So I've looked in the wiki, and the reviews, but there doesn't seem to be a JNAT for dummies that I've found. I've already got some Shaptons and some Naniwas, but I'm looking to expand into some naturals. JNATs seem pretty popular, but there are so darn many different types, I don't know what I'm looking at or for to be honest. How do they all stack up and what is the difference between say an Asagi and a Kiita, or are these the names of the quarries they come from. The stones I've looked at seem to have about 6 names and I don't know which is the type of stone, which is the quarry, and/or what all the other names/words mean? I know that there are a lot of folks out there that swear by them, so I'm hoping some will chime in and school the newb. Thanks.
J-Nat explained
- Thread starter ketsco101
- Start date
JNats aren't just for dummies.
There are some reasonably intelligent members who use them around here....
There are some reasonably intelligent members who use them around here....
JNS (japanesenaturalstones.com) has a "wiki" section that I find helpful...
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks for the link... Looks like I've found some of my answers.
No problem! Yeah I was confused as heck when I started honing with JNATs...Once you start to delve into them though, it all starts to make sense and they're not as mystifying as they seem.....
Are you looking to start honing on JNAT? If so, then I would recommend starting with a Shoubudani Type 100..http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shuobudani-type-100-a149/
They're relatively inexpensive as far as JNAT's go and are wonderful stones....This is what I started with, and I think it's a great option to get your feet wet.
I guess the only way to do it is dive right in! Maksim at JNS was very helpful to me when I purchased my stones.Alex Gilmore is a member here with great feedback and has helped many with their selection. Either one you will not go wrong. And this is a great forum to be in as there are quite a few real experts on here(not me!) who can help you with techniques etc. Good luck. And +! to the shuobodani 100. I have one as well and it seems its a perfect first stone. Not saying others aren't as well.
First - it's a hone.
Second - any hone needs to be figured out.
Third - there is no 'one' source of info to rely upon. The best source will be your own understanding once you're involved.
Fourth - information found on the internet may, or may not, be true/accurate/etc. So tread cautiously and don't believe everything you read.
Kita and Asagi are coloring characteristics that are not so clearly defined or easy to understand.
Some characteristics 'may' indicate a particular quality - or not. What matters is overall performance and even that's subjective, especially when you bring the concept of money/retail into the picture.
A Nakayama Kita is a stone from Nakayama that's yellow in color
A Nakayama Kita Tomae is the same stone, but the strata 'Tomae' is called out.
Some believe different strata bring finite characteristics to the stone. This is not entirely accurate. At best there is some truth to that in some cases, but, in and of itself, saying a Tomae stone is better than one from the Aisa layer can't be qualified accurately.
Quarry/mine names are important at some levels and not at all important in many other levels.
Nakayama is a place where many great stones came from. A lot of turkeys came from there also. Same as any natural stone quarry.
There are great Hideriyamas, and really terrible Ozukus.
I'll say this - Jnats aren't for dummies. The use of any natural hone requires a level of involvement that is greater than the paint-by-numbers crew can fathom. Look around - the only people badmouthing them are clueless about them.
One bit of good news is that, contrary to a lot of the moronic rhetoric out there - Jnats do not have to be expensive.
Some are - some are not. I can hone an edge on a 70 dollar Ozuku and it will rival anything. And that stone will last 10 lifetimes and bring much joy to a lot shavers. Actually, it's already brought a lot of joy to a lot of shavers.
But that reality did not come to me overnight - it was time/work/effort that got me comfortable with these stones.
But - honestly, it was no more work/effort than I expended on trying to get in sync with the Norton 4/8k.
Another point - Jnats are not difficult to use. Needing to learn them does not mean that the learning is difficult.
Sure - people run into difficulties but most of that, IMO, is nothing other than basic inexperience. Same thing goes on with Coticules, Slates, Arks, etc. No one is born knowing how to hone - the add-water-and-stir honing theories are false hope postulated by a number of self-centered pied-pipers.
No matter what - we have to learn how to hone. Learning infers that there will be some failures - that's part of the game.
Yes - some people pick up one thing faster than another. So there's that to digest also.
Thing is - I do not believe that anyone is predisposed to not being able to 'get it' - as long as they don't expect miracles to happen overnight anyway.
FWIW - there are a lot of good threads on Jnats here on B&B, might want to check around to see what you can find.
Sorry for the seemingly endless blathering - work was hell today and I guess I needed to let some stress go.
Second - any hone needs to be figured out.
Third - there is no 'one' source of info to rely upon. The best source will be your own understanding once you're involved.
Fourth - information found on the internet may, or may not, be true/accurate/etc. So tread cautiously and don't believe everything you read.
Kita and Asagi are coloring characteristics that are not so clearly defined or easy to understand.
Some characteristics 'may' indicate a particular quality - or not. What matters is overall performance and even that's subjective, especially when you bring the concept of money/retail into the picture.
A Nakayama Kita is a stone from Nakayama that's yellow in color
A Nakayama Kita Tomae is the same stone, but the strata 'Tomae' is called out.
Some believe different strata bring finite characteristics to the stone. This is not entirely accurate. At best there is some truth to that in some cases, but, in and of itself, saying a Tomae stone is better than one from the Aisa layer can't be qualified accurately.
Quarry/mine names are important at some levels and not at all important in many other levels.
Nakayama is a place where many great stones came from. A lot of turkeys came from there also. Same as any natural stone quarry.
There are great Hideriyamas, and really terrible Ozukus.
I'll say this - Jnats aren't for dummies. The use of any natural hone requires a level of involvement that is greater than the paint-by-numbers crew can fathom. Look around - the only people badmouthing them are clueless about them.
One bit of good news is that, contrary to a lot of the moronic rhetoric out there - Jnats do not have to be expensive.
Some are - some are not. I can hone an edge on a 70 dollar Ozuku and it will rival anything. And that stone will last 10 lifetimes and bring much joy to a lot shavers. Actually, it's already brought a lot of joy to a lot of shavers.
But that reality did not come to me overnight - it was time/work/effort that got me comfortable with these stones.
But - honestly, it was no more work/effort than I expended on trying to get in sync with the Norton 4/8k.
Another point - Jnats are not difficult to use. Needing to learn them does not mean that the learning is difficult.
Sure - people run into difficulties but most of that, IMO, is nothing other than basic inexperience. Same thing goes on with Coticules, Slates, Arks, etc. No one is born knowing how to hone - the add-water-and-stir honing theories are false hope postulated by a number of self-centered pied-pipers.
No matter what - we have to learn how to hone. Learning infers that there will be some failures - that's part of the game.
Yes - some people pick up one thing faster than another. So there's that to digest also.
Thing is - I do not believe that anyone is predisposed to not being able to 'get it' - as long as they don't expect miracles to happen overnight anyway.
FWIW - there are a lot of good threads on Jnats here on B&B, might want to check around to see what you can find.
Sorry for the seemingly endless blathering - work was hell today and I guess I needed to let some stress go.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #8
Gamma,
Sorry to hear that it was a rough day at work, but for an good detailed explanation like that, I'll let you suffer through a couple more bad days there to get me the answers I need before I spend a lot of money.
Seriously though, great answers, and you make the world of JNATs much less intimidating. I appreciate the candor.
Sorry to hear that it was a rough day at work, but for an good detailed explanation like that, I'll let you suffer through a couple more bad days there to get me the answers I need before I spend a lot of money.
Seriously though, great answers, and you make the world of JNATs much less intimidating. I appreciate the candor.I'm glad my rambling was understandable and you got something out of it.
The best thing to do is keep reading about them and if you get sparked enough maybe you'll pick one up.
Enjoy the learning curve!
The best thing to do is keep reading about them and if you get sparked enough maybe you'll pick one up.
Enjoy the learning curve!
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