Honing question

[Slash McCoy]

How often does a blade need to be honed? I was thinking once a year. Newb question.

Depends.

Anywhere from every three weeks to a couple times a year to only once in your lifetime. I never have to rehone my razors. My post shave maintenance regimen with balsa strop keeps it much much sharper than most honers can get a razor in the first place. Still have to strop on leather, too. I hit the leather before shaving, the diamond on balsa after shaving.

Look for the sticky thread intitled "Newbie Honing Compendium". What many of us call "The Method".

What razor are you talking about? Oh I see you have a Gold Dollar... what model? More than likely, if it was not already made shave ready by someone very knowledgeable with them, you will be facing an insurmountable task, especially if this is your first straight razor and you are not yet an accomplished straight shaver. If it is straight out of the box, I strongly suggest you set it aside for now and start with a shave ready vintage razor from a trusted seller. Learn to shave with it. THEN learn to hone. THEN learn to hone the GD, because thats a whole nother critter.

 

[Steve1981]

What brand are they?

Unbranded, i can pick up all 4 only $50 CAD. Shipped from China.

 

[Steve1981]

Depends.

Anywhere from every three weeks to a couple times a year to only once in your lifetime. I never have to rehone my razors. My post shave maintenance regimen with balsa strop keeps it much much sharper than most honers can get a razor in the first place. Still have to strop on leather, too. I hit the leather before shaving, the diamond on balsa after shaving.

Look for the sticky thread intitled "Newbie Honing Compendium". What many of us call "The Method".

What razor are you talking about? Oh I see you have a Gold Dollar... what model? More than likely, if it was not already made shave ready by someone very knowledgeable with them, you will be facing an insurmountable task, especially if this is your first straight razor and you are not yet an accomplished straight shaver. If it is straight out of the box, I strongly suggest you set it aside for now and start with a shave ready vintage razor from a trusted seller. Learn to shave with it. THEN learn to hone. THEN learn to hone the GD, because thats a whole nother critter.

I know I know here is one shave ready I really like the style ( color ) carbon steel. Here is a photo.

 

[Slash McCoy]

BTW, if you are using stones instead of film, part of learning to hone is learning to lap the stone. You must lap before the first time you use them. You must re lap them periodically thereafter. If you think different, then get ready for a lot of frustration.

Do yourself a favor, when you are READY to learn to hone. Get a proper bevel setter. A 1k Chosera is about as good as it gets. I recommend film or sandpaper, for reasons that will be obvious after reading all the Method threads. But have it your way. What brand is your 3k and 8k stone? If they are Naniwa you made a pretty good choice. If they are noname ebay Chinese rocks, all bets are off. They might work okay. They might not. They will NOT work as good as a good stone. Or film. If they did, nobody would pay the price for Naniwa, Shapton, etc. They would buy the cheapie $30 fleabay stones.

If you can't shave with your 8k edge, then there is no point in trying to take it up to 12k or higher. You will be polishing a turd, as a few of our members so poetically put it. Having said that, you WILL want to go up to at least 12k for a finisher. Or 1u lapping film, which I highly recommend. See the thread.

 

[alex1921]

Yep. Stay away from cheap stones no name Chinese stones.. You will buy them, you will not be happy and if you stay in this hobby you will end up buying the stunted brand stones. So by buying the good ones you save money

 

[Slash McCoy]

I know I know here is one shave ready I really like the style ( color ) carbon steel. Here is a photo.

Looks like a #1996. If it was made shave ready by a member here, or one of the VERY SMALL MINORITY of sellers of "shave ready" razors that actually even know what that means, then get yourself a decent strop and get bizzy. Later, when it starts to feel a bit dull, refresh the edge with a 12k Naniwa or better yet, 1u film. You won't need the 3k/8k. That is your midrange. You only need a finisher if you have a good edge already. If you can pass the razor 1/4" above your forearm skin and see the razor treetop at least one or two hairs per pass, you have a proper shave ready edge. If you are already shaving with it with poor results, then it might be your shave technique or it might be the edge or it might be both. If good results, then you should see treetopping. Generally speaking. Or you might just THINK your shave is grand and be okay with punishing your face every morning. If it DOES treetop then you should be able to get a good shave from it and it does not need refreshing, strickly speaking.

That will be a much easier razor to learn to hone, than a #66. A "W" series is better but the 1996 is okay. 66 is fine, too, once you have thoroughly beaten it into submission. They are VERY crude razors, though the steel is surprisingly good.

 

[Steve1981]

BTW, if you are using stones instead of film, part of learning to hone is learning to lap the stone. You must lap before the first time you use them. You must re lap them periodically thereafter. If you think different, then get ready for a lot of frustration.

Do yourself a favor, when you are READY to learn to hone. Get a proper bevel setter. A 1k Chosera is about as good as it gets. I recommend film or sandpaper, for reasons that will be obvious after reading all the Method threads. But have it your way. What brand is your 3k and 8k stone? If they are Naniwa you made a pretty good choice. If they are noname ebay Chinese rocks, all bets are off. They might work okay. They might not. They will NOT work as good as a good stone. Or film. If they did, nobody would pay the price for Naniwa, Shapton, etc. They would buy the cheapie $30 fleabay stones.

If you can't shave with your 8k edge, then there is no point in trying to take it up to 12k or higher. You will be polishing a turd, as a few of our members so poetically put it. Having said that, you WILL want to go up to at least 12k for a finisher. Or 1u lapping film, which I highly recommend. See the thread.

Oh I have not done anything as of yet if that was the impression I gave. I know that I don't want to mess anything up. As of stones etc for sharpening I know nothing more than sometimes you get what you pay for. Or sometimes you get lucky!

 

[Steve1981]

Looks like a #1996. If it was made shave ready by a member here, or one of the VERY SMALL MINORITY of sellers of "shave ready" razors that actually even know what that means, then get yourself a decent strop and get bizzy. Later, when it starts to feel a bit dull, refresh the edge with a 12k Naniwa or better yet, 1u film. You won't need the 3k/8k. That is your midrange. You only need a finisher if you have a good edge already. If you can pass the razor 1/4" above your forearm skin and see the razor treetop at least one or two hairs per pass, you have a proper shave ready edge. If you are already shaving with it with poor results, then it might be your shave technique or it might be the edge or it might be both. If good results, then you should see treetopping. Generally speaking. Or you might just THINK your shave is grand and be okay with punishing your face every morning. If it DOES treetop then you should be able to get a good shave from it and it does not need refreshing, strickly speaking.

That will be a much easier razor to learn to hone, than a #66. A "W" series is better but the 1996 is okay. 66 is fine, too, once you have thoroughly beaten it into submission. They are VERY crude razors, though the steel is surprisingly good.

Thanks for the information. That's great. I'm glad you took the time to deal with me. And I'm glad that the 1996 is a decent razor!

 

[Steve1981]

Yep. Stay away from cheap stones no name Chinese stones.. You will buy them, you will not be happy and if you stay in this hobby you will end up buying the stunted brand stones. So by buying the good ones you save money

I tend to agree, I am going to save up and make sure I get the proper tools. And to add I know I am back and fourth, I am going to get a Japanese straight razor at a reasonable cost that I will be happy with. I can't have the cake and eat it to! I will learn about proper honing material at a later date ( preferably Japanese ) and making sure that I get all the proper grits that I think will work for me!

 

[mise-en-place]

I hone or touch up the moment I see any degradation in the edge. I don’t wait for it to pull or get uncomfortable. A few passes on the finishing stone and you’re right back where you were.

 

[MO1]

I am going to make sure I order a 12k to finish it off, I will just have to wait!

Just make sure that the razor you get is truely shave ready, factory shave ready is to me not even close to shave ready, then the 12k wont do you much good.
Alot of guys here know a few vendors who ships truely shave ready razors. i just cant remember who those vendors are.

 

[Steve1981]

Just make sure that the razor you get is truely shave ready, factory shave ready is to me not even close to shave ready, then the 12k wont do you much good.
Alot of guys here know a few vendors who ships truely shave ready razors. i just cant remember who those vendors are.

Well I know one of them is shavearmory in which that is where more than likely I would make my purchase. He has a canary yellow handled tasser kamisori Japanese straight carbon steel, at what I think is a great price. Would be a great starter for me pricing at $99 USD. Beautiful color, shavearmory seems to only use the best Japanese tools for honing and stropping. I could just buy it, the problem is the tools I will need to maintain that pretty blade. You see I was under the assumption you would only need to do honing at the most once every 3 months, so it would either use my 3000/8000 Chinese sharpening stone, which obviously I didn't do my research. As a body repair guy I only know a little bit about grits etc. That is all I knew. I will not use the Chinese stone, I will send it back, get refunded, wow not much, money is money. I don't have the sharpening stone now so I can't post a pic which b&b likes. I think it would make more sense in getting the tools that are suggested to me ( which is going to cost a pretty penny ) this is what will keep me happy! I am not the decision maker in my own home, it has to go both ways here! Girlfriend and then some, that's women for you in my opinion, sorry if I'm being myself with the way I think! I am happy with my shavette for now, does a great shave! PS. I am a hybrid I like de razor shaving as well as straight shaving! I never knew straight shaving could be so good, for me it is!

 

[MO1]

Well I know one of them is shavearmory in which that is where more than likely I would make my purchase. He has a canary yellow handled tasser kamisori Japanese straight carbon steel, at what I think is a great price. Would be a great starter for me pricing at $99 USD. Beautiful color, shavearmory seems to only use the best Japanese tools for honing and stropping. I could just buy it, the problem is the tools I will need to maintain that pretty blade. You see I was under the assumption you would only need to do honing at the most once every 3 months, so it would either use my 3000/8000 Chinese sharpening stone, which obviously I didn't do my research. As a body repair guy I only know a little bit about grits etc. That is all I knew. I will not use the Chinese stone, I will send it back, get refunded, wow not much, money is money. I don't have the sharpening stone now so I can't post a pic which b&b likes. I think it would make more sense in getting the tools that are suggested to me ( which is going to cost a pretty penny ) this is what will keep me happy! I am not the decision maker in my own home, it has to go both ways here! Girlfriend and then some, that's women for you in my opinion, sorry if I'm being myself with the way I think! I am happy with my shavette for now, does a great shave! PS. I am a hybrid I like de razor shaving as well as straight shaving! I never knew straight shaving could be so good, for me it is!

Ah i see!
I know nothing about shavearmory, sounds like they have some nice razors though, but if you have a straight razor that shaves well, then the 12k makes sense.
But this is a non ending rabbit hole, so it will probably not be your last stone.

The women part i get it. im married and we have two kids.
Im a stoneoholic. lucky for me my wife has a new hobby, hamsters.
So whenever she gets hamster stuff, i just happen to find a stone, if you know what i mean lol.

 

[Steve1981]

Ah i see!
I know nothing about shavearmory, sounds like they have some nice razors though, but if you have a straight razor that shaves well, then the 12k makes sense.
But this is a non ending rabbit hole, so it will probably not be your last stone.

The women part i get it. im married and we have two kids.
Im a stoneoholic. lucky for me my wife has a new hobby, hamsters.
So whenever she gets hamster stuff, i just happen to find a stone, if you know what i mean lol.

Lol, gotcha, sometimes that is how I get my way! Earlier in this thread I'm not sure who, I forget, maybe alex1921 don't quote me on that though said he uses 1,3,5,8 sharpening tools finished with a 12, I really like that idea! I am not sure if he uses Japanese can't remember, anyway it's going to cost me a lot of money at what I'm looking at! I also see what brands shavearmory uses on his Japanese straights very expensive and yet very professional. If I'm going to go for it, I want to do it in a professional manor. I would not even consider buying a razor until I get the tools first for honing/stropping. Very tempting though!

 

[Slash McCoy]

Well I know one of them is shavearmory in which that is where more than likely I would make my purchase. He has a canary yellow handled tasser kamisori Japanese straight carbon steel, at what I think is a great price. Would be a great starter for me pricing at $99 USD. Beautiful color, shavearmory seems to only use the best Japanese tools for honing and stropping. I could just buy it, the problem is the tools I will need to maintain that pretty blade. You see I was under the assumption you would only need to do honing at the most once every 3 months, so it would either use my 3000/8000 Chinese sharpening stone, which obviously I didn't do my research. As a body repair guy I only know a little bit about grits etc. That is all I knew. I will not use the Chinese stone, I will send it back, get refunded, wow not much, money is money. I don't have the sharpening stone now so I can't post a pic which b&b likes. I think it would make more sense in getting the tools that are suggested to me ( which is going to cost a pretty penny ) this is what will keep me happy! I am not the decision maker in my own home, it has to go both ways here! Girlfriend and then some, that's women for you in my opinion, sorry if I'm being myself with the way I think! I am happy with my shavette for now, does a great shave! PS. I am a hybrid I like de razor shaving as well as straight shaving! I never knew straight shaving could be so good, for me it is!

The Method is a pretty darn cheap way to get started. Assuming a previously shave ready razor with no damage to the edge, all you need is 1u lapping film, which you will lay on a 3/4" x 3" x 12" piece of acrylic from TAP Plastics. Then you need a 36" x 3" x 1/4" piece of balsa to cut into thirds, each piece getting glued to another piece of acrylic, then lapped on sandpaper on a flat countertop and then treated with a very small amount of diamond paste. One gets .5u, one gets .25u, and one gets .1u. All this for the price of just a good finishing stone. For daily maintenance you just use the .1u balsa. Later you can get more grits of lapping film so that you can rescue old razors or set the bevel on brand new ones, and you use the same piece of acrylic for all grits of film. It is held on by water suction. So not only is this the way to get what IMNSHO is the best edge, but it is also the easiest and quickest to learn well enough to get maximum results, AND it is dirt cheap. If you can read and follow detailed instructions, you should have an astonishingly sharp and pretty darn comfortable edge on your first or second attempt. You CAN spend a pile of cash for your honing equipment, and enjoy using it, and get a pretty good edge eventually. Or you can spend less, learn quicker, and get a better edge early on.

The 3k/8k would be good for keeping your pocketknife crazy sharp, or for finer kitchen knives. If you lap it well and often, it could temporarily serve as your midrange. So if they won't take it back, no biggie. You will still find a use for it.

I would counsel against a kamisori for your first straight razor. Nothing against them... they are really cool and can give you a darn good shave, but a regular folding western style razor is easier to learn on. If you want Japanese, you are still in luck, because a lot of very good western style razors are made in Japan. Tanifuji comes to mind, for one brand. Maybe get a kamisori or two on down the line, after you have two or three westerns.

Be sure to tell SWMBO that you will treat her legs to a straight shave. That might loosen up the budget a bit.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Lol, gotcha, sometimes that is how I get my way! Earlier in this thread I'm not sure who, I forget, maybe alex1921 don't quote me on that though said he uses 1,3,5,8 sharpening tools finished with a 12, I really like that idea! I am not sure if he uses Japanese can't remember, anyway it's going to cost me a lot of money at what I'm looking at! I also see what brands shavearmory uses on his Japanese straights very expensive and yet very professional. If I'm going to go for it, I want to do it in a professional manor. I would not even consider buying a razor until I get the tools first for honing/stropping. Very tempting though!

Why do you want Japanese hones?

Not saying you shouldn't buy those but why? Are you thinking of Japanese water stones or Japanese natural stones (called jnats around here usually)?

It is not so easy to understand exactly what tools are actually needed and finding the right ones is not all that simple.

You may or may not understand enough to actually answer this question in a way which will not give you fits of laughter six months from now, but I'll ask it anyway.

How many honing stones do you want to end up owning and using?

There are no right or wrong answers to the question but answering it will be helpful to anyone trying to help you figure it out. The answer could be anywhere from zero to infinity and not be wrong. That might not make any sense to you but it is true.

Strops?

Turning from hones here to strops which are the most necessary tool, most people suggest not buying your ultimate strop right away because you're likely to ruin one learning to strop. Still, getting a decent strop from the beginning is a good idea I think (and decent can still be a pretty cheap strop, but do your homework and ask questions about the strop).

You can do without a hone, but not without a strop.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Steve1981]

The Method is a pretty darn cheap way to get started. Assuming a previously shave ready razor with no damage to the edge, all you need is 1u lapping film, which you will lay on a 3/4" x 3" x 12" piece of acrylic from TAP Plastics. Then you need a 36" x 3" x 1/4" piece of balsa to cut into thirds, each piece getting glued to another piece of acrylic, then lapped on sandpaper on a flat countertop and then treated with a very small amount of diamond paste. One gets .5u, one gets .25u, and one gets .1u. All this for the price of just a good finishing stone. For daily maintenance you just use the .1u balsa. Later you can get more grits of lapping film so that you can rescue old razors or set the bevel on brand new ones, and you use the same piece of acrylic for all grits of film. It is held on by water suction. So not only is this the way to get what IMNSHO is the best edge, but it is also the easiest and quickest to learn well enough to get maximum results, AND it is dirt cheap. If you can read and follow detailed instructions, you should have an astonishingly sharp and pretty darn comfortable edge on your first or second attempt. You CAN spend a pile of cash for your honing equipment, and enjoy using it, and get a pretty good edge eventually. Or you can spend less, learn quicker, and get a better edge early on.

The 3k/8k would be good for keeping your pocketknife crazy sharp, or for finer kitchen knives. If you lap it well and often, it could temporarily serve as your midrange. So if they won't take it back, no biggie. You will still find a use for it.

I would counsel against a kamisori for your first straight razor. Nothing against them... they are really cool and can give you a darn good shave, but a regular folding western style razor is easier to learn on. If you want Japanese, you are still in luck, because a lot of very good western style razors are made in Japan. Tanifuji comes to mind, for one brand. Maybe get a kamisori or two on down the line, after you have two or three westerns.

Be sure to tell SWMBO that you will treat her legs to a straight shave. That might loosen up the budget a bit.

Lol, thanks. As well as the other very important information.

 

[Steve1981]

Why do you want Japanese hones?

Not saying you shouldn't buy those but why? Are you thinking of Japanese water stones or Japanese natural stones (called jnats around here usually)?

It is not so easy to understand exactly what tools are actually needed and finding the right ones is not all that simple.

You may or may not understand enough to actually answer this question in a way which will not give you fits of laughter six months from now, but I'll ask it anyway.

How many honing stones do you want to end up owning and using?

There are no right or wrong answers to the question but answering it will be helpful to anyone trying to help you figure it out. The answer could be anywhere from zero to infinity and not be wrong. That might not make any sense to you but it is true.

Strops?

Turning from hones here to strops which are the most necessary tool, most people suggest not buying your ultimate strop right away because you're likely to ruin one learning to strop. Still, getting a decent strop from the beginning is a good idea I think (and decent can still be a pretty cheap strop, but do your homework and ask questions about the strop).

You can do without a hone, but not without a strop.

Happy shaves,

Jim

6 stones. As for stropping, that is on my to get list as well, and I agree it's the most important to use prior to each shave. A must. I am thinking in my mind acquiring all 6 stones and a strop before getting a ( Shave Ready ) blade. As of the honing stone on its way, I would not use it for my kitchen knives I don't think, good idea of course if I could not get a refund. But we are talking still $60!

 

[Twelvefret]

6 stones. As for stropping, that is on my to get list as well, and I agree it's the most important to use prior to each shave. A must. I am thinking in my mind acquiring all 6 stones and a strop before getting a ( Shave Ready ) blade. As of the honing stone on its way, I would not use it for my kitchen knives I don't think, good idea of course if I could not get a refund. But we are talking still $60!

Then of course just having the stones does not guarantee the razor will shave. Its common to read new users getting frustrated.

3m films are more consistent and the progression reliable if you follow the well worn method path.

Films will cost you $25, marble tile $4

I got a used Illinois horse hide and linen two piece for $25.

So for $50 you can consistently hone old, used and abused $10 eBay razors and shave with them.

In the end, it’s your money and time .

 

[MO1]

If your chinese 3/8k combo works, then it could be used as a midrange stone, as slash mccoy said.
As for slash mccoys method, it is a very cheap method to take a razor to bevel set then to its full potential, should not be taken lightly.

But if you have stones on the way, make sure you have something to keep them perfectly flat.
If you have money to spend i reccommend the atomas, maybe a 400. thats what i got, with a 1200 atoma sheet on its backside (for slurry making and heavy work, they dont dish out on you, ideal for heavy work imo)

Alot of us, including me love to try different edges, hence natural stones, as they cut metal differently and leave a different finish and feel.
Natural stones are for the most part also very flexible, as you can get through different stages with slurry.

A strop is a must, but go for a cheap one, as most of us nicked our first strops, including me. once you got the motion and muscle memory down, then it should be no problem.