Hone selection advice, Belgian Coticule combo vs Norton8/4k

[kozak]

I am looking to get into honing and am looking for some advice

I got a NATURAL COMBO COTICULE (BLUE AND YELLOW) as a gift and the description states:

The Yellow coticule is an extremely versatile and efficient sharpening stone. Can be used wet, dry or wet with a slurry. The normal grit of the stone used without a slurry is 8000 grit. When used with a slurry, the grit drops to about 6000

and

The Blue coticule is a natural sharpening stone with a grit of 4000, making ideal for re-sharpening a dull blade

Does this mean that I can skip on buying a Norton 4/8k combo?

 

[gary haywood]

I have bbw and yellow that is all you will need for keep your razors shave ready i also have 4k and 8k plus 1k if you need to set a bevel i'd recomend the dmt 1200. the nortons are realy andy and are quiker cutters but the results from belgiums create a much smoother shaver i realy prefer them my self. the blue cuts slower than yellow .

 

[kozak]

I have bbw and yellow that is all you will need for keep your razors shave ready i also have 4k and 8k plus 1k if you need to set a bevel i'd recomend the dmt 1200. the nortons are realy andy and are quiker cutters but the results from belgiums create a much smoother shaver i realy prefer them my self. the blue cuts slower than yellow .

Thanks for the response.
Based on your comments and after watching THESE videos I think that I will start with a Norton 1k/4k stone. I could not find a place where I could get the DMT locally and will definately try it in the future, but I can get the Norton stone locally at a reasonable price. I think that that is going to be a good starter setup.

 

[gary haywood]

I use 1k for setting my bevels on razors that need it i did'nt no about the dmt then but if i had i think i'd of preferd it as you don't have to lap it and the water stays rather than keep evapourating like it does on the pouros 1k. I also watched those videos and i always do that progression and i have good shaving razors every time it realy works if your bevel is set after that you carn't go wrong. you will need 8k as well if its just for maintaining razors just get 4k 8k combo i did and when i got a realy blunt razor which some one gave me i then got a 1k but you can set a bevel on 4k it just takes a lot longer thats if you have the patience. once you have got along with your nortons if your like me you will be tempted to get the blue and yellow these two will maintain your razors and i find them easier to use i realy only use these for maintance now days but if i feel i need a bit sharper i go 10 4k 20 8k and then bbw 50 to 75 and 75 to 100 plain water just like the videos you carn't over hone with belgiums .I also have pasted paddle but i find belgiums leave a realy smooth edge and don't feel the need for pasted paddle although i do somtimes finish with red dovo paste as invisable edge recomende and says he always finishes on red dovo paste and it seems to do no harm.

 

[jinenjo]

I think that that is going to be a good starter setup.

Just wondering how that's been working for you, comrade?

I picked a Belgian combo on eBay for a decent price, and I've was wondering the same exact question. Belgian vs. Norton?

I understand how the magical qualities in a coticule can allow for it to be used as a finishing stone, but I don't quite get why a set of passes on a Norton 8K then should be followed by Chinese 12K or pasted paddle, etc.

 

[Thebigspendur]

As a practical matter the Coticule when used wet behaves more like a 10-12K stone than an 8K and puts a finer edge on a razor than the Norton. The Belgian Blue acts more like a 6K but is a very slow cutter. The Norton 4K/8K is a good all around stone and can be used for restoration and final polish. You should be able to get a very good shaving edge off it.

 

[Disburden]

I don't think you can really compare the BBW and coticule to the norton stones, they're completely different cutters even though websites compare grits. I find it impossible to give a grit size off the coticule since it is very diverse for honing.

From what I found the BBW with a light slurry can resharpen an edge but not set a bevel, keep this in mind.

Some yellow coticules, although supposedly higher in "grit" can set a bevel if you use with slurry and then slowly dilute to just water once ou do 50 passes with the slurry cutting the metal. Some coticules can NOT do this since they're very slow cutters, some are very fast cutters, etc. You can use a yellow coticule with just water to smooth your razor's edge if it feels too sharp on your face, or it can be used to be back some sharpness to an edge, also depends on your stone.

You can fine many threads at straightrazorplace.com on Coticules by Bart who is the master of coticules, imo. He has a very fast one and likes to use it for almost everything a razor needs, including setting bevels. I would recommend using a DMT1200 for bevels though.

Bart's progression for honing on a coticule is this:

DMT1200 for the initial bevel if needed
Yellow coticule with slurry to set a bevel or edge (diluting slurry over time)
Then move to the BBW with slurry to sharpen the edge (Same as above)
Then go back to the coticule with water for the finishing phase.

Keep in mind all coticules are different and yours may not be able to achieve this. You can not over hone in a coticule or BBW but you can on a norton BIG TIME. So be careful if you get a Norton.

 

[jinenjo]

I don't think you can really compare the BBW and coticule to the norton stones, they're completely different cutters even though websites compare grits. I find it impossible to give a grit size off the coticule since it is very diverse for honing....

Very, very helpful post, kind sir. MANY THANKS!

 

[Brodirt]

How about for maintenance of already sharp razors?

I recently ordered a Chinese 12k (and paper for lapping...i have a very nice piece of granite left over from my countertops that will be perfect for the job). I was hoping that the 12k would be enough for maintenance and might even add to an edge previously sharpened with an 8k?

Am I painfully mis-guided? Do I need an 4k/8k or individual stone if I dont plan on doing resto work, just maintenance?

 

[mkevenson]

How about for maintenance of already sharp razors?

I recently ordered a Chinese 12k (and paper for lapping...i have a very nice piece of granite left over from my countertops that will be perfect for the job). I was hoping that the 12k would be enough for maintenance and might even add to an edge previously sharpened with an 8k?

Am I painfully mis-guided? Do I need an 4k/8k or individual stone if I dont plan on doing resto work, just maintenance?

I use my Chinese 12k or my Barbers hone for maint. You will be fine if you do not want or need to do resto work. Some blades also benefit from .5 cr ox which can cheaply be put on balsa.

 

[jinenjo]

I would recommend using a DMT1200 for bevels though.

A bit off topic. The 8" DMT 1200 at a local store is upwards of $50 (worth it I'm sure), but the smaller size (I forget what, exactly) goes for $27. An X pattern would likely be needed for most razors, but would buying the smaller size be a bad idea?

 

[Disburden]

How about for maintenance of already sharp razors?

I recently ordered a Chinese 12k (and paper for lapping...i have a very nice piece of granite left over from my countertops that will be perfect for the job). I was hoping that the 12k would be enough for maintenance and might even add to an edge previously sharpened with an 8k?

Am I painfully mis-guided? Do I need an 4k/8k or individual stone if I dont plan on doing resto work, just maintenance?

I do the following:

Belgian blue stone with slurry. Do about 50-60 laps for hollow razors. I do about 20 more for my wedge.
I then slowly dilute the slurry until it is just water while doing about 50 more passes.
I think use the coticule with water for about 100 passes.

Sometimes I go to a pasted strop with Cromiun Oxide. Usually I don't need it though. For the shave I strop 40 on linen and about 80 on leather.

I really want a Swaty Barber hone just because it takes four-ten passes or so to touch up a blade where BBW and coticule can take a half hour.

 

[chess1]

A bit off topic. The 8" DMT 1200 at a local store is upwards of $50 (worth it I'm sure), but the smaller size (I forget what, exactly) goes for $27. An X pattern would likely be needed for most razors, but would buying the smaller size be a bad idea?

No it is great idea.
it lighter you can keep inside your hand use x pattern and you are ready to next level after 3-5 minutes.