Japanese "chef's knife"

[danek]

I've been following the thread about kitchen knives, and now it's got me jonesing to get a new knife. I've been looking around www.japanesechefsknife.com and www.korin.com, but have a really hard time making any kind of judgement call without holding it in my hand.

I already have a santuko shape and am now leaning toward a traditional "chef's" shape or gyuto. I am also leaning toward a high carbon blade, but I need advice.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that price (EDIT: under 600 bucks) is not a concern. So please, dear keepers of the finest things in life; bestow a touch of your knowledgeable opinions on me - what do you reccomend, and why?

 

[ouch]

One of the first knives I had was a Nenox S1. I sold it and bought several others in its place. It goes for ~$500 now (about double what I paid), and although it's a beaut I was never quite satisfied with the grip. I find that many other knives are every bit as good. Hattori, Masamoto, and Misono make excellent gyutos. If you want a carbon steel knife without the pain of carbon steel maintanence, the Hiromoto AS series is a great knife. It has a top quality carbon core that will take a wicked edge, yet only a few millimeters of it is exposed under the stainless cladding. You can virtually treat it like a stainless knife, but it will cut as well as anything made. All carbon knives require a bit too much commitment for me. I tend to use it (and a humble Tojiro) for almost everything. I'd love to have a qyuto by each manufacturer, but I have too many hobbies!

 

[Woody]

I personally have a Ran which I absolutely love and use for everything. It's a damascus steel knife with some kind of carbon content (bought it before I knew anything much about blades so I don't actually know much about it) that cost me AU$180. It holds a great edge but I am not that experienced and have never owned any other high quality knives, just used at other peoples places. It's by no means top of the range but I still love it. I went down and tested a few out at the store (they generally have something to cut) and chose the one that was my favourite to hold. It was interesting because a few of the knives my girlfriend found comfortable I couldn't stand. I highly recommend going and testing them first. It's no good having a super sharp knife that you don't enjoy holding. Globals are big here and everyone suggested I get one of them but I didn't find them as comfortable as the people I talked to and so am glad I tested.

Here for US$90

 

[tsmba]

I've always liked carbon steel knives. For me, they're easier to sharpen and I never minded the little big of extra care they require to maintain. Stainless-based (harder) steels will hold an edge longer, but they're tougher to sharpen.
Japanese knife nomenclature can be tough to follow. Most of what "we" use are Japan's equivalents of Western-style knives....double-bevel, etc. I've been disappointed (generally) with "multi-purpose" (ie sankuto) shapes. IMO, the whole point of a chef's knife is a comfortable grip and a design that facilitates the rocking motion.

 

[mainaman]

Keep in mind that carbon requires more attention to maintain than stainless.
There are stainless knives that are as good as carbon especially for a home cook .
Suisin INOX honyaki
Tadatsuna INOX
Mizuno Tanrenjo Swedish stainless.
those 3 are in the category thin knives that take really thin edge and keep it really well. All are in the 300-350 range, the suisin being the most expensive, the Mizuno being the cheapest. The Mizuno however is a steal because you get to chose the bolster color free of charge unlike the Tadatsuna.
here is a pic if you are interetsed:

the coin is a quarter.

After thinnig:

FWIW this knife can shave too

 

[Jim]

I have come to enjoy my Japanese knives. It took a while as the balance is a little different, luckily for me I had a true blade nut help me pick them out.

 

[BigRich]

I have come to enjoy my Japanese knives. It took a while as the balance is a little different, luckily for me I had a true blade nut help me pick them out.

I only have those first two but love them as well. And it was that same "true blade nut" that convinced me too.

 

[mainaman]

Masamoto Vg-10 is a great knife, never tried the carbon version.
The new tojirs are made with much better F&F and also a lot thinner than before. It is also rumored that the core steel is changed to VG-10 (the german site say so too)

 

[tsmba]

Are those Ryusen knives, Jim?

Of course, my comments about carbon vs stainless blade steels were meant to be general statements. Blade-makers are constantly experimenting with steel combos that try to offer the best of both worlds.

I cut my teeth (so to speak) on high-end knives while working in a classy restaurant. At that time, Heinkels were considered the epitome of craftsmanship and no one had heard of Japanese knives. A few of us tried to have a "personal knife" so a well-maintained blade was close at hand. That led to endless squabbles with the guys who loved to swipe them, abused them, and went on.

The whole concept of thinner, sharper, and more maneuverable Japanese knives came about much later. The internet has made information available and placed sources at our fingertips.

 

[mainaman]

Are those Ryusen knives, Jim?

Of course, my comments about carbon vs stainless blade steels were meant to be general statements. Blade-makers are constantly experimenting with steel combos that try to offer the best of both worlds.

I cut my teeth (so to speak) on high-end knives while working in a classy restaurant. At that time, Heinkels were considered the epitome of craftsmanship and no one had heard of Japanese knives. A few of us tried to have a "personal knife" so a well-maintained blade was close at hand. That led to endless squabbles with the guys who loved to swipe them, abused them, and went on.

The whole concept of thinner, sharper, and more maneuverable Japanese knives came about much later. The internet has made information available and placed sources at our fingertips.

the pic show 2 Tojiro DP(looks like suji and honesuki) and 2 Masamoto Sohonten (gyuto , petty) knives

 

[ouch]

Are those Ryusen knives, Jim?

the pic show 2 Tojiro DP(looks like suji and honesuki) and 2 Masamoto Sohonten (gyuto , petty) knives

From left to right, those would be a
270mm Tojiro DP sujihiki
240mm Masamoto VG-10 gyuto
150mm Tojiro DP honesuki
120mm Masamoto VG-10 petty

Good score, especially since the Tojiros had a huge price bump immediately after, and a world class master was on hand to touch them up.

 

[Jim]

From left to right, those would be a
270mm Tojiro DP sujihiki
240mm Masamoto VG-10 gyuto
150mm Tojiro DP honesuki
120mm Masamoto VG-10 petty

Good score, especially since the Tojiros had a huge price bump immediately after, and a world class master was on hand to touch them up.

Its almost like you were there!

 

[ouch]

Its almost like you were there!

 

[DS/B MCS]

If you are looking to spend almost $600 on any knife, and you don't buy a Custom knife

The only knives I use in the kitchen are custom knives. Here are four different takes on the Santoku design.

From Top to Bottom
George Tichborne/440C/Desert Ironwood
Tom Krein/S30V/Green Canvas Micarta
Jens Jorgen Schiermer/RWL34/Orange G10
Mike Snody/ATS34/F22 Carbon Fiber

Pick any 2 and you are OTD for less than your budget

I bought my wife the 7" Misono UX10 a couple of years ago. She like it OK, but wasn't jumping for joy. Then I bought her the 6" Forged Chef's knife from A.G. Russell and she fell in love. From a quality standpoint, the Russell is on par with the Misono. Looking at a value standpoint...not even close. The Russell was less than $50 and I believe the Misono UX10 was over $150.

Buy yourself a Spyderco Sharpmaker and you won't have a problem keeping a good edge on your knives. At least, I don't have a problem with my S30V, D2, ATS 34, etc knives (Kitchen or otherwise).

The wife doesn't use my knives because after use they must be: washed, dried, and the edge touched up as needed before they are placed back in their respective homes. Of course, I do the same with hers after she gets finished using them.

Check out some of the knife forums and you will be surprised at the number of makers offering Kitchen knives. If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

 

[Fnord5]

Not a fan of the santoku shape, but your top one looks like a hybrid almost.
Plenty of belly.
How much was it, if you don't mind me asking.

 

[DS/B MCS]

Not a fan of the santoku shape, but your top one looks like a hybrid almost.
Plenty of belly.
How much was it, if you don't mind me asking.

If I remember correctly it was about $160 (Desert Ironwood is an upgrade from base handle material). I've had it about 5 years, so the prices may have changed. According to George's site the price for a Santoku w/Paper Micarta scales is $139.00
http://www.tichbourneknives.com/index1.htm

I also had a few of his K-3 Vegetable knives. Gave two of them away as Christmas gifts, so my friends would know the pleasure of a good knife

After using my custom kitchen knives, I can't imagine ever using anything else

Here are a couple more pics of the Orange Santoku along with a matching paring knife. These were made to my specs with input from the maker (JJS).