These are some seriously good looking hones!
Glanrafon Welsh Hone
- Thread starter timwcic
- Start date
Interesting... I've made that comparison before somewhere here. Good to know my impressions of things are on the money.
So I tried my Glanrafon again on a razor last night, along with a Llyn Nantlle, the bottom two stones in the picture below. I wasn't actually intending on using the LN, but it was late and I was struggling to get a really good edge on the GR, and thought I might as well compare them side by side.
Here are some random thoughts...
The Glanrafon has the most peculiar feedback for a fine stone when used with a SR - even completely clean and unslurried the stone feels slightly gritty. But it's not quite that it's gritty in a coarsely abrasive sandstone-type way, it's slightly different, nevertheless the stone feels like it should be much coarser than it actually is. This aspect it far less noticeable when using on a knife, with some more pressure.
The Nantlle is very different, moreso than I remember it being. It feels like a very hard, fine stone - a bit like a Thuri might feel if it was way harder. But it errs on being a little a 'dead'. I prefer the GR feel, even if it's weird, in fact I rather like the GR feel. Used next to each other on a razor, there's actually no way you could mistake the stones for one another.
Both of them are very hard and slow, I don't think I could say one was marginally faster than the other - they're both just pretty slow. That's not something I particularly mind though. Following some of @rideon66 's advice on using Charnleys and GRs I now play around with different slurry stones on pretty much every finishing stone, with the exception of Arks and Thuris. I'd never really done this kind of thing before starting using SRs, and it's very easy to speed up a slow stone to fast, dilute the slurry down and finish clean. And it really does work a treat to create the effect of small a progression on one stone.
The stones are very similar in terms of 'grit', but the Glanrafon is a little coarser, the Nantlle stone is very fine. You can see this difference under a scope too. I struggled yesterday to get a really good edge off the GR, and it was noticeably improved by the LN. This I'm sure is down to user incompetence / I have used the LN more and know it better. It's also the only GR I've ever had or used, so don't know how they vary - I imagine the grit ranges of different examples of each type would overlap.
So based merely on a sample size of two... I think my Glarafon would have taken a little more patience or expertise to coax a seriously good SR edge out of it than the Llyn Nantlle, though I prefer its feel. The two are though are quite alike in terms of results, which is unsurprising considering how close they are geographically. I'm just looking for very small differences, the biggest properly noticeable one is the feedback.
---
FWIW - neither of these stones works very well on knives; you need a heavy atoma slurry to get anywhere at all. Of those two examples the Glanrafon is very slightly better, because it's very slightly coarser - the Llyn Nantlle is next to useless. Though I wouldn't advise either.
I only tried it once, but with a thick slurry the Glanrafon stone does not polish/burnish jigane cladding. It would be an insanely difficult stone to use for polishing, but it possibly could be done.
---
Take all the razor stuff with a fistful of salt obviously! I'm nothing like as experienced or good as most people here, so would be interested to hear yours and @Legion 's thoughts on the GR too. Next time I try it I'll go with Tam or Thuri slurry as Tom suggested above, this time I was using Coticule.
Also like a CF stone the Glanrafon benefits with many laps and using something like the slurries mentioned or Glycerin and water or even oil will benefit the final edge. Basically being an oil stone mimicking the viscosity of a oil will help the final outcome. The length of a stone like this just like an Ark helps too. Longer stone less laps needed. My bigger one is 10" so I use it mostly. The smaller is used for quick touch ups or just trying new things. How many laps would you guess you are doing on the stone? These are much like a CF or Ark in lap counts for finishing. I would guess I am in the 100-200 lap range usually. I don't really count though and stop periodically to check as I go. So maybe do something in the range of 50 or so stop check might even strop or hand strop and check then continue till it feels like where I want it.
Yeah it's possible I just ran out of patience with the GR last night - I'm sure I'll get a better idea of it with more use. Mine's an 8x2 ish, so big enough. And I do in general prefer honing on decent size stones, so that's nice!
In terms of total laps I would guess around 200, including the ones with coticule slurry. Clean laps: maybe 75.
You need to be careful with coticule slurry, because if you are using it with a razor that is close to shave ready it can easily send the edge backwards. Yes, it will cut faster, but at the same time have a dulling effect. So what might have been done with 50 laps just water, may now take 100.
Yeah I've noticed this, though I tend to gradually dilute as I go. In theory you actually want any type of added slurry to have a speeding but dulling effect though, in comparison to the finishing stone. Mikawa Nagura, even Koma, are coarser stones than a finishing jnat. So you work up to a tomo nagura and clean.
Though as you say - what you use, and to what extent you slurry it, obviously depends on how close to s-r the edge is to begin with.
I only have one Charnley and it's in a different class of sharp when compared to my Glanrafon. With just one Charnley and the reported variation in them I can't make a fair comparison in the edges. Both of my stones are hard and slow, very slow.
Like the coticules I have to bring my A game to get edges sharp enough to satisfy me off my Glanrafon. I have only used it with water or soap and water so maybe I will experiment some with oil and see if I don't get a bump in sharp or speed.
Like the coticules I have to bring my A game to get edges sharp enough to satisfy me off my Glanrafon. I have only used it with water or soap and water so maybe I will experiment some with oil and see if I don't get a bump in sharp or speed.
So I just tried mine out, and did a touch up on my regular, go-to razor. 60x laps with water.
I must say, I'm rather pleased. Especially since I usually prefer slate hones with oil. Sharpness was good. Doesn't have that "can't cut you" feeling I get from my favourite finishers, but with oil that may come. Shave was nice and close.
If I compare it to a Silkstone, which is the favourite slate I have been using lately, I would say the Glanrafon is slightly better with water, and to be decided with oil, which is what I will test next time.
I just shaved off the Glanrafon with oil...
I shall have to try! Have you settled on a favourite oil for razor hones yet after your experimentations? The mineral oil I use for knives is just I think a little too thick for razors - half the time I'm pretty sure the edge isn't actually touching the stone. And trying to apply more pressure or torque feels a little odd on a finisher...
I gave my GR another whirl, this time with white Tam slurry, and did much better in less time. I think probably your previous comment about coticule slurry dulling was spot on, and I just didn't have the patience to follow it up properly.
I'll lend you a LN at some point and you can give us an expert opinion on the two.
I've been using that Diggers paraffin, and its been working fine, but the weather has been hot, so it is pretty fluid. When it gets cold and becomes more viscose things might change.
Oh yeah, that's what I have. I hadn't actually thought about the temp thing, it's a good point. I do most of my razor honing in the evenings, and we live in a particularly cold and wet part of the Hills (honestly it's like the UK).
What did you think of WD40? I sometimes use that for knives, especially at other people's houses, and seems to work ok...
Yeah, it'll work. I'm just not a fan of the smell, or getting it on my skin. Pure mineral oil seems cleaner.
I like WD40, the smell reminds me of my dad.
So I never liked using oil. Mostly cause of mess and smell. I find glycerin with water lets you play with the viscosity to make it as thick or thin as you want by just adding more water or Glycerin. Hand soap is very similar depending on the thickness to begin with.
I keep meaning to get some glycerin actually. I like the idea of being able to easily alter the viscosity according to preference.
One thing I’ve played with is single-phase makeup remover, blend of water, alcohol, glycerine and some other jazz. I tried to avoid anything with salt or acid listed. Totally miscible with alcohol or water, odorless, and fairly cushiony with Arks if undiluted.
Wife's out this evening... I sense a deep-dive into the bathroom cabinet coming on
.Just arrived
And now the back
Didn’t get a chance to use it. I sprayed it with a bit of water and it ran right off, so I went over it with w/d 1.5k. I was surprised how fast I got a light slurry. It feels similar to a thuringian in that it slurries faster than it’s density would lead you to believe. I thought these were more similar to arks, which take forever to slurry, especially with a high grit medium than to thuris . Am I missing something?
And now the back
Didn’t get a chance to use it. I sprayed it with a bit of water and it ran right off, so I went over it with w/d 1.5k. I was surprised how fast I got a light slurry. It feels similar to a thuringian in that it slurries faster than it’s density would lead you to believe. I thought these were more similar to arks, which take forever to slurry, especially with a high grit medium than to thuris . Am I missing something?
