"Honyama Quarry Stones" Q: What do I have here?

[honed]

This stone arrived & I tested it on a razor a few days ago.
That particular razor is a big Wostenholm that just had started to pull a bit
It had before been honed by Martin @ rasurpur.de, so it originally had one great edge.
25 light laps enhanced the edge considerably, sharp & nice against the skin.
Not coticule smooth, but really nice, gave a very close, comfortable shave.

But what is this stone?
I bought it because Chimensch recommended it & when ordering other stuff from dick.biz, it sort of just slid in to the shopping cart...

It's a J-nat of course, Dick calls it a "Honoyama Quarry Stone" http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product/711303/detail.jsf

But the stone I got looked nothing like the one in Dick's picture (see mine further down in this post)

On the paper included with the stone it was called a "Toishi"
Some googling makes me think that this stone is intended for putting a nice finish on tools.
But obviously it work for me & for Mr Chimensch.
And it's dirt cheap compared to what people pay for "real" J-nats.

I honestly haven't done much research on J-nats, because they are so far out of my price-range.
So I would just be torturing myself with a new AD that I couldn't indulge in...

But do you guys have any clues about this one?
What does the stamp say, should they be lapped out?
It is perfectly flat now, so I didn't & they seemed allright to hone over so to speak.

What is it I got here?

additional info:
It smells "chalky" & it does produce a slight slurry when I hone on it with water only.

 

[taffy]

I was actually looking at buying one of these last week, but never got round to it, so i will be looking at this post of yours, and as you say, not like the photo on the website at all.
ps,if you hone anymore with it, keep us updated.

 

[mainaman]

the stamp does not say where the stone comes from, many stones from different mines have that one.

 

[professorchaos]

No idea what the stamps say...now that you have a picture for posterity's sake, I wouldn't worry too much about them.

How hard or how quickly does it soak up water?

Next time you need to touch up an edge, try raising a milky slurry. Hone until it get starts to thicken. Rinse everything off, raise a new slurry and hone until it thickens then becomes a thin film.

 

[honed]

No idea what the stamps say...now that you have a picture for posterity's sake, I wouldn't worry too much about them.

How hard or how quickly does it soak up water?

Next time you need to touch up an edge, try raising a milky slurry. Hone until it get starts to thicken. Rinse everything off, raise a new slurry and hone until it thickens then becomes a thin film.

I'd say very hard stone. Water I do not know, I will check.

Thanks for the tip of how to use the slurry. Or "mud" as you J-natters say, right
I will try it!

 

[mainaman]

I'd say very hard stone. Water I do not know, I will check.

Thanks for the tip of how to use the slurry. Or "mud" as you J-natters say, right
I will try it!

how quickly absorbs watter will tell you how hard it is.
In the end all that matters is if the stone can put great edge on your razors.

 

[heirkb]

how quickly absorbs watter will tell you how hard it is.
In the end all that matters is if the stone can put great edge on your razors.

I'm assuming that if a stone is quick to absorb water, it's soft, right?

 

[mainaman]

I'm assuming that if a stone is quick to absorb water, it's soft, right?

yes but the question is how quick is quick.
Here is a test that someone did for the stones he has that might give you some idea of a time frame:
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/886123/

 

[Chimensch]

I've been using this stone for about a year now. It is very hard and doesn't soak up much water. In fact, the water beads so much that I use of drop of liquid soap. I use it after finishing on the coticule, the edge it provides is not as smooth as the coticule but it is much sharper (and I don't like using the tape that you have to add to get keeness on the coticule). I define "sharpness" by how long the BBS lasts after a shave. This stone provides BBS for at least 10-11 hours. I have also been getting great results using the nagura that Dick sells to raise a slurry. I haven't used it to set a bevel but I think you probably could. I'm going to try that someday.

 

[honed]

I've been using this stone for about a year now. It is very hard and doesn't soak up much water. In fact, the water beads so much that I use of drop of liquid soap. I use it after finishing on the coticule, the edge it provides is not as smooth as the coticule but it is much sharper (and I don't like using the tape that you have to add to get keeness on the coticule). I define "sharpness" by how long the BBS lasts after a shave. This stone provides BBS for at least 10-11 hours. I have also been getting great results using the nagura that Dick sells to raise a slurry. I haven't used it to set a bevel but I think you probably could. I'm going to try that someday.

Nice you chimed in
I first got the hint on this stone from one of your posts.
It definitely creates a nice edge, my observations after merely two shaves with razors finished with it, is the same as yours, sharper then coticule finish, not as smooth, but "smooth enough" for a great shave.

I have a synthetic nagura that I use to clean my Naniwas, but I believe it is to coarse for this one.
I also understand that with a variety of different naguras, you get different results, but these finer naguras are harder to come by & more expensive if I've understood everything correctly.

 

[professorchaos]

Nice you chimed in
I first got the hint on this stone from one of your posts.
It definitely creates a nice edge, my observations after merely two shaves with razors finished with it, is the same as yours, sharper then coticule finish, not as smooth, but "smooth enough" for a great shave.

I have a synthetic nagura that I use to clean my Naniwas, but I believe it is to coarse for this one.
I also understand that with a variety of different naguras, you get different results, but these finer naguras are harder to come by & more expensive if I've understood everything correctly.

You can use a small DMT, really any coarser diamond hone, to raise a slurry/mud. If I understand the process correctly, traditionally the last nagura used would ideally be the same composition as the hone.

 

[honed]

You can use a small DMT, really any coarser diamond hone, to raise a slurry/mud. If I understand the process correctly, traditionally the last nagura used would ideally be the same composition as the hone.

I'll whip out my pocket DMT & have a go at it, hopefully tonight when I'm back home. I miss my shop, my hones & my straights.





Oh, right, the wife & the kids too of course

 

[mainaman]

Nice you chimed in
I first got the hint on this stone from one of your posts.
It definitely creates a nice edge, my observations after merely two shaves with razors finished with it, is the same as yours, sharper then coticule finish, not as smooth, but "smooth enough" for a great shave.

.

how does the edge smoothness improve if you use CrO after the stone?
Also I how do you use it with slurry , no slurry ?

 

[professorchaos]

I'll whip out my pocket DMT & have a go at it, hopefully tonight when I'm back home. I miss my shop, my hones & my straights.





Oh, right, the wife & the kids too of course

Fun, isn't it?

 

[honed]

how does the edge smoothness improve if you use CrO after the stone?
Also I how do you use it with slurry , no slurry ?

CrOx did improve the edge, mostly by smoothing it a bit.
SO far I've only shaved with a water only edge.
I tried the good professors advice, but I didn't get it right I think.
There is still only a few shaves I've had with this stone's edge.
But I do see good potential, especially if I get the slurry right.
I read up on JimR's excellent posts on his blog. Very interesting!

Fun, isn't it?

Indeed
Actually, it is far more fun than my economy & spare time can handle at the moment.
The silent alarm has already set off in the back of my head;
HAD-ALERT - HAD-ALERT

 

[professorchaos]

HAD-ALERT - HAD-ALERT

Watch out. J-Nat AD is one of the most dangerous.

 

[mainaman]

Watch out. J-Nat AD is one of the most dangerous.

and expensive.

 

[honed]

Watch out. J-Nat AD is one of the most dangerous.

and expensive.

That's why I haven't even thought of venturing that way...
But now it seems that I have taken a few steps down that road of damnation anyway

I had the nicest shave this morning so far with an edge from this stone,
with a E.A Berg full hollow, previously honed on coticule, using dilucot.
It still shaved great, but to try this stone I gave if about 50 laps with water only, & after about 25 laps some slurry appeared & at 50 it was somewhat dried out.
The edge was really nice, very sharp & still smooth enough for a comfortable shave.

On another note, I do find it a bit curious that out of the at least 8 or 10 "recognized honemeisters" that have honed razors for me in the past, none have finished on a J-nat.
I always ask what stone that they have used & none have used a japanese finisher.
And none of the shave-ready ones I've bought on BST either.

Still the ones who uses J-nats raves about them & there seems to be a general consensus that it is hard to get an edge that is better for shaving then from a high-end J-nat.

Strange indeed
Is it cost? Consistency? Time?

So I haven't actually tried an edge honed on any of the more famous J-nat, like the Nakayama Kiita or Asagi & the other ninjasharp-stones.

And maybe that is what still keeps me from taking out a second mortgage

 

[Chimensch]

That's why I haven't even thought of venturing that way...
But now it seems that I have taken a few steps down that road of damnation anyway

I had the nicest shave this morning so far with an edge from this stone,
with a E.A Berg full hollow, previously honed on coticule, using dilucot.
It still shaved great, but to try this stone I gave if about 50 laps with water only, & after about 25 laps some slurry appeared & at 50 it was somewhat dried out.
The edge was really nice, very sharp & still smooth enough for a comfortable shave.

On another note, I do find it a bit curious that out of the at least 8 or 10 "recognized honemeisters" that have honed razors for me in the past, none have finished on a J-nat.
I always ask what stone that they have used & none have used a japanese finisher.
And none of the shave-ready ones I've bought on BST either.

Still the ones who uses J-nats raves about them & there seems to be a general consensus that it is hard to get an edge that is better for shaving then from a high-end J-nat.

Strange indeed
Is it cost? Consistency? Time?

So I haven't actually tried an edge honed on any of the more famous J-nat, like the Nakayama Kiita or Asagi & the other ninjasharp-stones.

And maybe that is what still keeps me from taking out a second mortgage

I'm very happy with the results that I've getting from this stone but I was curious to see if it could be improved. I worked with So Yamashita to select a narrow Jnat (my hones have to be narrow) that would be ideal for razors. He explained to me that a lot of the prices were high because a particular stone was "trendy" at the moment and he selected a stone that was not outrageously expensive but that was outstanding for razors, a Shoubudani, if I recall correctly. I honed a razor with the more expensive stone and it was very good, but not noticeably better than the Honyama stone we are discussing in this thread. My advice is to save your money because I don't think the additional performance you might get from a more expensive stone is going to justify the difference in price. But if your curiosity gets the better of you or you think that you can get more out of a hone than I can (which I freely admit is possible) then I wish you good luck.

 

[Woodash]

That's why I haven't even thought of venturing that way...
But now it seems that I have taken a few steps down that road of damnation anyway

I had the nicest shave this morning so far with an edge from this stone,
with a E.A Berg full hollow, previously honed on coticule, using dilucot.
It still shaved great, but to try this stone I gave if about 50 laps with water only, & after about 25 laps some slurry appeared & at 50 it was somewhat dried out.
...
Strange indeed
Is it cost? Consistency? Time?

They all seem to have a different personalities (hardness, grit, effect of slurries, etc.). They're very subtle. It takes some time to figure out how to best use each one, I think moreso than a lot of other stones - e.g., refreshed rounds of slurry, slurry allowed to dry to ~paste, finish on water, etc. It is a very interesting process trying to find out just what works best for each stone. I get pretty good results from mine, but I am a long way from getting all that I can out of these things.