Use a longer handle, and keep it the same length as planned, or shorter?
Heat Treating, Forging, Etc.
- Thread starter bluesman 7
- Start date
Good anvils are really hard to find here now. I have a Peter Wright and a Mousehole forge. It took years to find them. We saw a ~150 lb Peter Wright at a sale a while back for 1200 and when we came back around it was gone. Crazy.
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- #43
The 7" was the blade length, I will end up with a 5" blade length. I'll be cutting the extra tang length down to match.
It was about 15 years ago, but I got like a 245lb anvil shipped from Czechoslovacia for 350.00 or so.
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- #45
I cut down the san mai cleaver and continued thinning the blade. I ran into another welding flaw on the other side of the blade, but the grinding is cleaning it up pretty well. I think I will get some cool figuring on that side where the core is unevenly exposed.
I wanted to write some of my thoughts while they are still fresh in my mind.
The first is that all of the welding flaws were in the inboard half of the billet. This is the side that I welded first, taking another heat to do the second half. I think that the second half welded better because there was more time for the heat to get into the center of the billet. I will try to do a longer soak before the first weld next time.
I didn't have too much of a problem finding and exposing the core at the cutting edge, but I feel like I may have just been lucky
Trying to draw a 3/4" x 1" x 5" billet into a 3" x 6" cleaver is too hard, so the next time I try this I will try upsetting the billet to 4" before drawing out the width. The upsetting should expose any problems in the weld much sooner in the process saving a lot of work if there are problems.
Using a 1/4" x 1" x 5" piece of 1095 along with two pieces of A36 is a ridiculous way of making a large cleaver, but it does really test a lot of smithing skills. I can hardly wait to try it again
. I will need to make another set of tongs first that are able to hold the billet while I'm upsetting.
I wanted to write some of my thoughts while they are still fresh in my mind.
The first is that all of the welding flaws were in the inboard half of the billet. This is the side that I welded first, taking another heat to do the second half. I think that the second half welded better because there was more time for the heat to get into the center of the billet. I will try to do a longer soak before the first weld next time.
I didn't have too much of a problem finding and exposing the core at the cutting edge, but I feel like I may have just been lucky
Trying to draw a 3/4" x 1" x 5" billet into a 3" x 6" cleaver is too hard, so the next time I try this I will try upsetting the billet to 4" before drawing out the width. The upsetting should expose any problems in the weld much sooner in the process saving a lot of work if there are problems.
Using a 1/4" x 1" x 5" piece of 1095 along with two pieces of A36 is a ridiculous way of making a large cleaver, but it does really test a lot of smithing skills. I can hardly wait to try it again
. I will need to make another set of tongs first that are able to hold the billet while I'm upsetting.- Thread starter
- #46
That would certainly be a great deal today. I paid $50 for mine 40 years ago and felt like I got a good deal even though it was in pretty rough shape. It had badly broken down edges and a very pitted surface.
I was thinking the same thing, Larry.
I think I'm going to get started on the right path. I was at my dad's today and asked if he had any scrap plate lying around. Well I now have access to a good number of pieces of 3/8 inch steel plate and maybe even a box of fire brick! (if he can find it...)
I'm looking at the 55 pound anvil from grizzly tools. I think it's the same one in harbor freight, but I can actually have it shipped to the house from grizzly cheaper than I can buy it through harbor freight. Plus it's a 4 hour round trip to HF.
Still keeping an ear out for a better one if I can find one I can afford. I've heard the one I'm looking at is a little on the softer side. It's still better than the one I currently don't have however haha.
Belt sander is going to be the big thing. I might try and make due with one of those 4X36 table top belt/disk ones or something for now. $70 and will get me started at least.
Hand tools should be no biggie. I have lot's of hammers and all that crap. And if I can convince him to let me have them, my dad still has all of my great grandfathers smithing tongs.
I'm looking at the 55 pound anvil from grizzly tools. I think it's the same one in harbor freight, but I can actually have it shipped to the house from grizzly cheaper than I can buy it through harbor freight. Plus it's a 4 hour round trip to HF.
Still keeping an ear out for a better one if I can find one I can afford. I've heard the one I'm looking at is a little on the softer side. It's still better than the one I currently don't have however haha.
Belt sander is going to be the big thing. I might try and make due with one of those 4X36 table top belt/disk ones or something for now. $70 and will get me started at least.
Hand tools should be no biggie. I have lot's of hammers and all that crap. And if I can convince him to let me have them, my dad still has all of my great grandfathers smithing tongs.
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- #49
I would put off buying the Grizzly anvil until the last minute after you have your forge set up. Just to give the planets time to align and the right anvil to find its way to you.
I would think that your father would love the idea of you putting his fathers tongs to use. I'm finding making tongs to be fun and I've learned a lot about moving metal by making them.
I have one of those 4X36 belt sanders that I re pullied to slow it down a bit. You can do a lot with them and I still use mine quite a lot even though I have a 2X72
I would think that your father would love the idea of you putting his fathers tongs to use. I'm finding making tongs to be fun and I've learned a lot about moving metal by making them.
I have one of those 4X36 belt sanders that I re pullied to slow it down a bit. You can do a lot with them and I still use mine quite a lot even though I have a 2X72
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Yeah, the anvil will be the last thing I get. I really would like to find a better one if funds allow. I have a friend that I work with who knows probably 1/2 a million people in the trades on the lookout as well.
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- #51
Just got back from a 4 day 'Hammer in". It was mostly geared towards getting people who had never forged before to start pounding iron. There were 14 forges going on Saturday (11 on Thur. and Fri.) All but 2 were burning coal. I had a blast. I got re acquainted with coal, made a damascus billet from a piece of cable, and did my first successful jump weld using the drop tong technique. This last weld took about 6 tries on two separate days. I did all of this on coal.
Very cool! Sounds like a great time!
I have a piece of railroad rail coming probably this week that was my grandfathers on my moms side. Will get me started at least and I can keep looking for a good anvil.
I have the steel plate for the forge body, and maybe some fire brick as well. If not I can grab some at tractor supply.
I have been looking at plans for the burner. I think I'm just going to get some pieces of pipe and connectors and build one for my old grill tank instead of messing around with torches and stuff. Just do it right the first time. I saw one using a mig tip in the top cup to help direct the gas. I think that's the way I'm going to go.
No go on my great grandfathers tongs. But I may have a place locally to grab a pair or two.
Hopefully in a few weeks I can actually light a fire!
What's a good quench oil for just basic junk steel? Like leaf springs and stuff. Also, what's a good source for flux in case I get ahold of some cable or something and try to be adventurous?
There is a ton I can ask about your post Vic, but let me start here, please. What is the significance of forging on coal? Thanks, in advance.
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- #54
A lot of people use canola. I heat it to 150F (watch the flash point) for razors and knives and have used it at room temp for less important stuff.
I've been doing all of my welding with plain old '20 Mule Team Borax' with good results, and you'll never beat the price and availability. There are easier fluxes to use, but a lot of them have iron filings in them. Some damascus makers do not want the iron filings 'contaminating' their billets. There is also anhydrous borax. I think I'm going to stick with 20 mule team for a while and hopefully graduate to flux less welding.
Awesome. I was hoping it would be something relatively inexpensive. Thanks!
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- #56
Well it adds a whole fire management skill to the picture. The coal is a coking coal. Coke is to coal, as charcoal is to wood. The green coal has a lot of volatile contaminants that you should try to keep away from your steel, sulfur being among the worst. A proper fire has a coke center, where you do all of your heating of the steel, surrounded by green coal that is turning to coke around the outside. As you are burning the fuel, you can keep this coke center arrangement by pulling the fuel in from the sides without introducing coal to the center. There is also clinker to deal with. Clinker is a glass like contaminant that still exists in the coke. Over time, depending on the mineral contamination of the coal, clinker builds in the bottom of the fire. It is said that you can not weld with clinker in your fire.
I'm certainly not saying that coal is superior to propane, though some would.
The atmosphere of the meet was very 19th century. There was no electricity being used at the forges. There were hand cranked blowers and bellows supplying air to the forges and hand cranked and treadle powered grind stones and drill presses. The two propane forges seemed very out of place.
I have no intention of switching to coal, although it does appear to be more economical than propane, but I did enjoy finding out that it was a viable and very workable fuel. I found the whole thing rather fun. I may even resurrect my old coal forge, just to take to this meet. This was the 28th annual Jim Seery Memorial Hammer In. http://www.hammerin.info/
Sounds fantastic, and I'm quite jealous. I've been wanting to do something like this for quite a while.
I always thought the go to was used motor oil. Although that might be more for bluing.
I've read where it can be used. My worry would be that modern car oils have so many detergents and synthetics in them that they may not work well. But I am very new to it, so I could be wrong.
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- #60
The canola oil smells like fast food when you quench in it. Used motor oil smells terrible. I think the attraction to used motor oil is that it is free, while canola is only cheap.
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