, so I can't comment from experience.

As to the OP's question: The Feather DX seems to have just a bit more blade exposure than the Kai Captain standard. In my hand the DX has a better made feel to the scales and overall razor than the Kai Captain standard. And, the DX just feels a little better balanced. The Kai Captain is a tad more forgiving from my use. But I use them each almost flat on my face, depending upon the lather and blade for the day. The biggest issue with these I have is occasional stiction, a bit more so with the DX.

The Kai Captain Standard is less expensive; often may be had for under $100. The Feather is, if you shop around, still somewhere 50+% more. Either razor will last a long time. Both razors have a screw adjustable pivot- a nice feature. If I had to pick one, from my experience, I'd pick the Feather DX, as anyone seriously into the AC shavette system will eventually want to try one. Resale value of the DX is normally better, if it turns out these are not for you.

Happy shaving!

Can you comment on the material or construction differences between the Kia Excelia and Kia Captain, the main razor body not the scales or handle material. I ask because there has been a thread or two questioning why the Excelia is so much more expensive than the Captain? And was the Captain really made from solid stainless steel or not?

I have an kamisori style Kai Excelia and it looks to be constructed from a similar grade of stainless steel as the Feather DX, but I have never held a Kai Captain to judge from myself.

 

[Furex]

And was the Captain really made from solid stainless steel or not?

I'm not Richard, however, if you trust Kai's official site, then the Captain is made of stainless steel.

FWIW, and off the top of my mind, the weight difference between the Captain and the DX is minimal, just a few grams.

I don't own the Excelia, IMO the price cannot be entirely justified by a difference in cost. It's a very handsome razor, though. Too bad they don't make the folder anymore.

 

[RenoRichard]

The Captain seems to be made of stainless steel, although it is only marked KAI, and Japan Made on the plastic. The Feather DX says SUS 316 on it. 316 is I think surgical stainless. I'm not able to tell the quality of the steel from handling it. They both seem substantial enough. The Captain is a plastic that feels a tad lesser in quality than the Feather plastic. But, they're both plastic. I have the wooden Feather at our other house; that has a classier feel. I bought the Captain off the BST many years ago, so it has had many more years of use. If it wasn't stainless I would probably see some plating loss by now- it is over 10 years old. The Feather in the pic is quite new. The little blue band on the Captain is removable and I've seen them in a few colors; I believe that's so that razors can be differentiated. I took these pics this morning to show the razors side by side. Hope this helps

EDIT: From memory, the Excelia feels like a higher quality razor than the Captain in hand. And, it's quite more styled. I think my folding Excelia is at our other house, but I'll look around.

 

[McBlade]

A Parker-style swing-arm shavette can take AC blades. This is the Bluebeard's Revenge:

I've also got a cheap SS copy from AliExpress which is very, very good.

Milder blades like Schick Proline or Kai Captain Mild are a better choice for me. Above is a Feather Pro Super which is far too sharp at first but will get more comfortable after several shaves (I think I got about 20 shaves in total out of it).

 

[Furex]

The Feather DX says SUS 316 on it. 316 is I think surgical stainless

Well, that got me thinking, so I took a trip to Wikipedia: 316 is the second most common form of austenitic stainless steel, which in turn is the most common class of stainless steel, accounting for 2/3 of all the stainless steel production.

304 is a sibling of 316 which is widely used e.g. for making cookware (where it is often called 18/8 or 18/10).

316 adds 2% Molybdenum increasing resistance to acids and corrosion.

Some razor makers (e.g. Razorock, off the top of my mind) refer to 316 as 'marine-grade', though apparently this particular alloy is used for a number of applications; this list is from azom.com:

Initially developed for use in paper mills Stainless steel 316 is now typically used in:

Food processing equipment
Brewery, dairy, and pharmaceutical production equipment
Chemical and petrochemical equipment
Laboratory benches & equipment
Coastal architectural panelling
Coastal balustrading
Boat fittings
Chemical transportation containers
Heat exchangers
Mining screens
Nuts and bolts
Springs, nuts, bolts and screws
Medical implants
Sinks and splashbacks
Saucepans
Cutlery and flatware
Sanitaryware and troughs
Tubing

316 is said to be easy to machine, which may explain why it is used for making razors.

I imagine if the Captain was made of 304 and the DX of 316, that would give the DX's head greater resistance e.g. to bleach, but Feather recommends against using it for sanitizing the DX, and suggests boiling instead.

It is possible, however, that bleach is not recommended because it could easily damage the plastic handle and/or the pivot hardware.

 

[StillShaving]

I'm not Richard, however, if you trust Kai's official site, then the Captain is made of stainless steel.

FWIW, and off the top of my mind, the weight difference between the Captain and the DX is minimal, just a few grams.

I don't own the Excelia, IMO the price cannot be entirely justified by a difference in cost. It's a very handsome razor, though. Too bad they don't make the folder anymore.

Is there a more informative company website? I found this link on the kia-group website which shows a single photo of the razors but inadvertently uses the same text for both:
As a Japan-made high-end razor holder, the Captain Excelia razor holder delivers perfect shaving performance. It can also be used for hairdressing.

KAI Group

It is the official website of KAI Group.

www.kai-group.com

The Captain might be stainless but it must be a different grade or use different manufacturing process than the Excelia. The Kia Excelia and Feather DX look to be made a CNC machine or something similar (I do not know, just speculating) with the razor's face polished to some degree to look more uniform, but the bare metal is still visible. The Kai Captain looks like it is plated, or is otherwise polished to a much higher degree as it looks more uniform in photos. But very doubtful that more steps/time were taken in polishing the Captain as compared to the Excelia since it is lower priced. If it is plated, the question is what is the underlying material? It could be like the Feather RG and be plated brass which would not be a bad thing.