Recently I've been looking into getting a honing system to sharpen my own razors. My main problem is the more I read the more confused I become. All my razors Have been honed on a progression of naniwa stones. They shave great and are very comfortable. I know I like the edge off those stones but since I've never used anything else I dont really have a comparison. After watching videos and reading all the great posts here about coticules though I think thats the way I want to go. I have read that they produce a much different edge though. Is that true and if so how much different are we talking? I've been looking at both the new coticules from the anderres(?) and browsing around the bay and anywhere else I can find for vintage coticules. I know how different they can be as far as hardness and how slow/fast they work. Maybe I'm making a mistake wanting to jump into coticule honing at first but it just seems to have more swag... What you guys think?
honing help
- Thread starter deezyrocks
- Start date
I havent used films so YMMV, but...
Coticules take a bit more practice than, say, Naniwa SS hones. Films seem to be pretty simple, and are cheap. I find it harder to get a keen edge off a coticule vs the rub and go of a synthetic, but in your learning stages you can take the edge for a few laps of a finishing abrasive to soup up the coticule edge per se.
In the end, Honing is a journey, IMO, and you will eventually find a progression and process that works for you. It may end up involving a synthetic, a coticule, a Jnat, or even all three. You do need to start somewhere tho, and I can't think of a better start than a coticule.
Coticules take a bit more practice than, say, Naniwa SS hones. Films seem to be pretty simple, and are cheap. I find it harder to get a keen edge off a coticule vs the rub and go of a synthetic, but in your learning stages you can take the edge for a few laps of a finishing abrasive to soup up the coticule edge per se.
In the end, Honing is a journey, IMO, and you will eventually find a progression and process that works for you. It may end up involving a synthetic, a coticule, a Jnat, or even all three. You do need to start somewhere tho, and I can't think of a better start than a coticule.
The best start for anyone I think is synthetics. Synthetic whetstones are an exact science, natural stones vary from stone to stone and take more time to figure out how they work best. Natural stones is more of a journey in chasing the perfect edge (least for me). With synthetics you know exactly what you are getting and you can get help easily because of that fact. Now after you know exactly what you're doing to an edge while honing, that is the point in which I think is best to try naturals. Either way you will get the job done, and remember for razor honing being a science it's still a large percentage opinion and theory. So take your next step in the direction you feel best, either choice I'm sure you'll be happy with.
Get a hard surface coticule..combos are nice..I use both sides with a few drops of oil..no slurry stone needed!... I had the Norton 225/1k/4k /8k with lapping stone and Naniwa 12k finisher...I didn't like them at all..DMT1200 Diamond Plate and my combo coti n oil..is all I use for my razors
GL
GL
If you like the edges off of Naniwas, why not start with them? You know how the edge they produce feels and they are very easy to use.
One word of advice: always be sure the bevel is well set. If it doesn't convincingly pass the TNT, then it will not shave well. Period. I like the 12" DMT 1.2K for setting bevels. Others swear by a Chosera.
One word of advice: always be sure the bevel is well set. If it doesn't convincingly pass the TNT, then it will not shave well. Period. I like the 12" DMT 1.2K for setting bevels. Others swear by a Chosera.
If you want to try a coticule edge for comparison, I'm glad to hone one of your razors for you. PM me if you're interested.
If you like the edges off the Nanis, than in your place, I would buy a set of those. They are very good feeling stones, are easy to learn, and give great edges. Cotis seem like magical stones, but they really aren't. You will save a lot of time, frustration, and money if you go with the nanis. If you want to go the coti route, thats okay, but be prepared for some learning time, and a lot of bought cotis 
Looking back, I actually think dilucot may be easier to learn on than a synth progression. When I use a spray bottle on mist and a decent sized stone I can dilucot almost thoughtlessly these days. Synths on the other hand require juggling, leveling (not the ones I use, but the ones a new honer would buy do), cleaning, in some cases soaking, and a lot more attention paid to the development of the edge.
The challenges people face with dilucot seems to be thinning the slurry too much between stages, rushing stages or just starting with too thin a slurry to begin with. On synths it seems to mostly be rushing stages.
Dilucot has more variables, but unless you've got an 8+ stone synth setup, dilucot stages are smaller so rushing stages is less of an issue (if I dilute a little to soon once, unless I'm overdiluting, a little extra time before the following dilution will fix it) unless you consistently rush several stages in a row. If you make a small amount of mistakes I think dilucot is easy to correct these in. If you make a large number of mistakes or a few extreme mistakes (Two passes on 8k after my 1k is enough, right?) then I think you'll catch on with synths faster.
I still use both. But there's no question that dilucot requires less attention paid while honing than my synths do. That suggests an ease of use that many overlook under the assumption that Synths must be easier to use because they are more consistent.
The challenges people face with dilucot seems to be thinning the slurry too much between stages, rushing stages or just starting with too thin a slurry to begin with. On synths it seems to mostly be rushing stages.
Dilucot has more variables, but unless you've got an 8+ stone synth setup, dilucot stages are smaller so rushing stages is less of an issue (if I dilute a little to soon once, unless I'm overdiluting, a little extra time before the following dilution will fix it) unless you consistently rush several stages in a row. If you make a small amount of mistakes I think dilucot is easy to correct these in. If you make a large number of mistakes or a few extreme mistakes (Two passes on 8k after my 1k is enough, right?) then I think you'll catch on with synths faster.
I still use both. But there's no question that dilucot requires less attention paid while honing than my synths do. That suggests an ease of use that many overlook under the assumption that Synths must be easier to use because they are more consistent.
if i was starting all over again knowing my tastes now... i would get a hard coticule with slurry stone and a c12k and if needed 4 repairs or bevel setting a lower grit hone 600 to 1000 grit. but that's just me.
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks for all the advice guys. Greatly appreciated. When I get something ordered here soon I'll post pics.
I would take David up on his offer to try out a coticule edge-his are amongs the best.
Coticules are not that hard to learn and give great smooth edges.
I have a set of naniwas that are very nice and easy to use, sadly I don't like the feel off them.
please excuse my ignorance here, what is TNT?
awesome man!
that's what I was looking for. very informative.
I cruised through the wiki for a couple minutes and didnt find anything
that's what I was looking for. very informative.
I cruised through the wiki for a couple minutes and didnt find anything
If you like the edge off a specific stone, I would suggest going that way. If you want to try a different thing (such as a Natural Japanese stone, Coticule even maybe a barber hone), I would suggest contacting someone who hone a lot. They usually have a lot of different stones so they could probably give you something different. If you buy a shave ready straight off BST, ask how it was honed. General rule of thumb, there won't be 2 sets of stones that are identical used by 2 different people. I mean, some use the same stones yes, but usually, it's a custom build set.
The other side is that your straights are shave ready, when you will hone them, you won't go back to a bevel reset. I got here a diamond plate to lap my Japanese Natural stone and that's it. That's how I maintain my edges. I am not interested in honing a straight from start to finish. I like to be able to maintain the edge and if I have a huge issue, I will contact someone who can do it for me. So, depending on what you want to do, it will depends how much you will need to invest to get stones.
Don't forget, YMMV!
The other side is that your straights are shave ready, when you will hone them, you won't go back to a bevel reset. I got here a diamond plate to lap my Japanese Natural stone and that's it. That's how I maintain my edges. I am not interested in honing a straight from start to finish. I like to be able to maintain the edge and if I have a huge issue, I will contact someone who can do it for me. So, depending on what you want to do, it will depends how much you will need to invest to get stones.
Don't forget, YMMV!
