simple question on hones

[Blade_Runner37C]

went to the casino tonight for my birthday and won a descent chunk. Looking for a whetstone to go in between a 6000k King stone to a surgical black Arkansas. Looking at a Shapton rockstar 10k or what they call a snow white Suehiro whetstone 8k or a

Naniwa Snow White Jyunpaku 8000 Grit Waterstone​

maybe another good option for a stone to fill the gap other than those.

also is there any benefit going from a say rockstar 10k to a jnat then surgical arkansas? my only issue w/ the arkansas for a complete finisher is they are slow and I seem to want to try a jnat.

sorry had a few drinks and trying to get some choices. Hope those questions make sense.

 

[marv]

I have all three of the stones. All three will work well for your purpose.

Suehiro 8000 Snow White is a soaking stone. It needs to be wetted before use, and after use it is necessary to wait a few days for it to dry. It is a good stone.

Rockstar 10K and Naniwa Snow White are both fine stones, but if I were you, I would buy Naniwa Snow White 8K. (the one without a stand) I used this stone for a long time and had no problems. However, it is a known fact that there is a cracking problem. We discussed a lot what this depends on. We never left these discussions satisfied. The binder from which the stone is produced, the humidity in the living area, the drying methods of the stone, etc. All of these may affect the process. I don't know. I did not experience any problems (also with the chosera series), there are many people who have problems. For this reason, I do not guarantee that it will be a problem-free election. Considering your current situation, Rockstar 10K may be a better choice for you. My personal preference and yours may differ at this point. This isn't important. Rockstar 10K is a very good stone.

 

[Blade_Runner37C]

I have all three of the stones. All three will work well for your purpose.

Suehiro 8000 Snow White is a soaking stone. It needs to be wetted before use, and after use it is necessary to wait a few days for it to dry. It is a good stone.

Rockstar 10K and Naniwa Snow White are both fine stones, but if I were you, I would buy Naniwa Snow White 8K. (the one without a stand) I used this stone for a long time and had no problems. However, it is a known fact that there is a cracking problem. We discussed a lot what this depends on. We never left these discussions satisfied. The binder from which the stone is produced, the humidity in the living area, the drying methods of the stone, etc. All of these may affect the process. I don't know. I did not experience any problems (also with the chosera series), there are many people who have problems. For this reason, I do not guarantee that it will be a problem-free election. Considering your current situation, Rockstar 10K may be a better choice for you. My personal preference and yours may differ at this point. This isn't important. Rockstar 10K is a very good stone.

The rock star is really the one i was favoring. Sounds good. Thank you.

 

[duke762]

sorry had a few drinks and trying to get some choices. Hope those questions make sense.

Cool! The best practice for the best results on a Black Ark is to ease on to that stone with an already, incredible edge, not a big jump. The last, high grit synth I use before Arky land is a 12k. If the Ark is dressed properly, you can go a little lower but the lap count will go up. Before I got water hones, I would use a slate or Coticule before the Ark. A jump from 8k or 10k is doable and I've read here that some jump from lower. I wouldn't and don't. In fact I have recently added an Escher after the 12k and before the Ark. I've gotten edges that I previously had never thought possible.

What grit is your Black dressed to? Slow is a relative term. A glazed, loaded or burnished Black is quite slow and a detriment to good results. Lap that puppy dead dog flat with loose grit and then dress it with with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Then check with a quality straight edge. Repeat if needed. When dressed like this it, helps to bridge jumps in the progression.

Ground work, patience and practice will win the day.

 

[Saloogie]

If you want to stay in the King family, they make an 8k stone that works well. I usually use one before moving onto a natural stone.

You can find one for 50 to 60 bucks.

 

[helicopter]

Rockstar 10k is my favorite synthetic finisher. I also have a Naniwa 12k and a Rockstar 8k. I wouldn't get another high grit Naniwa because of the cracking and hazing issues. I haven't had issues myself, but I rarely even use the one I have because it is always a concern. I love and often use Chocera 800 and 3k, though. In the lower grits, 320, 500, I also prefer Shapton Rockstar because they are faster. The Naniwas do feel better, and I like the extra thickness.

 

[Blade_Runner37C]

What grit is your Black dressed to? Slow is a relative term. A glazed, loaded or burnished Black is quite slow and a detriment to good results. Lap that puppy dead dog flat with loose grit and then dress it with with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Then check with a quality straight edge. Repeat if needed. When dressed like this it, helps to bridge jumps in the progression.

It was custom cut and flattened by Dan's Arkansas. It is very flat, although i've had the stone for a while but it's basically seen hardly any use at all. I would like another faster finisher before the Arkansas, like a jnat or???

 

[helicopter]

I should mention, I also had a 16k Rockstar that I returned because it put big deep scratches in edges. It is probably possible to get it to work with the right prep and technique, but I didn't want to screw around learning a stone that sheds clumps of abrasive that damage edges.

 

[LJS]

@Blade_Runner37C you have lots of posts on honing and have read many I’m sure. Think about this. There is (1) wanting a workable progression to good shave and (2) someone who enjoys hones and like to try them all or variations. You ask questions like you are aiming for number 1, but I think your curiosity really puts you in Camp #2. You already understand what progression and options will get you to a shave. But you are curious about other stone options and feel, and the only way to satisfy that is to try for yourself. Other people’s opinions are never your shaves. There are dozens of stones that could fit between a King 6K and an Ark - or none at all and can make it work as-is.

My suggestion is one of two things. 1 -spend time with your current stone progression and learn to max this out by doing it many times over and over and try different things to see what improves. 2 - enjoy your curiosity of stones and just buy the ones that interest you and try them. But your questions have no exact and single answer and is very much personal preference, so you will likely receive 12 opinions from only 8 people because that’s how preference works. If that helps you come to a conclusion then great. Ask away, but don’t expect a definitive answer because there never will be just one.

To your question, I’d recommend a Shapton 8k. I think it would polish up well and fast and makes a good edge to jump to finishing rocks.

 

[Herrenberg]

Rockstar 10K -> JNat -> Surgical Black sounds like a great aspirational sequence.

I often do Shapton Glass 10K -> JNat -> Translucent Ark, which is similar. For the JNat, it's usually 2 JNats, a Nakayama Tomae to get everything smoothed out and straight at the edge, then a hard finisher to make that excellent shaving edge.

Rockstar 10K -> Surgical Black would work, I would think, if you were already happy to shave off of the 10K edge. I've not tried shaving off of my SG 10K. People shave off of 10Ks all the time, but it's usually different 10Ks.

 

[Herrenberg]

I should mention, I also had a 16k Rockstar that I returned because it put big deep scratches in edges. It is probably possible to get it to work with the right prep and technique, but I didn't want to screw around learning a stone that sheds clumps of abrasive that damage edges.

I had a Shapton Glass 16K that behaved exactly the same way. It was too old to return, so I replaced it instead. Took me a long time to realize that it was my individual stone that was messed up.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Any of the 3 will get you a near mirror finish that you can take to an Ark.

Personally, there is no benefit from going from a Jnat to an Ark or Ark to a Jnat, the edges when done properly are equal. Stone prep and technique will determine the shaving edge.

A Jnat is probably the easiest natural finishing stone to learn. Pretty much it has a way broader range than an Ark, you can jump from a 1k to a Jnat with slurry and finish on the same stone. A 6k to a Jnat is a snap.

You can get a smoking shaving edge from any good Jnat and can buy a small 4-5” Jnat for about $100-150. From a good Jnat shaving edge, you can bump it up a notch with different Nagura and can amass a small “progression” of Nagura for a couple hundred dollars to tailor edges for particular razors.

But while you are experimenting with nagura, you will still be shaving well with just diamond slurry.

With an Ark, setting up, lapping and finishing can be tedious, and you must bring a finished edge to a finishing Ark for best results. But once you have the stone dialed in it is good for life, if your edges are good enough.

I honed off of an 8k Snow White for years, burned through 2 stones and even crazed and cracked, made near mirror edges. It was my favorite pre finisher until I bought the Suehiro 10k. The 10k is twice the price of the Snow White, but if you are not going to shave off the 10k, you don’t need it.

Really, you should be getting good shaving edges from a 6k, if not, it’s not the stone and a higher grit stone, better polisher may not help you. You can take a 6k to a properly set up Ark finisher and get a very good edge by just making a micro bevel with the Ark and an extra piece of tape.

BTW as said, an alternative is a vintage King S-3, 6k on a wood base, there are 3 for sale on eBay right now, from $30-58. They are a blend of synthetic and ground Jnat grit in a soft binder. They will produce a bevel and edge that will rival or best any of the three stones you are looking at for less than half the price.

There are no magic stones… well maybe, there might be… but if you cannot shave well off of a King 6k, you will not find them.

 

[helicopter]

Jnat may be easier to learn, but it's a lot easier to find and pick out a good ark. You can just get any translucent, or a Dan's surgical black or true hard.

 

[Steve56]

I think that he already has an Ark finisher. Given that, here are some options:

1. 10k Rockstar, good value, splash and go.

2. 10k Suehiro Kouseki, my current choice. It’s a little softer and needs to absorb a little water before use but is not a soaker. Price is higher than the Rockstar by a good bit, but also much thicker.

3. A hard, fine JNat. JNats have a wide range and can span the grit gap especially with slurry. The advantage of the JNat aside from the wide range, is that it can give you a second finisher to play around with and learn.

 

[Saloogie]

@Blade_Runner37C

My suggestion is one of two things. 1 -spend time with your current stone progression and learn to max this out by doing it many times over and over and try different things to see what improves. 2 - enjoy your curiosity of stones and just buy the ones that interest you and try them.

Great advice!

I wish I had listened to it when I got started. I bought to many stones to quickly. I just got caught up in the whole thing. I wanted to catch up to the honemeisters here quickly, so I figured the more I bought, the better I'd get. Well...that was wrong. I just got confused and I didn't know what was a actually working and what wasn't. Sometimes I'd nail the edge, but other times I didn't. Just to many variables.

So it's best to get a simple progression going first, one that actually works consistently and is simple. Adding to many stones, or variables, is just like chasing your tail and it'll slow your progress down.

 

[GreazyThumbs]

Just find a quality JNAT and use it on its on base slurry from 6k on. That can take you a long way to a great shaving edge, if the stone is quality you will not need to finish on the ark. You can also play with Nagura and possibly add a little additional range, but may not be needed. A high quality JNAT and Ark edge will be very similar.

 

[BMFtoolco]

New to this but my opinion, like they say, it’s all opinion. Gear a good synthetic progression. Sharron ha a recommendation on their website. Then run whatever natural you are inclined to run and try it.

Me personally. Sharron 1K, 4K, rasutek with slurry(which I think has no bearing on this) black shadow slurry to clear water. From there you could run an ark or I use a green shadow that is hard as steel.

Ymmv

ETA. The rasutek or whatever it’s called could be substituted for a shapton 10k. I think. I have one on order but haven’t actually tried it.

 

[Koop]

New to this but my opinion, like they say, it’s all opinion. Gear a good synthetic progression. Sharron ha a recommendation on their website. Then run whatever natural you are inclined to run and try it.

Me personally. Sharron 1K, 4K, rasutek with slurry(which I think has no bearing on this) black shadow slurry to clear water. From there you could run an ark or I use a green shadow that is hard as steel.

Ymmv

ETA. The rasutek or whatever it’s called could be substituted for a shapton 10k. I think. I have one on order but haven’t actually tried it.

I think you mean Rozsutec - a stone from Slovakia. I have one that I would put in the 5k-6k range. Every stone is unique though, that's just my estimation of my stone.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I finish a lot of my razors on a translucent ark. For a long time the finest synth I had was a Naniwa Fuji 8k (probably similar to the Snow White in terms of finish). It worked, but I really prefer something a little finer prior to the ark. But it will work. I was fortunate to find good deals on a small Thuringian, and later a Naniwa 12k, on the BST. I find that either is a great setup for the ark.

So, having said all that, if you're looking for one stone to slot in between the king 6k and the ark, something like the Rockstar 10k ought to work very well. I haven't used one myself so I don't know how the jump from the King will go but on paper it ought to work fine.

Several people have suggested Jnat. Which, there's no doubt it would work. But Jnats aren't cheap and finding a finishing quality one requires a trustworthy seller. And, to me it's not really a progression I do. I don't really see the point. If I have the Jnat out, I'm going to finish on it. I've certainly taken Jnat edges with a few shaves and gone straight to the ark, but at that point it's not really an improvement in edge quality as much as just a change of flavor.

I tend to spend a fair amount of time on my ark so I prefer a quicker prefinish: a handful of laps on the 12k or a quick run on the Thuri works for me there.

 

[Wid]

Probably not what the op wants to hear but here it goes. To many times people want a top notch edge from cheap to mediocre stones. A good set will last most years and is a one time purchase.

IF I were starting out I’d look at the 2-6-10 Rockstar stones. The 2K is as fast as the Chosera 1K so it is perfect for most bevel sets. I have the 6K but use the Suehiro 10K before an Arkansas finisher.

So, out of the ones listed I’d opt for the Shapton. Maybe work my way backwards and get the other two in time.