How do You Vary Your Loading & Lathering Techniques for Different Soaps & Creams?

[Lane101]

Do you vary your loading and lathering techniques for different shaving soaps and creams or do you use a standard method regardless of what you are shaving with? If the former how do you adjust to get the best out of each soap or cream? If the latter what is your technique and what products work well for you?

We have lots of posts regarding how we adjust our shaving techniques for different DE razors based on aggressiveness, blade used, etc. While there is some discussion there are far fewer posts regarding adjusting our loading and lathering techniques for different shaving soaps and creams or we just focus a post on the technique for a specific product. If anything we tend to have a favorite method for doing this across all of our soaps. For example one of our highly respected members significantly downgrades a soap if loading take more than roughly 20 seconds. Not surprising that many of us have our favorite methods as building lather is one of our favorite zen like activities in the wet shaving process.

We started to touch on this topic in one of our Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF) threads (link at bottom below, see posts #148-152) as there are both a wide variety of perspectives and lathering techniques for this soap. Successful MWF shavers often use one or more of a variety of techniques from use of a stiffer brush, loading longer (often a full minute) or blooming the puck to enable a shorter loading time. Shavers who try using a really hard puck like MWF or Williams may be challenged to generate enough good lather if the only load for a short period with a small soft brush.

If, like razors and blades, different soaps require adjustments to technique then could many of the lather issues we hear about be the result of use of the wrong lathering technique for the specific soap? Understanding this and the ideal lathering approach for the different soaps out there would be helpful. Based on preferences we could then either adjust our techniques as needed to get the most out of each shaving soap/cream or only select those products that work with our preferred methods. Additionally we can provide fellow B&Bers with more helpful reviews with specifics on how the soap or cream was used to generate the reported result.

I'll go first. Most of what is use are hard soaps including MWF, Williams, Tabac, Razorock What the Puck, Tcheon Fung Sing Red Bowl (TFS), Arko, Derby stick, Van Der Hagen and custom Van Der Williams blends. Also use one croap, Proraso Red, and just started using some LEA and Cyril R. Salter shaving creams. I always use the product as it was made, no blooming, dry hard puck, cream straight from the container etc, and I face lather. To get the most out of each product adjustments to my lathering technique were required as follows:

• For all my hard soaps I load/build proto lather directly on the puck for a good minute or so.
• For my two hardest soaps, Williams and MWF, I use a stiffer boar brush that is soaked in warm water for a couple of minutes. For all other soaps my plissoft synthetic brushes work well. 26mm knots on all my brushes.
• For the Proraso Red croap just 20 seconds of loading with a wet plissoft synthetic brush is all that is needed. Then to right to face lathering. Load TFS for around 30-40 seconds.
• For my creams the required amount is applied straight from the container directly to my face and then face lathered. For LEA (both in tubes) I squeeze out the required amount to my finger and spread it on different areas of my face. Use a small expresso spoon to scoop out the Cyril R. Salter.
• The different soaps deliver optimal lather with varying levels of hydration that I add to my brushes while face lathering

Surprisingly, as I use these products more, there are more subtle differences. I evolved my hardest soap boar brush routine for Williams and have found it's a bit too aggressive for MWF. It pulls two grams of soap off the MWF puck for each shave, likely twice what I need and almost 3x what I use for a Williams shave. Currently add a lot of water to the 2 gram load to get desired slickness. The larger MWF puck surface may have something to do with this. Will continue to dial in on the optimal MWF load with either a switch to my synthetic brushes or less loading time.

Usual YMMV disclaimer here as our preferred techniques and lather characteristics will vary. Realize there are other selection factors such as scent, ingredients sensitivities, artwork etc that also come into play. The question here is, to get the lather you want, from each of your shaving soaps or creams, how do you adjust your technique or do you stick with a preferred lathering method and only select products that work with it?

Best wishes to everyone for a happy holiday season!

Is Mitchell's Wool Fat the best ever shaving soap?

I was considering getting one just for the ceramic bowl, but I'm not sure if it's worth ~$25 or so. It is...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[APBinNCA]

This sounds like a good topic, but instead of trying to write a dissertation, I am going to throw something out there as I think I things. I have some basic techniques that stay the same and I adapt them slightly dependent on the soap, it has become a bit of an organic process at this point. I don't really check notes for a particular soap, I just respond to how it is behaving.

Starting from the beginning, we need to address brush hydration. That can vary dependent on the type and some soaps benefit from a bit of thought to not have a hydration mismatch. For example, the Italian barber technique of a drenched boar brush actually does work with some soaps, but the ones that it doesn't work for, it really doesn't work well! Maybe I won't be too specific since everybody has their preferences even if they are actually wrong.

 

[APBinNCA]

I have a standard method that I use to hydrate all but my boar brushes that results in the minimum moisture left in the bristles so I can get a good proto lather instead of instant bubbles. What I have started doing is cupping water in one hand and palm lathering the brush, no soap, until it feels like it's hydrated and give it a good shake. This works with both synthetic and badger so that I don't have to think about which one I am using and it keeps the water from getting deep into the knot. With hard puck soaps, I actually start by carefully drizzling hot water on the surface to bloom the soap. It may be unnecessary for regularly used soaps, but I don't like to keep track of when I last used a soap.

I don't think much needs to be said about picking up a proto lather other than learning to know when you have loaded enough soap by some method, either strokes or just visually. I prefer visually because I have brushes of different knot size and shape. Some soaps can be harder to pick up enough soap, but I always make sure that I have at least enough, never too little. I don't like to add additional water at this stage, so I will keep going at the nearly dry puck as long as necessary.

Hmm, this post is apparently about standardisation because I can't be bothered to think too much because I have too many brushes and too many soaps. Hmm.

 

[lasta]

Hmm, never thought to much about it to be honest! Except soap quantity which you get a good idea after using for a while, the rest is more or less standard.

Well soaked brush, a light squeeze, 100-160 swirls, bowl lather, adding water in increments (I use 2 bowls, so dip the brush whenever I feel like I need more). Other than that, just keep swirling until it looks good, non-bubbly, soft peaks for me.

 

[APBinNCA]

The soaps that do work with the Italian barber method are kind of fun because you pick up your proto lather and proceed to lather without any water addition usually. I don't do this as often as I probably should, so at least I keep familiar with this method.

My universal rule with lather building is add water a little at a time. Every single soap, bowl or face lathering. It's really simple to say, but in the past I have been asked for more specific instructions and have paid more careful attention to what I am actually doing. I don't really want to type out a lathering tutorial since I think a general outline is what's asked for here. I think reading the lather is a learned skill like shaving itself. You need to agitate the soap to build a lather, but you need to not overdo it and create huge bubbles. But some soaps actually require you to push through a bubble phase and they can be hard to figure out. Some soaps require a pretty narrow range of hydration as their ingredients in themselves provide the face protection and are sensitive to being diluted requiring a return to the puck if the lather can be saved. Some have such a wide range of hydration that figuring out what is optimal can be a bit of a trade off. I have some soaps that provide pillowy cushiony protective lather, but they become a razor clogging paste that literally won't wash off if I push the hydration that low. Just a little more water before using it is all it takes, but reading that takes experience. You can keep adding water until you break the lather as a test and I have done that, but you need some way to keep track of how much water you are adding for that to be useful.

One test that I do like to perform is using the back of my hand to apply lather and leaving it to see how it develops. I will start with what I think is the minimum water, paint some on and add some water, repeat several times. Let it dry down and see what it looks like, does it remain stable? Does it hold water long enough to shave before it drys out? Or does it turn to powder and flake off? Rub it a bit as is then with a dab of water to test the residual slickness. Do this for each test patch and analyse the results and decide what is optimum for you.

Alright, I think I have gotten close enough to writing a dissertation now so I better stop and let others add their thoughts.

 

[silverlifter]

I'm the opposite. Same ritual for every soap: whether it is a stick, hard puck or cream. Get it on my face, smush it around, add water drops to the brush if required, paint it into place and then start shaving.

I know that it can be a ritual, but for me, the whole precision loading™ stuff is ridiculous. You are lathering your face, not baking a cake.

If you want to turn it into a science, good for you, but at my age life is too short to pretend there is any methodology required to grease your chops before going at them with a naked blade.

Now, get off my lawn...

 

[lasta]

I've read the optimal lather wiki (precise water to soap added all at once) and the Italian method. I'm sure it works for some people, but really, far too much work for the mornings!

Use enough soap, err on the side if overloading. Soaps last too long, use it like you hate it!

Add water incrementally.

Work it till it looks right!

 

[EclipseRedRing]

I face lather exclusively and have recently experience a big improvement in my lather by removing my puck from the mug and rubbing it on my face in the style of a shave stick. Every soap now works really well, including those with which I previously struggled. I tried this after noting that several of my soaps seemed to work better in stick form, rather than as a puck loading the brush from a mug. All my pucks are better this way, Yardley, Cussons Imperial Leather, Goya, Old Spice, even Tabac.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I start with a damp brush--dunked or soaked depending on the type of bristles, then shook out. I load until it looks about right. Then I start working it either on my face or in my bowl (I do both depending on my mood) and add water slowly by wetting the tips. Some soaps take more, some less. Then I shave. If I run out, I load more. If I have leftover I run it down the drain.

The thing about adding water slowly is that if you didn't load enough soap you can still get the lather right.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Load enough soap onto a fairly damp brush & face lather. You learn how much of each type of soap to load by trial and error. Add water gradually two or three times to make the lather consistency almost but not quite runny. That's about it.

The Marco method also works well for some soaps as an alternative. In this case, your brush already holds all the water you'll need.

 

[gdawg55]

I tend to treat all my soaps the same. Damp brush, 20-30 secs of loading, bowl lather, add water as needed. Only exception is PAA CK6 soap….5 swirls is all it takes to have enough lather for two shaves.

 

[JCarr]

Stirling soaps need a little more water at the bottom of the bowl...other than that...damp brush and keep whipping it up. Add little bits of water until shiny.

 

[musicman1951]

The only thing that changes for me is load time. MdC is around 4 seconds, others up to 8 seconds. If they take longer than that I don't allow them in my den.

 

[CANES]

My only difference in anything is picking the right brush for the right mug, I guess. I normally use soaps that aren't technically "shaving" soaps, so I have bars of Savon de Marseille, Dove and my own M&P/homemade stuff jammed into mugs or bowls of different heights and widths. I cannot stand the clink-clink noise of the brush hitting the mug (and my wife hates it even more at 0300 when I can't sleep and decide to get the day started) so I pick the brush that works with whatever mug of the day to not make the extra noise. Loading and then face lathering stays the same.

Just so you know that I'm as nerdy as you guys, I actually wrote down which brushes works best for whatever mug and have that taped to my bathroom mirror in case I forget.

 

[Lane101]

The only thing that changes for me is load time. MdC is around 4 seconds, others up to 8 seconds. If they take longer than that I don't allow them in my den.

Hi Musicman, Thank you for responding. Have seen your many excellent posts regarding your MdC usage. Recall you get over a years worth of shaves from a jar of MdC. Based on prices you've noted am I correct that you purchase the 200 gram jars of MdC? If so you are using just over a half gram of MdC per shave - non unreasonable for a high quality soap. Is MdC a soft soap (saw one of you posts where you referred to it as somewhat soft) that allows you to load in just 4 seconds or is there something special in your loading technique or brushes used? How do you build the lather after loading and how many passes are you shaves after the 4 second load? Would like to understand if it's anything beyond just the nature of MdC that enables such a short loading time.

For my hard soaps it takes about a minute to load, while simultaneously building lather on the puck, roughly a gram of soap with my plissoft synthetics (Razorock Monster and Big Bruce) with some exceptions like Mitchell's where, with use of a stiffer boar, 2 grams comes off the puck in a minute (as noted above twice what I likely need) and Williams where a minute with a boar pulls 6-7 tenths of a gram off the puck. I finish the lather build via face lathering to support a 2+ pass shave. Only my LEA and Cyril R. Salter creams are close to your 4-8 second load time and in those cases I don't load the brush, instead I apply the product directly to my face prior to building lather with a plissoft brush. Even my Proraso Red croap requires 20 seconds of loading time to generate the lather I prefer.

 

[Lane101]

My only difference in anything is picking the right brush for the right mug, I guess. I normally use soaps that aren't technically "shaving" soaps, so I have bars of Savon de Marseille, Dove and my own M&P/homemade stuff jammed into mugs or bowls of different heights and widths. I cannot stand the clink-clink noise of the brush hitting the mug (and my wife hates it even more at 0300 when I can't sleep and decide to get the day started) so I pick the brush that works with whatever mug of the day to not make the extra noise. Loading and then face lathering stays the same.

Just so you know that I'm as nerdy as you guys, I actually wrote down which brushes works best for whatever mug and have that taped to my bathroom mirror in case I forget.

I've also done a lot of experimentation blending different shaving soaps (Williams, Van Der Hagen, Arko and Proraso) and bar soaps (Dove, Ivory and one time Zote) to deliver core shaving performance for under $3.00 per puck that is as good as any off-the-shelf shaving soap I own. My brush menu is simple either a 26mm plissoft or same sized boar knot. Use the latter for my two hardest soaps.

 

[musicman1951]

Hi Musicman, Thank you for responding. Have seen your many excellent posts regarding your MdC usage. Recall you get over a years worth of shaves from a jar of MdC. Based on prices you've noted am I correct that you purchase the 200 gram jars of MdC? If so you are using just over a half gram of MdC per shave - non unreasonable for a high quality soap. Is MdC a soft soap (saw one of you posts where you referred to it as somewhat soft) that allows you to load in just 4 seconds or is there something special in your loading technique or brushes used? How do you build the lather after loading and how many passes are you shaves after the 4 second load? Would like to understand if it's anything beyond just the nature of MdC that enables such a short loading time.

For my hard soaps it takes about a minute to load, while simultaneously building lather on the puck, roughly a gram of soap with my plissoft synthetics (Razorock Monster and Big Bruce) with some exceptions like Mitchell's where, with use of a stiffer boar, 2 grams comes off the puck in a minute (as noted above twice what I likely need) and Williams where a minute with a boar pulls 6-7 tenths of a gram off the puck. I finish the lather build via face lathering to support a 2+ pass shave. Only my LEA and Cyril R. Salter creams are close to your 4-8 second load time and in those cases I don't load the brush, instead I apply the product directly to my face prior to building lather with a plissoft brush. Even my Proraso Red croap requires 20 seconds of loading time to generate the lather I prefer.

I use the MdC almost every day, so there may be something to it never getting ridiculously dried out - but that's just a guess.

There are a few factors involved in how fast the load happens: quality of water/backbone of brush/technique (splay/pressure, speed)/hardness of soap/ etc. But I suspect one of the biggest factors - it is for me - is the amount of water left in the brush. The Marco method leaves most of the water in the brush, but it is so wet that applying pressure wouldn't work without making a mess. The other end of that spectrum is a brush that's too dry (probably the wrong word as it's still damp). That would work fine, but require many more seconds of load time.

I try and leave the perfect amount of water in the brush for making lather - i.e., so I don't have to add more water while making the lather. Needless to say, I often miss my mark. If I don't leave enough water in the brush it's easy enough to just add more as I build lather (which often happens). If I leave too much water in the brush I make a bit of a mess on the puck and end up with thinner lather than usual. I could obviously go back to the puck for more soap - but that would make a ton of lather, and many shavers here sing the praises of thinner lather, so I just go with the flow and see how I like it.

I often use an SOC 2 band badger and a Mistura boar/badger mix, which are both quite a bit stiffer than a synthetic. I also use some pressure on the puck to splay the brush a little. Those things, along with water, could make quite a difference. Aside from MdC, I use SV and Haslingers. If I loaded any of those soaps for a minute I'd have enough lather to shave all the men on my side of the street. I use a Goldilocks amount of lather, not to thick, not too thin, and I assume that people who favor very thin lathers would load for a shorter time. 4 seconds on MdC is enough for 3 passes.

But having said all that, what difference does it really make? I don't suggest anyone go out and buy brushes with more backbone so they can shorten their load time. I don't suggest anyone care about their loading technique either. What would you do with an extra minute in your day? It's fun to discuss (because we're shaving enthusiasts - which sounds better than shaving geeks), but the only thing that actually matters is loading until you've got the amount of soap you want and then getting on with the fun part.

 

[CANES]

I've also done a lot of experimentation blending different shaving soaps (Williams, Van Der Hagen, Arko and Proraso) and bar soaps (Dove, Ivory and one time Zote) to deliver core shaving performance for under $3.00 per puck that is as good as any off-the-shelf shaving soap I own. My brush menu is simple either a 26mm plissoft or same sized boar knot. Use the latter for my two hardest soaps.

I have read many of your threads over my time here. I figure we're probably related somehow.

 

[Lane101]

I use the MdC almost every day, so there may be something to it never getting ridiculously dried out - but that's just a guess.

There are a few factors involved in how fast the load happens: quality of water/backbone of brush/technique (splay/pressure, speed)/hardness of soap/ etc. But I suspect one of the biggest factors - it is for me - is the amount of water left in the brush. The Marco method leaves most of the water in the brush, but it is so wet that applying pressure wouldn't work without making a mess. The other end of that spectrum is a brush that's too dry (probably the wrong word as it's still damp). That would work fine, but require many more seconds of load time.

I try and leave the perfect amount of water in the brush for making lather - i.e., so I don't have to add more water while making the lather. Needless to say, I often miss my mark. If I don't leave enough water in the brush it's easy enough to just add more as I build lather (which often happens). If I leave too much water in the brush I make a bit of a mess on the puck and end up with thinner lather than usual. I could obviously go back to the puck for more soap - but that would make a ton of lather, and many shavers here sing the praises of thinner lather, so I just go with the flow and see how I like it.

I often use an SOC 2 band badger and a Mistura boar/badger mix, which are both quite a bit stiffer than a synthetic. I also use some pressure on the puck to splay the brush a little. Those things, along with water, could make quite a difference. Aside from MdC, I use SV and Haslingers. If I loaded any of those soaps for a minute I'd have enough lather to shave all the men on my side of the street. I use a Goldilocks amount of lather, not to thick, not too thin, and I assume that people who favor very thin lathers would load for a shorter time. 4 seconds on MdC is enough for 3 passes.

But having said all that, what difference does it really make? I don't suggest anyone go out and buy brushes with more backbone so they can shorten their load time. I don't suggest anyone care about their loading technique either. What would you do with an extra minute in your day? It's fun to discuss (because we're shaving enthusiasts - which sounds better than shaving geeks), but the only thing that actually matters is loading until you've got the amount of soap you want and then getting on with the fun part.

Keith, Thank you. Really excellent example of how you've honed in on the specific tools, soaps and technique that work best for you over your decade plus wet shaving journey.

Also really appreciate how you articulate your respect for the wide range of approaches taken shaving by our fellow B&Bers.

Best wishes for a happy holiday season!

 

[Doc Dan]

I am a lather heretic, I'll admit. For soaps like A&E and B&M I thoroughly wet my brush, give it three shakes, and load until it looks promising. Then, I move to my bowl and continue to build the lather until it is close. I finish the lathering process on my face. For very soaps like MWF and GFT, the first time before I use them, I soak them overnight. After that, I thoroughly wet my brush, give it three shakes, and gently squeeze the brush to remove excess water still remaining. Then, I load like a madman for a minute or more, depending on how it looks. I move to my bowl and if I need more water, I'll add it drop by drop. Then, I move to my face and build it to its final form. I will rake off the excess lather back into the bowl and pick it up with the brush tips. If I need more water when face lathering, I carefully wet just a few of the tips of my brush and go back to face lathering.

Another thing: I don't look for Gillette Foamy looking mounds of lather. I want lather that is stable, dense, and very slick.