I feel like I am missing something

[JumbalayaJones]

I have been shaving with a safety razor for a couple of weeks now and have been fairly disapointed as much of what I have heard isn't to my experience. I am hoping that since so much of it isn't in line with what I have heard that maybe I am missing something that will help me improve this experience.

What I have heard

• its cheaper - I paid $30 for 100 "Feather New Hi-Stainless Platinum Coated double edge blade" it seems to me a blade lasts about a week before it gets too scratchy and the shave quality drops further so roughly $15 a year. where with a 15 pack of Gillette mach 3 refills for $20 I got nine years of shaving from that which if my math is right is .45 cents a year on cartridges. yes I used each cartridge longer than suggested but it did the job and wasn't uncomfortable.
• its a closer/smoother shave - after a couple of weeks of "practice" I now get a shave after two passes on a fresh blade that looks like several hours after a single pass from a 3 month old mach 3 cartridge. I suppose I may still need to learn better technique but as of now a "fresh shave" is like a 5 o'clock shadow.
• just use the weight of the razor/don't apply pressure - the first time I tried it, i used no pressure and the blade scratched and pulled my hair so much it was painful, after a while I learned that fairly light pressure and lots and lots of shave butter made things go smoother.
• its more environmentally friendly - this so far seems to hold up

I'm not sure if it matters but I don't use a badger brush or anything like that, I use the same shave butter as I did before since I was gifted an entire case of it. I do have to use several times as much shave butter as I did before, maybe 2-3 times as much, per pass, to get the same kind of glide I was getting before, I also aggressively rub it into my face now, not sure if that does anything though. I was considering getting a badger brush and some shave soap when I ran the case out but with the results I have been getting I don't want to spend even more money.

Another thing that I don't know if it matters but I bought two different razors, both of which are Gillette, one is made of three pieces and the other twists open, but I get pretty much the same results with both.

To be clear I wasn't expecting anything revolutionary, the same shave quality at a lower price is what I was after when I ran out of my cartridges and decided to try this. Right now it looks like when I run out of blades I will go back to cartridges, but I still have 90 something to go and am looking to improve this situation if it will give me what I am after.

 

[Alex Jr]

where with a 15 pack of Gillette mach 3 refills for $20 I got nine years of shaving from that

If you got 9 years out of 15 cartridges I really have nothing to say. I wouldn’t get 9 weeks.

If it works well and it’s cheap, why change?

 

[abies]

So, I'm not trying to be dismissive but my initial thoughts:

(1) how are you getting that many shaves out of a cartridge? I usually get 3 shaves per cartridge and then can't take it anymore because of irritation. Maybe 4 shaves per cartridge at most, but then sometimes only 1 or 2?

(2) I also don't understand how you're getting that many shaves out of a cartridge but *not* from a Feather blade.

(3) Feathers are usually sharp and smooth, although they're notorious for dulling much faster than other blades. My guess is you could get more shaves out of another blade. Also, blades in general are very individual-specific, and hard to predict preferences for.

(4) Feathers are also one of the most expensive DE blade you can buy, maybe 2-3 times as expensive as other DE blades.

(5) Which razors? I assume they must be vintage because there are no modern turn-to-open Gillettes.

(6) I think whether or not you get a closer shave from a DE or cartridge depends on a lot of things, but in general you should be able to match a Mach 3 in closeness. But your description sounds like it's really off, as in I would never describe a fresh DE shave as a 5-o-clock shadow. You don't want to hurt yourself but it sounds odd, especially with a Feather blade.

Honestly, if cartridges are working for you, maybe they're the best option for you. But what you're saying is really really really unusual to me, both in terms of results with the DE, but also in terms of results with the cartridge, that it's hard for me to wrap my head around your situation.

Why did you want to try a DE? Just to try it? If it was to save money, but you're only buying one pack of cartridges every 9 years I'm not sure how that would work.

Let me put it this way: I have never ever seen a 3-month old cartridge, unless it was unused.

 

[Alum Ladd]

I have been shaving with a safety razor for a couple of weeks now and have been fairly disapointed as much of what I have heard isn't to my experience. I am hoping that since so much of it isn't in line with what I have heard that maybe I am missing something that will help me improve this experience.

What I have heard

• its cheaper - I paid $30 for 100 "Feather New Hi-Stainless Platinum Coated double edge blade" it seems to me a blade lasts about a week before it gets too scratchy and the shave quality drops further so roughly $15 a year. where with a 15 pack of Gillette mach 3 refills for $20 I got nine years of shaving from that which if my math is right is .45 cents a year on cartridges. yes I used each cartridge longer than suggested but it did the job and wasn't uncomfortable.
• its a closer/smoother shave - after a couple of weeks of "practice" I now get a shave after two passes on a fresh blade that looks like several hours after a single pass from a 3 month old mach 3 cartridge. I suppose I may still need to learn better technique but as of now a "fresh shave" is like a 5 o'clock shadow.
• just use the weight of the razor/don't apply pressure - the first time I tried it, i used no pressure and the blade scratched and pulled my hair so much it was painful, after a while I learned that fairly light pressure and lots and lots of shave butter made things go smoother.
• its more environmentally friendly - this so far seems to hold up

I'm not sure if it matters but I don't use a badger brush or anything like that, I use the same shave butter as I did before since I was gifted an entire case of it. I do have to use several times as much shave butter as I did before, maybe 2-3 times as much, per pass, to get the same kind of glide I was getting before, I also aggressively rub it into my face now, not sure if that does anything though. I was considering getting a badger brush and some shave soap when I ran the case out but with the results I have been getting I don't want to spend even more money.

Another thing that I don't know if it matters but I bought two different razors, both of which are Gillette, one is made of three pieces and the other twists open, but I get pretty much the same results with both.

To be clear I wasn't expecting anything revolutionary, the same shave quality at a lower price is what I was after when I ran out of my cartridges and decided to try this. Right now it looks like when I run out of blades I will go back to cartridges, but I still have 90 something to go and am looking to improve this situation if it will give me what I am after.

Ok, just read this for starters
The Wanderer's Guide To DE Shaving - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/the-wanderers-guide-to-de-shaving.532194/

It is one of the best beginners guides to DE shaving we have on B&B. Please read it all. It will reset your whole idea as to DE shaving and give you a fine map.

Sounds like you have some vintage Gillette(s) so a great start. Feathers are a poor choice for beginners, and expensive. There are many cheaper but excellent blades we can recommend if you ask.

You will need to get an inexpensive but well regarded cream or soap and an inexpensive synthetic brush. A good lather will radically improve your shave. How much you pay for these items is your choice.

Please do read the above guide in it's entirity. I sometimes use my Mach 3 and it's a well respected cartridge. Even if you return to it, use the techniques and extra gear mentioned here. It will help wherever your path leads.

Please can you tell us what your beard/stubble is like, fine, wiry, thick, coarse etc, and exactly how you shave. The more info you can give the better people can assist.

Good luck!

 

[brucered]

You are missing a quality soap/cream and brush.

Ditch the shave butter.

 

[WThomas0814]

Feather as a first blade? I bow to you, sir.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

A week on a Feather is pretty good. 9 years on 15 Mach 3 cartridges is...

I mean, I could do it. If I only shaved for one week a year.

I don't think you can get 15 for $20 any more though. More like $35. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[kaufdrop27]

A week on a Feather is pretty good. 9 years on 15 Mach 3 cartridges is...

I mean, I could do it. If I only shaved for one week a year.

I don't think you can get 15 for $20 any more though. More like $35. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

It’s been nine years since op had to buy them. # inflation

 

[JumbalayaJones]

So, I'm not trying to be dismissive but my initial thoughts:

(1) how are you getting that many shaves out of a cartridge? I usually get 3 shaves per cartridge and then can't take it anymore because of irritation. Maybe 4 shaves per cartridge at most, but then sometimes only 1 or 2?

(2) I also don't understand how you're getting that many shaves out of a cartridge but *not* from a Feather blade.

(3) Feathers are usually sharp and smooth, although they're notorious for dulling much faster than other blades. My guess is you could get more shaves out of another blade. Also, blades in general are very individual-specific, and hard to predict preferences for.

(4) Feathers are also one of the most expensive DE blade you can buy, maybe 2-3 times as expensive as other DE blades.

(5) Which razors? I assume they must be vintage because there are no modern turn-to-open Gillettes.

(6) I think whether or not you get a closer shave from a DE or cartridge depends on a lot of things, but in general you should be able to match a Mach 3 in closeness. But your description sounds like it's really off, as in I would never describe a fresh DE shave as a 5-o-clock shadow. You don't want to hurt yourself but it sounds odd, especially with a Feather blade.

Honestly, if cartridges are working for you, maybe they're the best option for you. But what you're saying is really really really unusual to me, both in terms of results with the DE, but also in terms of results with the cartridge, that it's hard for me to wrap my head around your situation.

Why did you want to try a DE? Just to try it? If it was to save money, but you're only buying one pack of cartridges every 9 years I'm not sure how that would work.

Let me put it this way: I have never ever seen a 3-month old cartridge, unless it was unused.

First of all thank you for such a detailed response, just writing out my answers seems to have clarified some things for me.

1 - My only "sign" to throw away a cartridge would be if I cut myself worse than usual twice in a row, yes it would irritate the crap out of me. If I didn't immediately take a hot shower then moisturize and moisturize again a couple of minutes later, I would be all red and scratchy throughout the day looking like I was on something. Which I just got used to, but thinking about it now seems like a bit much.

2 - as I said my sign to get a new cartridge was essentially cut myself twice worse than usual, I would be absolutely terrified to do that with a safety razor. I ditch the double edge blade it as soon as it "stops feeling right", which I didn't do with the cartridge because even it was scratchy I wasn't really cutting myself any more.

3 - If feathers are known for dulling quicker, are there any brands or styles known for lasting longer?

4 - That is good to know, 10-20 dollars is what I was expecting to pay for 100 and from what you are saying it sounds like a more "regular" price. I didn't do much research on blades since I just remembered a This old Tony video where he recommended the specific feathers I got as the best and I thought I would start with the "best".

5 - I don't know the names, yes they were just vintage ones off ebay, searching around online these two images look very similar to what I got.

6 - This was the biggest sign for me to come post here because I thought if I am applying a bit of pressure like I heard I wasn't supposed to and still not getting a close shave then I must be missing something.

For some reason I thought a DE blade would last as long as a cartridge since they are both just steel, but now that I hold them to my neck I wouldn't feel safe doing what I do with the cartridges, especially now judging from all these comments I might be crazy for doing that all these years. I also now am trying to "clean up" my life a bit and thought it would be better to recycle these blades like I do all my other razor/utility blades instead of throwing away the cartridges.

 

[MrSpeedy]

First of all thank you for such a detailed response, just writing out my answers seems to have clarified some things for me.

1 - My only "sign" to throw away a cartridge would be if I cut myself worse than usual twice in a row, yes it would irritate the crap out of me. If I didn't immediately take a hot shower then moisturize and moisturize again a couple of minutes later, I would be all red and scratchy throughout the day looking like I was on something. Which I just got used to, but thinking about it now seems like a bit much.

2 - as I said my sign to get a new cartridge was essentially cut myself twice worse than usual, I would be absolutely terrified to do that with a safety razor. I ditch the double edge blade it as soon as it "stops feeling right", which I didn't do with the cartridge because even it was scratchy I wasn't really cutting myself any more.

3 - If feathers are known for dulling quicker, are there any brands or styles known for lasting longer?

4 - That is good to know, 10-20 dollars is what I was expecting to pay for 100 and from what you are saying it sounds like a more "regular" price. I didn't do much research on blades since I just remembered a This old Tony video where he recommended the specific feathers I got as the best and I thought I would start with the "best".

5 - I don't know the names, yes they were just vintage ones off ebay, searching around online these two images look very similar to what I got.

6 - This was the biggest sign for me to come post here because I thought if I am applying a bit of pressure like I heard I wasn't supposed to and still not getting a close shave then I must be missing something.

For some reason I thought a DE blade would last as long as a cartridge since they are both just steel, but now that I hold them to my neck I wouldn't feel safe doing what I do with the cartridges, especially now judging from all these comments I might be crazy for doing that all these years. I also now am trying to "clean up" my life a bit and thought it would be better to recycle these blades like I do all my other razor/utility blades instead of throwing away the cartridges.

Regarding blades: Don't go and get another 100 pack without first figuring out what you like. Go to Maggard Razors or West Coast Shaving and get a sample pack. Some of the blades often recommended are the Astra SP, Gillette Silver Blues, and Gillette 7 O'clock green or yellow. Spend some time looking in the Blades sub-forum. While you are placing that order grab an inexpensive synthetic brush and a good cream or soap. I usually recommend creams to beginners as they are easier to lather. Proraso is well-regarded.

You have a Gillette Black Handle SuperSpeed and a Fat Handle Tech. Both are excellent, mild razors that will give you good shaves. The trick is to find the right angle.

"No pressure" means "don't push the razor into your face". Obviously, you need a minimum amount of pressure to maintain contact; that's the amount of pressure you want.

Read the guide linked above, and watch some videos on YouTube. Both will be a tremendous help.

 

[NorthernSoul]

First off, two weeks is not really all that much time to get skilled shaving this way. So, maybe you just need to be patient as you gradually improve. Remember, cartridges pivot and automatically maintain the right angle, you have to do that manually with DE razors. If your angle is off, you won't get a comfortable, close shave.

Feathers are one of the most expensive blades and they tend to have a short life. I get a week's worth (6-7) shaves from a Personna Lab Blue blade that cost me $13.50 per hundred. I could get longer, but I like to use fresher blades. Some other blades I like are the BIC Chrome Platinum ($13/100) and the Perma-Sharp Super ($10/100).

I think the average cartridge life for Mach 3 is roughly fifteen shaves, call it two or three weeks for a frequent shaver. I'm amazed you could get over thirty weeks on average. How often do you shave? Once every two weeks?

 

[Whisky]

If you got 9yrs out of 15 cartridges and were happy with the shaves you got, why change? Keep doing what you were doing.

 

[NickCutlip]

Welcome to the forum !!

 

[abies]

First of all thank you for such a detailed response, just writing out my answers seems to have clarified some things for me.

1 - My only "sign" to throw away a cartridge would be if I cut myself worse than usual twice in a row, yes it would irritate the crap out of me. If I didn't immediately take a hot shower then moisturize and moisturize again a couple of minutes later, I would be all red and scratchy throughout the day looking like I was on something. Which I just got used to, but thinking about it now seems like a bit much.

2 - as I said my sign to get a new cartridge was essentially cut myself twice worse than usual, I would be absolutely terrified to do that with a safety razor. I ditch the double edge blade it as soon as it "stops feeling right", which I didn't do with the cartridge because even it was scratchy I wasn't really cutting myself any more.

3 - If feathers are known for dulling quicker, are there any brands or styles known for lasting longer?

4 - That is good to know, 10-20 dollars is what I was expecting to pay for 100 and from what you are saying it sounds like a more "regular" price. I didn't do much research on blades since I just remembered a This old Tony video where he recommended the specific feathers I got as the best and I thought I would start with the "best".

5 - I don't know the names, yes they were just vintage ones off ebay, searching around online these two images look very similar to what I got.

6 - This was the biggest sign for me to come post here because I thought if I am applying a bit of pressure like I heard I wasn't supposed to and still not getting a close shave then I must be missing something.

For some reason I thought a DE blade would last as long as a cartridge since they are both just steel, but now that I hold them to my neck I wouldn't feel safe doing what I do with the cartridges, especially now judging from all these comments I might be crazy for doing that all these years. I also now am trying to "clean up" my life a bit and thought it would be better to recycle these blades like I do all my other razor/utility blades instead of throwing away the cartridges.

Those are both really good razors, so you're set there.

Others gave some good suggestions for blades to try. Feathers are good blades, but they tend to be really sharp and smooth on the first couple of shaves and then dull fast (they're actually one of my favorite blades to shave with but I don't get them very often because they're relatively expensive and I don't get as many shaves out of them). I agree with others that getting a sample blade set might be a good idea, because blade preferences are really hard to predict. I get relatively more shaves out of Supermax stainless; also Personna blades (I started with Personna and just used those for years; they're still one of my favorites). Others mentioned some good blades to try.

You definitely don't want to press down when shaving, don't want to cut yourself, but something does seem like it might need to be tweaked. I agree with the other suggestions you might want to try something other than shave butter, as it might let your razor get a little closer without pressing. Or maybe not. It's hard to say. What shave butter are you using?

Proraso is a good suggestion for a shave cream to try; I like Kiss My Face shave cream but it's harder to find in stores nowadays, and liked Proraso also. I usually have good luck with any glycerin soap bar, although a shave cream or soap will probably provide better performance, be more moisturizing etc. I think stuff like shave butter, latherless cream, etc. is underrated but something different might help you figure out what different things feel like.

Also, I do agree with others that there's nothing wrong with a cartridge razor if it's been working for you; I just really had a tough time with them and it got really expensive. But if it's not expensive for you, and you're getting good shaves with them, then nothing wrong with it at all.

 

[Chef455]

1) Welcome to B&B. I hope you can find what you need here to help make shaving with a double edged razor as pleasant as many of us do.

2) I apologize, this will seem rude, but you will have to forgive me for not believing that you (or anyone) can go a year and a half with a single cartridge and be getting good results.

 

[JumbalayaJones]

Ok, just read this for starters
The Wanderer's Guide To DE Shaving - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/the-wanderers-guide-to-de-shaving.532194/

It is one of the best beginners guides to DE shaving we have on B&B. Please read it all. It will reset your whole idea as to DE shaving and give you a fine map.

Sounds like you have some vintage Gillette(s) so a great start. Feathers are a poor choice for beginners, and expensive. There are many cheaper but excellent blades we can recommend if you ask.

You will need to get an inexpensive but well regarded cream or soap and an inexpensive synthetic brush. A good lather will radically improve your shave. How much you pay for these items is your choice.

Please do read the above guide in it's entirity. I sometimes use my Mach 3 and it's a well respected cartridge. Even if you return to it, use the techniques and extra gear mentioned here. It will help wherever your path leads.

Please can you tell us what your beard/stubble is like, fine, wiry, thick, coarse etc, and exactly how you shave. The more info you can give the better people can assist.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for that link, it was very informative. It also looks like there are a lot more variables that I need to work through before declaring that I am getting a worse shave.

The guide mentioned trial/multi packs of razors, is there one with respected types/brands that is recommended?

Just now got a "boar brush" online, one thing I didn't see in the guide was if the brush would properly lather up any type of shaving cream. I still have like eight tubes of Van Der Hagen shave butter so it would be nice if they worked together.

I guess my facial hair is medium/thin, I try not to let it grow longer than a couple of millimeters. I rub hot water on my face, rinse the razor in hot water, aggressively rub on shave butter with my hands. I go with the grain in fairly short strokes, every couple of strokes I rinse the razor off, if it starts consistently tugging anywhere I skip that bit. Second pass, hot water and aggressive shave buttering again, then anywhere I skipped the first pass(usually only one or two small spots) I go with the grain again, cross grain everywhere else.

Thanks again

 

[JumbalayaJones]

You are missing a quality soap/cream and brush.

Ditch the shave butter.

Is there a reason that a soap or cream is better than a butter? Would there be any benefit to applying the butter with a brush or would that not make a difference?

 

[NorthernSoul]

Is there a reason that a soap or cream is better than a butter? Would there be any benefit to applying the butter with a brush or would that not make a difference?

If the butter will lather up, a brush will help you. Shaving cream or soap is mixed with water to make lather. The lather should be very slick, reduces friction and improves comfort. There are brushless creams available that don't need a brush, though.

About your earlier question, I use boar brushes quite often. They need to be broken in which takes around 15-30 uses. Then, the tips split and the brush becomes soft and lathers well. You can use it for creams, but it excels with harder soaps.

 

[JumbalayaJones]

1) Welcome to B&B. I hope you can find what you need here to help make shaving with a double edged razor as pleasant as many of us do.

2) I apologize, this will seem rude, but you will have to forgive me for not believing that you (or anyone) can go a year and a half with a single cartridge and be getting good results.

It wasn't a year and a half per cartridge more like eight-ish months. I also definitely wasn't getting great or even good results, which is one of the reasons I wanted to try DE shaving, but the results were still noticeably better than I am currently getting with DE shaving.

 

[JumbalayaJones]

If the butter will lather up, a brush will help you. Shaving cream or soap is mixed with water to make lather. The lather should be very slick, reduces friction and improves comfort. There are brushless creams available that don't need a brush, though.

About your earlier question, I use boar brushes quite often. They need to be broken in which takes around 15-30 uses. Then, the tips split and the brush becomes soft and lathers well.

Thanks, good to know. I just got a boar brush and will try it when it comes in.