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Honing the 70HRC Titan Razor

I’d buy one just to hone it but it costs a good bit more than I think that it’s worth.
You would probably regret buying it! Lol. I think most people would agree that plain ole .6 carbon steel is more than adequate for shaving. But I'm guilty of it myself with some of the edcs I have. You don't need a high vanadium steel to open letters or packages! Lol.
 
You would probably regret buying it! Lol. I think most people would agree that plain ole .6 carbon steel is more than adequate for shaving. But I'm guilty of it myself with some of the edcs I have. You don't need a high vanadium steel to open letters or packages! Lol.

Adequate is hardly the point, with a razor like this. Yes, it's probably not worth the price, which is uncomfortably close to the cheapest of the Aust razors, which are extremely well made, which this is not. But if you choose a lion instead of a cat as a house pet, you do not do it because it is cost effective. You do it because you want to challenge yourself, to see if you can tame it.
 
Adequate is hardly the point, with a razor like this. Yes, it's probably not worth the price, which is uncomfortably close to the cheapest of the Aust razors, which are extremely well made, which this is not. But if you choose a lion instead of a cat as a house pet, you do not do it because it is cost effective. You do it because you want to challenge yourself, to see if you can tame it.
Sure i hear you. But i been there and done that with some of that stuff already not that particular blade and hardness. Im not discouraging anyone from doing anything. They sell tungsten pocket knives. And admittedly some people buy for that exact reason. Regarding pets? I have a hundred pound chocolate lab and a black cat of unknown origin. A lion sounds a bit spendy and too much maintenance! But have at it if thats your thing! But i dont regret the little furball. His name is "Bob" by the way! And my Bob is a very good mouser, like a ninja which is useful. Theres no big game around here unfortunately. ANd I doubt a lion could catch as many mice as he does and low frills, low cost. He dont eat so much and he doesnt $^&* that much either. LOL
 
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The tungsten blade isnt stupid if someone wants to buy one. Not for me. But its marketing. And it works! To each their own. ANd make sure you feed the lion tonight. I hear they can be very "unmanageable" if theyre hungry! :c9:
 
The tungsten blade isnt stupid if someone wants to buy one. Not for me. But its marketing. And it works! To each their own. ANd make sure you feed the lion tonight. I hear they can be very "unmanageable" if theyre hungry! :c9:

Your attitude is very good, and you're right, if someone wants that, more power to them. Hard to imagine what sharpening the thing is like, though.

I will feed the lion, but I have not decided whether to feed it Shapton or something else. Possible other choices: a couple of creamy JNat finishers; some CBN stones of 8000 and 15000 grit (but they're only EdgePro size). Decisions, decisions.
 
I would see what stone reacts the best to the razor. I would raise a dmt slurry and see before finishing time. The cbn stones? My venev bonded are 100% meaning the content leaves a slightly scratchy surface finish. They offer 25% for a more mirror finish. FOr a knife a little tooth is fine. And we are talking 3200 grit max of what I have. I have no idea as i never used a cbn stone. Its likely they are made for knives. I could be wrong. The diamond lapping film should work very well for that type of steel. Although i never liked the shave off of film. Keep plugging!
 
I’d buy one just to hone it but it costs a good bit more than I think that it’s worth.
Of the three Titans I recently tried, each made from a different alloy, this is the one that most nearly resembles a proper straight razor, has the best geometry, hones and shaves the best, and actually is the cheapest, too. This one is kinda worth the money. Don't let the flat spacer or the humongous knife rivets throw you off. I actually sorta like this one. No it isn't anywhere close to HRC 70 but that's totally acceptable.
 
Thanks for the Shapton suggestion.

The Shapton 16K and the 70 HRC razor seem to really like each other. What was I thinking, putting stainless steel on my JNats?

The microscope points out why you don't hear Shapton mentioned a lot as a razor hone -- a really fine polish, with rogue scratches. But it still all adds up to what feels like a great edge. The heel and toe are not yet coming along for the ride, but that's just a matter of time and focus, now that I have the right tool for the job.

The 30K is waiting in the wings, for when that part is done. Then on to the balsa strop sequence, and then I can actually shave with this razor instead of just hunching over it as I run it over a stone. About time!
 
OK, yeah, the 30K did good things too. It still has the rogue scratches.
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And there's a little ding here and there because super-hard steel does not really enjoy leading-edge strokes, but the underlying polish is very fine, comparable to the 0.25 micron balsa strop, and I think I have something to move on with, for shaving. Balsa strops next.

The heel and toe are not so happy. Sharp, but bitey. I probably would have needed to drop back to the 6K to get them playing nice with the others. It's interesting that I get a burr on them, but they still do not resolve as they should. I'll figure that one out someday.
 
And now, the final chapter. Went through 100 strokes each on the diamond-pasted balsa sequence (0.5, 0.25, 0.1), which put me here.
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...which will do, despite some visible imperfections. So, leather, and, at long last, a shave.

I think I came in to the shave with low expectations. Part of that was the floppy pivot, and the uneven geometry. But also, I had so little fun honing it, compared to the usual, that it seemed natural to stay mad at it all the way through the shave. Turned out that wasn't fair.

It was a good shave, except when I had to use the scratchy toe, or forgot I could use something else. Close, reasonably comfortable beyond the toe, and the rigid metal was not hard to adjust to -- certainly easier than adjusting to the motion freedom of a full hollow. I enjoyed the shave.

So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a razor that I like well enough to want to fix the bevel. I think I'll take the idea suggested above, and stick to diamonds and CBN entirely. I now recall that it can actually be fun to sharpen hard stainless on diamond/CBN, and it seems like the only practical way to even out the bevel, since thousands of strokes on a Shapton Glass 500 did not quite manage it.

Was it worth the price? It was for me, I guess, because I got a good shave, and I also got a useful lesson, a new kind of razor problem to solve, new things to learn. Added together, I got my money's worth. Would I buy the razor, at the price they ask for it, just for the shave? No way. But would I be tempted if they did a 70HRC carbon steel version? Yeah, I would.
 
.... But would I be tempted if they did a 70HRC carbon steel version? Yeah, I would.
Unfortunately I think you would find it almost impossible to source a high cardon steel SR with a 70RHC. You could try the Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 which is an SR of the same geometry but in a HCS with about 60RHC and much cheaper.
Of the four main types of Titan SR's (ACRM-2 T.H.60, VG10HZ T.H.63, ACRO T.H.64 and ACRO T.H.70), my preference is for the T.H60 and the T.H.70.

Comparing the T.H.60 and the T.H.70, I find the 60 to be easier to hone (less work required as expected) and the 70 holds its edge much longer. I also find that the 70 can be honed to a "sharper" edge.
 
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Unfortunately I think you would find it almost impossible to source a high cardon steel SR with a 70RHC. You could try the Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 which is an SR of the same geometry but in a HCS with about 60RHC and much cheaper.
Of the four main types of Titan SR's (ACRM-2 T.H.60, VG10HZ T.H.63, ACRO T.H.64 and ACRO T.H.70), my preference is for the T.H60 and the T.H.70.

Comparing the T.H.60 and the T.H.70, I find the 60 to be easier to hone (less work required as expected) and the 70 holds its edge much longer. I also find that the 70 can be honed to a "sharper" edge.
I am curious about this. I have gotten 100 shaves per.hone on plain carbon steel no paste touchup clean linen and leather. I generally shave at least 50 times before I touch up anything now. And usually the blade is shaving fine at that level. But at 50 shaves and I shave 3 times a week the stones get lonely and I do this just to do it.. my thoughts on the subject are that harder steel reacts less to stropping. Which is the activity that keeps the blade shaving. I'm thinking a harder blade would react less to the "sharpening" effect of clean stropping(no paste) than a softer one. How many shaves do you think difference between 60 and 70?
 
I have no desire to explore this geometry further. It feels clunky, and I think the angle of the edge is less acute than I prefer. It is one of the hardest razors to flip over when stropping in my experience, not excluding my gigantic Butch Harner. The floppy scale attachment does not help, of course. Someday I need to learn how to correct that.

However, I am enjoying the challenge it presents, despite its many shortcomings, and I am pleased that I actually got it to turn out a decent shave along most of the edge. I am currently trying to tame the smile enough to get an actual bevel at the heel and toe, but it is slow going, even with a 400 grit diamond stone. I admit I took a break and did some honing on one of my good razors, and it did me a world of good, very spiritually fulfilling, and now I am ready to go back into the fray.
 
I have no desire to explore this geometry further. It feels clunky, and I think the angle of the edge is less acute than I prefer. It is one of the hardest razors to flip over when stropping in my experience, not excluding my gigantic Butch Harner. The floppy scale attachment does not help, of course. Someday I need to learn how to correct that.

However, I am enjoying the challenge it presents, despite its many shortcomings, and I am pleased that I actually got it to turn out a decent shave along most of the edge. I am currently trying to tame the smile enough to get an actual bevel at the heel and toe, but it is slow going, even with a 400 grit diamond stone. I admit I took a break and did some honing on one of my good razors, and it did me a world of good, very spiritually fulfilling, and now I am ready to go back into the fray.

Asian manufacturers, other than Japanese of course, have a prediliction for very obtuse bevel angles, and often a very hard steel is compensated further with an even bigger bevel angle. Pretty sure that steel would actually not be very good at all with a 16 degree bevel. I don't remember where my ACRM-2 razor came in but it is reasonable, or at least usable.

I am actually kind of wondering if the discomfort you experienced might be caused by the obtuse bevel angle. I have always thought that a big bevel angle would make a razor feel more gentle but I have never really put that theory to the test. The edge pics did look pretty good, and I have had very smooth shaving razors that looked not much different from that. I do know for a fact that a compound bevel will make for a very gentle edge.

Part of the scale issue is the weight of the scales. They would flop a lot less vigorously if they were about 1/3 the weight. Metal lining and a huge flat spacer are probably your culprit. Maybe you can get used to it. Meanwhile try wrapping about two turns of tape around the pivot area. Should help a little bit. That's another point in favor of the plain vanilla $20 ACRM model.

Have you tried a Gold Dollar 208 or P81, or any of the stainless GD models?
 
Asian manufacturers, other than Japanese of course, have a prediliction for very obtuse bevel angles, and often a very hard steel is compensated further with an even bigger bevel angle. Pretty sure that steel would actually not be very good at all with a 16 degree bevel. I don't remember where my ACRM-2 razor came in but it is reasonable, or at least usable.

My smile-reduction efforts ought to have reduced the angle, at least a little. I do resist your claim that the steel would not work at 16 degrees inclusive. Not because I have any idea whether you're right or not, but because it seems like that should be a sharpening problem. I'd think it could work, even if the final honing stages were all trailing-edge.

I am actually kind of wondering if the discomfort you experienced might be caused by the obtuse bevel angle. I have always thought that a big bevel angle would make a razor feel more gentle but I have never really put that theory to the test. The edge pics did look pretty good, and I have had very smooth shaving razors that looked not much different from that. I do know for a fact that a compound bevel will make for a very gentle edge.

The discomfort was all in the toe, and my thumb could feel just how raspy that was. The middle was fine, comfort-wise. Not awesome, but OK.

Part of the scale issue is the weight of the scales. They would flop a lot less vigorously if they were about 1/3 the weight. Metal lining and a huge flat spacer are probably your culprit. Maybe you can get used to it. Meanwhile try wrapping about two turns of tape around the pivot area. Should help a little bit. That's another point in favor of the plain vanilla $20 ACRM model.

The scales have no metal liners, only metal at the toe end (and of course whatever metal is involved in the pivot). They are indeed heavy, though, for whatever reason. Getting used to it seems unlikely. I am willing to try the tape, but I am unclear both what sort of tape would be appropriate, and where it should be applied. I admit I was hoping that your advice would be something like "get a ball peen hammer and learn how to use it," but I am a neophyte in the ways of scales.

Have you tried a Gold Dollar 208 or P81, or any of the stainless GD models?

No. But I would pretty much never buy a stainless steel razor. I just don't like sharpening or honing stainless steel. This was an exceptional case, because I wanted to match my skills against this improbably-hard razor. Among the carbon steel razors, what would you suggest?
 
Asian manufacturers, other than Japanese of course, have a prediliction for very obtuse bevel angles, and often a very hard steel is compensated further with an even bigger bevel angle. Pretty sure that steel would actually not be very good at all with a 16 degree bevel.
Huh! Very hard Japanese Kitchen knives are often at lower inclusive angles than this.
 
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