Just recently got a few rock stars and can recommend. I am really impressed with them so far. I do not have the 10k but considering that I really like shaving off of the rockstar 8k, I'm sure the 10k is a banger.
simple question on hones
- Thread starter Blade_Runner37C
- Start date
I haven't used the old King 6000s. Are these rebranded Kitayama stones?
I'm still mystified that the 16,000-grit is cheaper than the 10,000: Shapton Rock Star Stone16,000 Grit - https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/products/shapton-rock-star-stone?variant=48626795249966.
I'm not. The 1k, 3k, and 10k are better stones than the other grits. 16k has clumpy abrasives and doesn't perform nearly as well for me.
“I haven't used the old King 6000s. Are these rebranded Kitayama stones?”
No, they are King stones, Alex Gilmore writes a bit about them in his JNAT book and that they were ground Jnat and synthetic grit blend. Years ago, I bought one at an Antique Flea Market for 2 dollars and I thought it was a dirty 1k.
After cleaning and lapping, I tried it and it near mirror polished a bevel, I started investigating what it was and have bought a few since. I bought a NOS boxed stone a couple weeks ago for $15.
They mostly come in the small 7X2 size, (in a grey or green box), which is fine for honing a razor, but I have bought the same stone in 8X3, but are harder to find. The good ones are wood base and look and feel like a nice Kita. It does feel different than most synthetics.
I often go from a 1k to the vintage King “6k” and finish on a Jnat.
No, they are King stones, Alex Gilmore writes a bit about them in his JNAT book and that they were ground Jnat and synthetic grit blend. Years ago, I bought one at an Antique Flea Market for 2 dollars and I thought it was a dirty 1k.
After cleaning and lapping, I tried it and it near mirror polished a bevel, I started investigating what it was and have bought a few since. I bought a NOS boxed stone a couple weeks ago for $15.
They mostly come in the small 7X2 size, (in a grey or green box), which is fine for honing a razor, but I have bought the same stone in 8X3, but are harder to find. The good ones are wood base and look and feel like a nice Kita. It does feel different than most synthetics.
I often go from a 1k to the vintage King “6k” and finish on a Jnat.
I have the same stone, or should I say the same box, but my 6k is on a plastic base. So I'm not sure how vintage my stone is.
But it works very well and I sometimes skip my King 8k and go straight from the 6k to a natural and I get good result as well.
@H Brad Boonshaft Thanks. Kitayama stones were also produced from Jnat powder. That's why I asked. Can you compare it to Kitayama? Or if you tried it with the old Ice Bear 10000? The reason I ask in detail is because I see that you constantly recommend this stone to someone. I'm trying to understand exactly what level it is.
I have experience with the new generation King stones but I haven't tested the old ones.
@Saloogie Your stone is the new version.
I have experience with the new generation King stones but I haven't tested the old ones.
@Saloogie Your stone is the new version.
- Thread starter
- #28
Ordered the Rockstar 10K it will be here on the 1st and then I need to finish this razor and send it to my buddy on here to critique (well probably re-hone and fix it for me)
Good choice! Nail down a repeatable progression with repeatable and consistent results. When you get consistently great shaves from you progression, then start thinking about getting on the Ark. Arks are of no use before mastery of those skills and may hamper your success.
As far as factory surfaces go, I only trust my own, and my own straight edge. I keep all my stones flat. I obsess over it more in the higher grit synths than the lower ones. But I obsess with absolute flattness and a 600W/D surface on the Black and Trans Arks. I can feel them do the thing they do so well.
I don't know how experienced you are or what you have at your disposal. Do you have magnification and a straight edge?
Disclaimer - For me, with my progression, with my Arks, with many years of making mistakes while trying to learn this, I have found that my flattest Arks, produced the best edges.
YMMV greatly. Keep us posted on your progress!
As far as factory surfaces go, I only trust my own, and my own straight edge. I keep all my stones flat. I obsess over it more in the higher grit synths than the lower ones. But I obsess with absolute flattness and a 600W/D surface on the Black and Trans Arks. I can feel them do the thing they do so well.
I don't know how experienced you are or what you have at your disposal. Do you have magnification and a straight edge?
Disclaimer - For me, with my progression, with my Arks, with many years of making mistakes while trying to learn this, I have found that my flattest Arks, produced the best edges.
YMMV greatly. Keep us posted on your progress!
“Thanks. Kitayama stones were also produced from Jnat powder. That's why I asked. Can you compare it to Kitayama? Or if you tried it with the old Ice Bear 10000? The reason I ask in detail is because I see that you constantly recommend this stone to someone. I'm trying to understand exactly what level it is.”
I have an old Ice Bear 10k, it is the large, pale yellow stone, over an inch thick on a wood base. It is well over 20 years old and is a good finisher very similar to a 12k Naniwia in polishing ability, there is a fine stria pattern but a high polish, you can shave very well off this stone.
I have and 8k Kitayama that produces an 8k finish similar to a Norton, but none of the Kitayama’s that claim to be made from Jnats.
This King is a much higher polisher, produces a finish more like a 10k Suehiro, near mirror. You can very easily shave off this “6K” edge, and it does not feel like most synthetic stones, it feels like a Jnat.
They do not produce a Jnat, kasumi finish, they polish to a high level, near mirror finish, almost no stria. And you can find them very inexpensively on line. It is a very different stone from the modern 6k King stone.
It is an impressive stone for the money.
The older stones smell like tobacco when wet.
I have an old Ice Bear 10k, it is the large, pale yellow stone, over an inch thick on a wood base. It is well over 20 years old and is a good finisher very similar to a 12k Naniwia in polishing ability, there is a fine stria pattern but a high polish, you can shave very well off this stone.
I have and 8k Kitayama that produces an 8k finish similar to a Norton, but none of the Kitayama’s that claim to be made from Jnats.
This King is a much higher polisher, produces a finish more like a 10k Suehiro, near mirror. You can very easily shave off this “6K” edge, and it does not feel like most synthetic stones, it feels like a Jnat.
They do not produce a Jnat, kasumi finish, they polish to a high level, near mirror finish, almost no stria. And you can find them very inexpensively on line. It is a very different stone from the modern 6k King stone.
It is an impressive stone for the money.
The older stones smell like tobacco when wet.
Apparently the 8k Kitayama I have is one of the “Super Polishers” made with ground up Jnats. It is very soft. It does polish but nothing like the vintage King 6k.
The reason I recommend this stone is they polish way above a modern 6k and can be bought very inexpensively. I have bought a couple for a little as $2 and see them frequently on eBay for $15-20.
I do believe and recommend that new honers learn to finish and shave off of a 6 or 8k stone, before venturing into the “Arms Race” of super finisher, Synthetics, Naturals, films or paste.
Most new guys get caught up in the Sharpness Race and never experience what a comfortable shave is like. Sharpness and Comfort are two different things, but sometimes you can get both from the same stone. Sharp is easy.
For me that is an Ark or Jnat, but if you cannot shave well off of a 6k…
It is in the hands not the stone.
The reason I recommend this stone is they polish way above a modern 6k and can be bought very inexpensively. I have bought a couple for a little as $2 and see them frequently on eBay for $15-20.
I do believe and recommend that new honers learn to finish and shave off of a 6 or 8k stone, before venturing into the “Arms Race” of super finisher, Synthetics, Naturals, films or paste.
Most new guys get caught up in the Sharpness Race and never experience what a comfortable shave is like. Sharpness and Comfort are two different things, but sometimes you can get both from the same stone. Sharp is easy.
For me that is an Ark or Jnat, but if you cannot shave well off of a 6k…
It is in the hands not the stone.
I think that the King 6000s came in many different versions. I have one that came on a plastic base that leaves a jagged edge.
It's not a matter of numerical grit. It's a matter of refinement. If your bevel-set isn't shaveable, adding steps after it is virtually the equivalent of polishing a turd. I bring this up because the majority of new users chase finishers when they should be chasing bevels.
Looking at a Shapton rockstar 10k
It's a good stone.
or what they call a snow white Suehiro whetstone 8k
the suherio is not a Snow White.
^this is Snow White
If the ground work isn't on-point, there is no 8k/10k or finisher that will 'fill the gap'.
When looking to spend a few $$, my focus is usually on the foundation. I am not a fan of the 'old tech' stones, they're serviceable I suppose but soft soaker stones are outdated at this point. There are more modern-tech stones that I find to be way superior. So, if it was me, I'd probably look into changing out the King stone and maybe what comes before it too. Better, I believe, to invest in the foundation before spending money on a roof.
I usually go to a Jnat after 5k, maybe 1k or 3k/4k. Depends on how the edge is coming along. It's not a numbers game.
I don't understand what the problem is here. If you want to try a Jnat, then try one. If you stop thinking in terms of 'recipe' or 'formula' or 'paint by numbers' then the world is your oyster. Honing isn't hopscotch or a Monopoly game.
See above
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