I have a couple questions...

[SterFry]

Okay, boys... I've finally commited to learning how to hone. I have some ebay beaters, a Norton 4/8, a small Cnat from Whipped Dog and a Coticule I got from BST. The Coti, however, did not come with a slurry stone. My questions are...

1) would it be necessary for me to buy a slurry stone considering that I'll be using the Coti as my finisher after the 8k? Or do you only need them for stuff like dilucot progressions? It'd be nice not to spend more money if I don't have to

2) If I do need one, will any little Coti slurry stone do? Or are there parameters like the slurry stone needing to to be softer than my main Coti?

3) I ordered the Cnat because it was just $15 bucks as a backup finisher in case I can't figure out this Coti or the Coti ends up not being suitable for finishing. Would you guys recommend incorporating it into my progression somewhere, or would it be redundant given I already have a Coti to use as my finisher?

Thanks in advance

 

[global_dev]

I’d try out the coti first, see how it works and then consider if you want a slurry stone or even a small dmt/atoma or something like that. Cotis can be slow/fast/medium on water depending in your unique stone but the slurry can only speed up the cutting and be refined with dilution. After the norton 8 you may want to just finish but you have to know the coti first.

cnats might be able to bridge the gap as 6-10k, hard to tell. There is a reason they arent super popular as finishers but it can work. Mine has been able to finish well enough, but not everyone agrees, likely due to the work done before that stone.

 

[Brianskeet]

A slurry stone can usually be had for cheap, but no need to hurry. Lap your coti flat carefully and give it a whirl. I do a lot more water only finishing work with mine than working up a slurry. I am usually just touching up edges and you don't need slurry for that. They can vary some so take your time and see what it wants.

 

[Alum of Potash]

A slurry stone with the coticule would be used for more aggressive honing or for cleaning the stone's surface of swarf, independent of the Norton 4000/8000 combo. So, off the Norton 8000, you should only need water with the coticule.

As for learning, my old-school suggestion would be to first shoot for the best shaving edge off the Norton 8000 followed by plain leather stropping, then shoot for a better shaving edge by introducing the coticule used with water only, followed by plain leather stropping; and if this isn't enough, introduce the Cnat with water, perhaps with a light slurry to emulsify things, followed by plain leather stropping.

P.S. If they are real beaters, you may need something in the honing range of 500-1500 to remove any visible chips and clean things up from there. Use of electrical tape on the spine would be beneficial in the lower 500-600 stages, even on up to 1500 if starting out in honing.

 

[SterFry]

A slurry stone with the coticule would be used for more aggressive honing or for cleaning the stone's surface of swarf, independent of the Norton 4000/8000 combo. So, off the Norton 8000, you should only need water with the coticule.

As for learning, my old-school suggestion would be to first shoot for the best shaving edge off the Norton 8000 followed by plain leather stropping, then shoot for a better shaving edge by introducing the coticule used with water only, followed by plain leather stropping; and if this isn't enough, introduce the Cnat with water, perhaps with a light slurry to emulsify things, followed by plain leather stropping.

P.S. If they are real beaters, you may need something in the honing range of 500-1500 to remove any visible chips and clean things up from there. Use of electrical tape on the spine would be beneficial in the lower 500-600 stages, even on up to 1500 if starting out in honing.

Great information! Thank you very much. To clarify swarf is metal shavings, right? Also how would I slurry the Cnat?
What grit sandpaper should I use to lap?
And finally, do you mean incorporate (eventually) the Cnat after the Coti? Or in place of the Coti?

Thanks again

 

[stone and strop]

Good advice from Alum of Potash but I would not slurry the Cnat.
Get a good shaving edge with the 8k first then try to better it with the Coti and water or Cnat and water individually.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Great information! Thank you very much. To clarify swarf is metal shavings, right? Also how would I slurry the Cnat?
What grit sandpaper should I use to lap?
And finally, do you mean incorporate (eventually) the Cnat after the Coti? Or in place of the Coti?

Thanks again

I only mentioned slurrying the Cnat because a lot of them are sold with slurry stones and you might be tempted to try it in such a case. As Stone and Strop wrote, it is not needed and can complicate matters, so it is better to use straight water in starting out. Keep it simple and all that. On the other hand, sometimes a slight slurry can help to keep the water more evenly spread on the stone's surface (but a drop or two of dish-washing liquid mixed with some water used for honing will do much the same thing).

Yes, swarf is the accumulation of metal on the stone's surface. Too much build-up can start to interfere with the hone's efficacy, so it is important to remove it from time to time as it accumulates.

For the synth stones, you only need to lap with 320x or 400x sandpaper on glass. For the coticule and Cnat, anywhere from 400x to 1000x depending on how smooth one wants the surface to be. Softer stones will smooth over with use, so 400x is fine there, but harder stones need to be lapped finer if being used as finishers.

To restate what I wrote before, shoot for the best shaving edge off the Norton 8000 (not that it will be the best shaving edge as an end unto itself). Strop and go no higher than this for starters. Once you've reached this, hone the razor with the coticule using just water, no slurry. This is to advance the razor's edge from where it was off the Norton 8000. Strop and shave. Continue in this way until the edge is improved off the coticule. Once this has been reached, hone the razor with the Cnat using just water. This is to improve the razor's edge from where it was off the coticule. Strop and shave. Continue in this way until the edge is improved off the Cnat.

In theory, the stones you have should work fine. The foundation is the edge off the Norton 8000 in this case. As such, it may be necessary to return to the 8000 to recreate that foundation before moving to the coticule, or before an uninterrupted coticule to Cnat progression. As Stone and Strop mentions, it may be possible to go directly from the Norton 8000 to the Cnat too, although in theory, the Cnat should be finer than the coticule. In this case, a return to the Norton 8000 to re-establish the edge would be needed before moving directly to the Cnat if a coticule had been used previously. If the gap between the 8000 and the Cnat is too large, a slurry on the Cnat may be needed to bridge things before switching to plain water there. (A small, fine DMT under 2" x 3" can be used to generate the slurry.)

Hope this is clear enough. I am responding to the stones you have, which should work fine with practice and perseverance, rather than mentioning other hones or methods that risk to send you on another path.

 

[lightfoot]

Yeah just roll with what you have and see where you land.