Good clarification and I'll add that Todd, from Science of Sharp, uses metal polish on a denim strop to remove the foil edge, and Murry Carter runs the edge through softwood. I think those are probably better methods if you just want to remove the foil edge, but it seems that jointing is one of those contentious topics. I tend to use chromium oxide on a flax linen strop to do this but I don't know if it actually counts as jointing, but it does accomplish the same goal as far as I can see.
Getting from "popping" to "slicing"
- Thread starter captaincaed
- Start date
Rubbing steel on a rock and then rubbing that steel on skin seems to be an apt summary lol.I normally receive notifications for threads I start and threads I reply to. Check the Watch/Unwatch button at the top.
Piggybacking on what @SliceOfLife said, skin stretching is a must. I will add:
The shaving part is just rubbing steel on skin
- Map your beard so you can control when you shave with, across and against the grain.
- Play with the angle of the blade against your skin to understand when what works best.
- Use a light touch, in general. Try to just remove the lather. You will be surprised at how close the shave is.
.
Yet another:
- Keep your lather wet. Most guys talk about using a wetter slather when using a straight.
- Thread starter
- #24
This is well-put
Yes, and popping and slizing whiskers
Jointing on a stone, cuts the burr off and leaves a straight edge. Wood, felt, glass and stropping on paste are not the same, they may remove a ragged burr, but do not make a straight edge.
Once the edge is straight, you just bring the bevels to meet at an already straight edge.
It’s pretty simple, no need to overthink it.
Once the edge is straight, you just bring the bevels to meet at an already straight edge.
It’s pretty simple, no need to overthink it.
- Thread starter
- #27
In my mind:
- Glass rolls an edge
- Wood tears the burr off, leaves things ragged (can be OK for knives, but not my preference)
- Bare felt/leather aligns a burr and/or gently work hardens/breaks the weakest bits off
- Compound stropping gently abrades the smallest/weakest burr fragments
- Jointing does just what you describe. I‘ve used with knives to good effect.
Balls to delicacy! Cardboard roll is where it's at...
For me it’s been all about practice. Like most people, I had to learn to hone and shave at the same time. Despite this I’ve been getting pretty good shaves since about shave number 30.
The trick for me has been having a rock solid, fool proof, synthetic progression to fall back on. In my case the lapping film and diamond pasted balsa progression. When all else fails that progression always does the trick. If not on the first attempt, definitely on the second. It’s easy, it’s sharp and it’s reliable.
Watching what you’re doing and checking the results is important. A sharpie marked bevel is a great tool to see where you are making contact with the abrasives. Use all the tools you can to check and verify the edge until you get a feel for it. Hanging hairs, tomato cuts, thumb nail tests, magnification and shaving will all tell you something about the edge. Listen to what the tests are telling you.
It’s important to have a reference edge and a fall back progression. My reference is the diamond pasted balsa. That’s what I compare every other finish to. Over the last three years my honing efforts have varied. Some edges have been better than others. Here’s the thing though. I actually got pretty good shaves from all of them. You don’t need the ultimate edge to get a decent shave. As long as it passes a basic HHT and is free of any nasty chips, I’ll give it a run and see what happens. If you pay attention to what works and what doesn’t you’ll keep getting better over time.
The trick for me has been having a rock solid, fool proof, synthetic progression to fall back on. In my case the lapping film and diamond pasted balsa progression. When all else fails that progression always does the trick. If not on the first attempt, definitely on the second. It’s easy, it’s sharp and it’s reliable.
Watching what you’re doing and checking the results is important. A sharpie marked bevel is a great tool to see where you are making contact with the abrasives. Use all the tools you can to check and verify the edge until you get a feel for it. Hanging hairs, tomato cuts, thumb nail tests, magnification and shaving will all tell you something about the edge. Listen to what the tests are telling you.
It’s important to have a reference edge and a fall back progression. My reference is the diamond pasted balsa. That’s what I compare every other finish to. Over the last three years my honing efforts have varied. Some edges have been better than others. Here’s the thing though. I actually got pretty good shaves from all of them. You don’t need the ultimate edge to get a decent shave. As long as it passes a basic HHT and is free of any nasty chips, I’ll give it a run and see what happens. If you pay attention to what works and what doesn’t you’ll keep getting better over time.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
I notice that he doesn't shave with that knifeBalls to delicacy! Cardboard roll is where it's at...
.- Thread starter
- #31
I hope he picks up that challenge
- Thread starter
- #32
I plunked down $35 on a usb microscope today. I purposely did not buy a stone, despite the temptation. I’m going to have a go with the stones I have and know, make observations, go from there.
I have a 2k, 4k, 8k and 10k that should resist dishing well, and I have a good sense of how they behave. Also have some dead-flat arks. If I can’t get a bevel set after a few tries, I may buy the Shapton 1500 or Chosera 1000 that many are keen on.
And shave along the way. The edges I get are definitely comfortable to shave with, I just know I’m still missing “something”.
I have a 2k, 4k, 8k and 10k that should resist dishing well, and I have a good sense of how they behave. Also have some dead-flat arks. If I can’t get a bevel set after a few tries, I may buy the Shapton 1500 or Chosera 1000 that many are keen on.
And shave along the way. The edges I get are definitely comfortable to shave with, I just know I’m still missing “something”.
Good luck
It is nice to have a microscope, but it might be useful to use it in conjunction with a loupe. You will probably end up using only the loupe more when you figure things out.
Most of the edge issues I have had can be traced back to deeper striations from a early stage in the progression. Small chips you are not able to see with a loupe usually alligns with deeper striations. They might not be all that important in terms of shaving performance.
Coticule and Arkansas edges and bevels usually don't look pretty, but can be really good.
I notice that he doesn't shave with that knife
I think that was my test knife in the video, in which case - I have shaved with it a few times.
(Though perhaps not after the cardboard thing! That was more just a jokey / fun way to demonstrate the importance of deburring).
Great investment. Looking at the surfaces of stones with a USB scope is fascinating.
I have tried it a few times, but I have no idea what to look for.
Maybe you could start a thread where you explain a few thing
I have tried it a few times, but I have no idea what to look for.
Maybe you could start a thread where you explain a few thing
Yeah can do. Though I don't have a USB scope atm so will have to buy another. It can be a little tricky to know exactly what you're looking at, but there are some interesting things that pop up, off the top of my head...
My Maruo SS is at least as fine as razor finishing jnats in terms of particle size, and neither are as fine as Thuris.
Charnley Forest stones are very almost as fine as Trans arks, whereas Idwals in general are notably coarser.
Turkish stones are also extremely fine grained.
Washitas and Soft Arks are pretty much indistinguishable.
---
However those things also show the limitations of scope analysis. Because it gives no indication of how hard or friable a stone is, and in the case of Arkansas stones - it's almost impossible to see porosity.
My Maruo finishes lower than my Asagi because it's softer. An Idwal will finish as fine as a Charn because it's harder. Turkish stones are faster and coarser than trans arks because they're more friable. Washitas are more porous than arks which makes them quicker. &c. &c.
- Thread starter
- #38
Still getting the hang of the camera, but here are both sides of the bevel. What do you make of it?
Nice clear photos, try different backgrounds black or white depending on what you are trying to capture, I use a sheat of craft foam, a buck or two at any craft store or Walmart. Also try not to move the scope or lighting from photo to photo.
Looks like you are honing to the edge, though there is some fuzzy edge near the toe and heel. The shiny reflection at both ends of both photos are either a rolled edge or a not fully set bevel.
There are some deep stria that go all the way to the edge and will end in a micro-chip they need to come out.
If you are going to take comparison photographs, compare one grit finish to another, mark the blade from edge to spine with a colored sharpie or pick a defect in the blade, like the long diagonal scratch on the belly near the left side of photo 1.
Then use that mark as a registration mark so you are photographing the same spot each time.
What grit is it finished to?
What does the edge look like, looking straight down on the edge?
Shiny spots are where the bevels are not meeting fully or the edge is rolled.
Looks like you are honing to the edge, though there is some fuzzy edge near the toe and heel. The shiny reflection at both ends of both photos are either a rolled edge or a not fully set bevel.
There are some deep stria that go all the way to the edge and will end in a micro-chip they need to come out.
If you are going to take comparison photographs, compare one grit finish to another, mark the blade from edge to spine with a colored sharpie or pick a defect in the blade, like the long diagonal scratch on the belly near the left side of photo 1.
Then use that mark as a registration mark so you are photographing the same spot each time.
What grit is it finished to?
What does the edge look like, looking straight down on the edge?
Shiny spots are where the bevels are not meeting fully or the edge is rolled.
