- Thread starter
- #21
Steel is steel but they all don't feel the same. My Japanese razors are way harder and stiffer than my Shefields. I'm more curious about vintage razors and how they compare.
Japanese versus Swedish steel
- Thread starter imatabor
- Start date
You are wrong, sir.
Do you have experience with all the different steels you've mentioned above? You should hone some Japanese Swedish razors then some Sheffield and tell us you still feel this way.
- Thread starter
- #23
Were vintage Swede and Japanese razors just stamped out? If so my fantasy is have been dashed onto the rocks!!
I envisioned something like ...
I envisioned something like ...
And how do you think that steel got to be in its plate/flat bar roll to be stamped, it was cast or forged.
Granted that I may be wrong. Far wrong....................
But along the way watching the History and the Discovery Channels and the like, I thinkI heard that native Japanese Iron/Steel was crap.
And to make up for the poor quality, if you needed a dependable and sharp blade, the steel needed to be folded many times to make a functional blade.
Kinda like the differnce in quality between US of A and Canadian oil compared to the stuff from overseas. They have much, much more oil than we do but the oil from this continent is better in some way.
But along the way watching the History and the Discovery Channels and the like, I thinkI heard that native Japanese Iron/Steel was crap.
And to make up for the poor quality, if you needed a dependable and sharp blade, the steel needed to be folded many times to make a functional blade.
Kinda like the differnce in quality between US of A and Canadian oil compared to the stuff from overseas. They have much, much more oil than we do but the oil from this continent is better in some way.
The folding of the steel is used to make denser, harder, more resilient steel. It wasn't a process exclusive to the Japanese, look up Damascus steel. Japanese and Damascus steel that is centuries old is still better than a lot of what we can make today, and is difficult for us to recreate, and in some instances there are formulas that couldnt be recreated. And even if the process was used to give it better edge holding abilities, wouldn't automatically make it bad steel. Steel springs in high performance suspension applications on cars are pretty good steel, but I wouldn't want to make a knife or razor from it. Kevlar is plastic, trash bags are plastic, but they dont make ballistic vests from trash bags, and they don't make them from a single layer, they're woven and layered.
In self defense, I did indeed state that I could have been very wrong on this subject,
Hence I bow to your superior knowledge!
I wasn't trying g to come off like a jerk, just kind of tact deficient lately, lol
Straight razor production peaked during a period when the Japanese domestic steel industry was using reasonably modern processes to make a nice clean steel with well controlled levels of carbon, other alloying elements and impurities. Japanese razor makers also had access to imported steel, as others have mentioned.
The problems of poor quality iron ore (and the use of salvaged steel) which the ingenious and incredibly laborious traditional Japanese swordmaking process worked around wouldn't apply to these steels.
The problems of poor quality iron ore (and the use of salvaged steel) which the ingenious and incredibly laborious traditional Japanese swordmaking process worked around wouldn't apply to these steels.
I've got both
They are very similar on the skin and both shave well. Lot's of Japanese razors are made of Swedish steel.
Stiffer than a Fily (everything is stiffer than a Fily by the way 😃
Godzilla vs. Inge? lol
- Thread starter
- #32
To those guys who hone, how do the Swedish and Japanese razors compare on the stones?
Same here.
Mmmm... not in agreement what that at all.
Cast steel razors were forged. Cast steel is, essentially, a formula. The razor was not cast in a mold then ground. The steel was formed in a crucible, then cast, then forged. Look up Acier Fondue and/or the history of Crucible Steel Industries. The roots of modern CPM steels go back to the days when Cast Steel was a 'high tech' material.
Up until, I think - the 1970s, the majority of Boker razors were forged from English bar steel that was specially formulated for razors. Boker's use of that specific imported material was a choice, not an accident or something done because all steels are the same.
Different steels can vary greatly and there are easily discernable (to me and very probably the larger marjority of guys honing/using straight razors) differences betwen say - English razor bar steel of the mid 1800s, and drop-forged Swedish steel from the 1950s. Yasuki steel from the 1960s is worlds apart from 1980s Aogami - Worlds apart in its abiltity to take an edge, keep the edge, how it feels on your face with that edge on it and what it takes to make that edge. While a lot of the razors personaliity has to do with the skills of the smith, there's a lot to be said for the qualities of the steel itself. After all - the makeup of the steel dictates the parameters of HT&T and what can be done with the steel afterwards.
But, yeah - other than that, steel is steel.
When you're talking about specific brands, smiths, grinds and styles then you can nitpick. Until then, the field is pretty broad and it's hard to say this is like this, or that is like that.
IMO - both need way more attention than a Sheffield or Solingen. Both are, usually, hardened to a higher degree. Some steels, like - for example - some batches of Yasuki - can be pretty pesty to get a smooth edge on. Other go easy peasy. 1960s Aogami Kamisori can hone so easy it's not funny. Some later issue Shirogami Kamisori will fight you like a rabid tiger.
I've been meaning to test this for a while, but I suspect that at least some of the German razors marked as using "silver steel" are made from the alloy described in DIN 1.2210, itself a clone of BS-1407, meant to be a standardization of the common Sheffield silver steel dating from the 19th century. Haven't had a chance to talk to the guy at work with the XRF gun in a while, though.
Any experience with Parkers by chance? They seem like a less expensive way to get into Japanese Western-style razors than something like a Tanifuji, but I have no idea what the characteristics of the different Japanese brands are.
I've got a Parker 1/4 hollow that is simple, clean, and sublime. hones easily, shaves superbly.
