rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Never use acetone to remove contact adhesive if you substrate incorporates PVC foam. Don't ask how I know. It wasn't pretty.
How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop
- Thread starter Slash McCoy
- Start date
Read through the 3 threads in new honers compendium. For cast acrylic plates, what is the minimum thickness needed for the following?
Plate for Lapping film/honing or as substrate for balsa: 3x12x3/4”
Plate for lapping balsa strops w/ sandpaper: 6x18x1/2”
Ive seen various thicknesses mentioned from 1/2” to 1 1/2”, but wanted to invest as little as possible at first. 1/2” is reasonably priced, but for 1” acrylic, i might as well buy a granite surface plate for lapping. Just looking for minimum thickness that can be used successfully. Thanks.
Plate for Lapping film/honing or as substrate for balsa: 3x12x3/4”
Plate for lapping balsa strops w/ sandpaper: 6x18x1/2”
Ive seen various thicknesses mentioned from 1/2” to 1 1/2”, but wanted to invest as little as possible at first. 1/2” is reasonably priced, but for 1” acrylic, i might as well buy a granite surface plate for lapping. Just looking for minimum thickness that can be used successfully. Thanks.
Thanks for this pasted strop info' for post shave maintenance, but prior to shaving what's your SR strop routine? Again thanks for the info' as I'm new to 'pasted strops.'
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Before each shave I strop on a clean leather hanging strop. When I started I would do about 50 to 60 laps on the clean leather. Now I go more by feel. For me there is a distinct change in how the blade feels on the leather strop once it is ready. Some of my SRs only take about 20 to 30 laps, others take more.
For beginners learning to strop, I recommend that you hold the strop reasonably taut and strop with just a little more pressure than just the weight of the blade. If you have noticeable deflection in the strop, it is not taut enough or you are stropping with to much pressure.
- Thread starter
- #1,505
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I as well as others started out using pieces that thin, and it works great, except you are always fearful for your fingertips, since the balsa is held in hand. I actually have a granite surface plate, but it weights I guess about 80lbs and so not practical to hold in hand, or even possible, for more than a minute or two. Also, the mass of the granite would interfere with the free interplay and self alignment between razor and honing surface.
With the thinner acrylic as the stiff backing to the balsa or the film, you could of course apply additional NON-WARPING backing to that, to fill the hand and keep fingertips below the honing plane. I haven't tried this, but @rbscebu has, I believe. With any sort of wood backing, you would want to mount the acrylic to wood with a thick layer of a soft, flexible adhesive, so the warping or swelling wood could not impart flexing forces on the acrylic. The point is to start with a nice flat surface, and keep it nice and flat, and not just eyeball or straightedge flat. Some type of foam like polystyrene would probably work great. It would just have to be replaced eventually, due to being knocked around. no biggie there.
If you are comfortable with using a thin hone in hand, then by all means, go with the thin stuff. It is indeed much cheaper. I now use exclusively 1-1/2" thick acrylic, myself, and not looking back at all. It is a true one-time purchase, since it receives no wear and won't break if you should happen to drop it.
A - my hanging fabric/leather strops are always used as nearly vertical as I can keep it, hanging from a head high hook on a door
B - my balsa strops are nice and light, so I always use them hand held. I can use them with any surface orientation from horizontal to vertical, though the long axis is always approximately horizontal. I use high quality 2"x3" warp-free Bud Nosen balsa planks in various lengths from 10" to 18". I paste the 3" wide surface and have a safe grip for my fingers on the 2" surface.
B - my balsa strops are nice and light, so I always use them hand held. I can use them with any surface orientation from horizontal to vertical, though the long axis is always approximately horizontal. I use high quality 2"x3" warp-free Bud Nosen balsa planks in various lengths from 10" to 18". I paste the 3" wide surface and have a safe grip for my fingers on the 2" surface.
Excellent, thanks.
Yes, the surface plate is definitely not able to be held in hand. I was considering it to use as a lapping plate to lap the balsa strops flat instead of 1.5” acrylic. A 9x12x1.5 cast acrylic is around $90 at Tap compared to $65 for a similar sized surface plate, although the surface plate would weigh more. I just wasnt sure of minimum thickness needed for an acrylic lapping plate. A 9x12x.5 in acrylic is only $20 in comparison.
So just to confirm:
-1/2” acrylic can be used for the lapping plate.
-1/2” or 3/4” acrylic can be used as film holder when honing or as base for balsa. Provided it is built up w a non-warpable material (foam) to provide some finger clearance.
I could of swore I read you had an issue with the flatness of 1.5” acrylic at one point, but maybe I misunderstood or that was a one time occurrence.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Improved Pasted Balsa Stropping Technique?
Over the past few months I have changed my lap counts when going through a full pasted balsa stropping progression. I am coming off 1μm film, Adaee #12000 or a hard black Arkansas.
I use to do about 60 laps, interspersed with short pull strokes, on each of the three pasted strops; 0.5μm, 0.25μm and 0.1μm. Now I am doing about 30 laps on the 0.5μm, 60 on the 0.25μm and 90 on the 0.1μm. Still the same total number of laps and still includes the short pull strokes as before. I still finish with my normal 0.1μm hanging strop laps including short X strokes.
This change is giving me even better (keener) edges in the shave test. I do not understand why. It just works for me.
Give it a try and see if you get a better edge.
Over the past few months I have changed my lap counts when going through a full pasted balsa stropping progression. I am coming off 1μm film, Adaee #12000 or a hard black Arkansas.
I use to do about 60 laps, interspersed with short pull strokes, on each of the three pasted strops; 0.5μm, 0.25μm and 0.1μm. Now I am doing about 30 laps on the 0.5μm, 60 on the 0.25μm and 90 on the 0.1μm. Still the same total number of laps and still includes the short pull strokes as before. I still finish with my normal 0.1μm hanging strop laps including short X strokes.
This change is giving me even better (keener) edges in the shave test. I do not understand why. It just works for me.
Give it a try and see if you get a better edge.
I will.
Have you tried only using the 0.1μm, and doing the same total number of strokes (180)?
The CBN I am using does not need that many laps after a 12k. They work quite fast.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
I like to sneak up on my edges so I'll stick with using the three different grades.
The number of laps used/needed I find varies with the steel. The numbers I mentioned in my post are for illustrative purposes only, not a definitive number that should be used. It only takes me about 4 minutes to perform a 180 lap progression. Not a long time in the scheme of things. A blade would normally only need a full pasted balsa progression after a bevel-set.
I haven't heard of anyone ruining an edge by over use of pasted (either diamond or CBN) balsa strops. Also, I believe no one who has used both has reported a noticeable difference between the two types of pasted.
I was just thinking it might simplify things for someone considering trying the balsa progression.
For some who already have a 12k finishing stone you might just need one balsa plate loaded with 0.1 micron diamond/cbn.
Alternatively if they just have an 8k stone, the full balsa progression might make the 12k redundant.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Yes, I suppose you could go from a 12k finishing stone directly to 0.1μm (about 200k grit), however I expect that you would need to spend many many hours (days?) on the 0.1μm to get it to the same level of edge keenness as you would spending a few minutes going through the three-paste progression.
I know of no one who has tried just 12k straight to 0.1μm and compared it against an identical SR put through the three pastes.
- Thread starter
- #1,514
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
It's all been tried. 12k or 1µ film to .5 to .25 to .1 prepared exactly as in the thread is what works best. Random technique gets random results. The Method is already optimized for best possible results primarily, ease of use and low cost, secondarily. You can make all the compromises you like, depending on the standard of excellence you are willing to accept. There was a need for a way for a noob to jump right in to honing with zero experience and only a couple hundred bucks to spend, that would give him early success and better than professional level edges, and that's what this is. The instructions, if you can call it that, are laid out in excruciating detail so that one only has to follow them precisely to get an edge that is sharper than the average DE blade, on the first or second attempt. Amazing how often this is the second attempt. Very odd. Almost never the third, and often not the first even when following The Method exactly. But the second go is usually out of the park.
More headaches are caused by trying what should work than by doing what definitely will work. The Method has a solid track record, even with complete newbies. The guys who don't get the same crazy sharp results are usually the guys who already know how to hone and already know that this or that should work just as good, so they don't actually follow The Method down to the smallest detail. No biggie, they still get okay edges, but not Method edges.
I tried the CBN and preferred the three pasted balsa routine.
I have this vintage wade and butcher which was restored and honed using one layer of tape. Its still scary sharp and I would like to avoid honing it and instead use the method.
While I understand from your post that wedges are problematic, how do I go about using the method ?
Use tape with the diamond pasted balsa ?
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
@luv2shave, you can use tape on the blade's spine with pasted balsa. The down side is the diamond or CBN paste is very aggressive compared to other honing mediums. This will mean that your tape will wear faster. There is also the likelihood of very fine (invisible?) particles of the tape being deposited onto the pasted balsa surface. How this may affect the the results I do not know.
An alternative may be to use CrOx and FeOx pasted on two different (not your diamond pasted) balsa strops. I believe that CrOx and FeOx pastes are not as aggressive.
An alternative may be to use CrOx and FeOx pasted on two different (not your diamond pasted) balsa strops. I believe that CrOx and FeOx pastes are not as aggressive.
That helps a lot. I have the Balsa with CrOx / FeOx as part of the poor man strop kit from Whipped Dog. I will give it a go. Thank you.
When you use something like balsa, and a "heavy" blade, even if you use light pressure, you will probably be able to hit the entire bevel without tape. I used to to this with my 1/4 hollow Hart razors. I honed them with tape, and removed the tape when i stropped on balsa. Balsa is soft enough to allow some give.
I actually did it intentionally to avoid too much convexity at the apex from the balsa. I am not sure if it made any difference.
Nice razor
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I will try this. Sounds logical.When you use something like balsa, and a "heavy" blade, even if you use light pressure, you will probably be able to hit the entire bevel without tape. I used to to this with my 1/4 hollow Hart razors. I honed them with tape, and removed the tape when i stropped on balsa. Balsa is soft enough to allow some give.
I actually did it intentionally to avoid too much convexity at the apex from the balsa. I am not sure if it made any difference.
Nice razor
I bought the razor in an auction and had Karl from mainley razors restore it. He transformed the razor to better than new.
I liked the shape, the lines and that it said Fine India steel on it.
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W&B, Joesph Elliot & more Sheffield makers made some razors from "India Steel" I've read some posts that it was a simple marketing hype. But the evidence says no. India steel or Wootz steel that is the proper name has an ancient history, much like the original Damascus steel. Here is a...
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