From personal experience, how aggressive is the LA Shaving Soap Company’s BBS-1?

[ltjaw]

My reference razors on this poll are the Fatip/Joris, Merkur slant, Weber PH, Merkur 34C, and Muhle R89. I rated the BBS-1 at 5, but now I'm thinking it's really a 4. I keep comparing it to the Weber in my mind. It feels like a milder razor in use, but shaves more efficiently. I think the BBS-1 also requires a very precise shaving angle, something I find more important with mild razors like the Feather AS-D1.

Edit: maybe I'm back and forth on the 4 vs 5 rating because I'd put the Weber PH at 5, but I'm trying to fit to the scale as given.

 

[shawnsel]

My reference razors on this poll are the Fatip/Joris, Merkur slant, Weber PH, Merkur 34C, and Muhle R89. I rated the BBS-1 at 5, but now I'm thinking it's really a 4. I keep comparing it to the Weber in my mind. It feels like a milder razor in use, but shaves more efficiently. I think the BBS-1 also requires a very precise shaving angle, something I find more important with mild razors like the Feather AS-D1.

Edit: maybe I'm back and forth on the 4 vs 5 rating because I'd put the Weber PH at 5, but I'm trying to fit to the scale as given.

The Weber reportedly had some manufacturing variance to it ... I personally suspect that some people own Weber razors that truly are 5's and others own Weber razors that truly are 4's. But the 4 rating is an overall average, and the responses that lead to Weber's ranking seemed consistent enough to include it in this list of reference razors (it is for instance, much less varied that this BBS-1's ranking results

Let me know what you decide on and I'll update your response number before calculating a final average.


Thanks!
Shawn

 

[shawnsel]

I have used every razor on this list and more although I don't agree with the order. My weber is more aggressive then an ATT R1. That is a big difference in the list.

Just following up on this. While the R1 and Weber razors were not directly compared, the Weber was compared with the M1:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...Above-The-Tie-(ATT)-M1-vs-Weber-Polished-Head


Poll Summary of ATT M1 vs. Weber:
4 votes for ATT M1 being more aggressive
5 votes for Weber PH being more aggressive
and 5 votes said they are about equally aggressive


I've read about Weber's manufacturing variances and wavey blades though, and I personally consider it probable that some Weber razors are more aggressive than the ATT R1s ... but these rankings are calculated based on the survey results, and in general the Weber-related survey results are probably consistent enough to be considered as a fair reference razor....

 

[shawnsel]

This poll closes in 7 days. Please cast (or reply with) your final votes. Also, feel free to reply to this thread to any final changes to your vote.

Also I'd love to see more replies explaining why people ranked the razor how they did ... perhaps more explanations could help us to understand the large variance in rankings thus far.


Thanks!
Shawn

 

[valkabit]

I think your choices in the survey are off a bit. I've only got experience with a few of those razors, but I don't think a ATT M2 is any more aggressive that a EJ89. Also a M2 and a M1 would be similiar..

 

[shawnsel]

I think your choices in the survey are off a bit. I've only got experience with a few of those razors, but I don't think a ATT M2 is any more aggressive that a EJ89. Also a M2 and a M1 would be similar..

First, I should probably clarify that I don't see the aggressiveness rankings as being uniformly linear (I don't for instance think that a razor pegged at 5 on the scale is exactly half as aggressive as a razor pegged as a 10). However, the razor comparisons you mention were calculated from direct-comparison survey results....


For instance, in a survey comparing the ATT M1 with the EJ89:

4 respondents said the EJ89 was more aggressive

9 said the M1 was more aggressive

1 respondent (like you) said they found them to be about the same
​

While these razors are clearly in the same ball park, significantly more respondents did say the M1 was more aggressive. My made-up formula that I used to crunch all of these surveys into the 1 to 10 rankings, estimated the M1 as being ~1.3 points more aggressive than the EJ89. While I certainly wouldn't invest money based on surveys with such a small number of respondent (nor on formulas like the one I made-up to crunch the surveys into rankings) ... my personal guess is that they are probably accurate within plus or minus 2 points on the scale. Far from perfect, but still the best (and only) survey-calculated razor comparisons that I've seen on the Internet....

From personal experience, I'll also add that to me, my M1 feels noticeably more aggressive than my EJ89 (although strangely, it seems that I forgot to personally take that survey).


As for the M1 vs. M2 ... I agree that it would seem rational that they should be identical in aggressiveness. However, from the survey you can see why the formulated rankings list the M2 as being slightly more aggressive:

3 respondents said the M1 was more aggressive

9 respondents said the M2 was more aggressive

4 said they were about the same
​

My personal guess is that the open comb raking over the skin makes the feel of the M2 more noticeable. So, while its blade gap and blade exposure measurements might be identical, it still might feel more aggressive to many users....


The reference razors listed in this survey are the ones from the original set of surveys that had a relatively higher number of respondents. While I was of course expecting to get some variance in this specific poll (almost all of these polls had a lot of variance), I am surprised to see a variance of 5.0 points (from 2.0 to 7.0). That said, 20 respondent is a pretty good turnout ... and it should yield a reasonably representative averaged out ranking for its inclusion on the wiki chart.


Thoughts?


Thanks!
Shawn

 

[shawnsel]

There is still one day left to respond (or change a prior response).

Current responses:

• (7.0) Fatip (roughly around 7 to 7.5)
  • keithmax
• (6.5) Above The Tie R1/R2 --OR-- Pearl/RazoRock
  • alfredus
  • e-dub
  • Sceptic Pencil
  • Thin Crust
  • vadim
• (6.0) Pearl/RazoRock OC (roughly around 6 to 6.5)
  • davidsilva
  • dfoulk (from thread)
• (5.5) Similar to Merkur slant bar models
  • wscottb7862
• (5.0) Above The Tie M2 525.00%
  • bpdavidson
  • DucS2R
  • elmoensio
  • Freelancer
• (4.0) Weber PH --OR-- Above The Tie M1
  • jackgoldman123
  • mrdo1
  • ltjaw (modified in thread)
• (3.5) (no reference razor) 210.00%
  • Cl3anShav3
  • Toddster64
• (3.0) Merkur solid bar models (example: 34C)
  • Jaybeez
• (2.0) This razor is less aggressive than those above
  • Jinx18 (clarified in thread)
  • Patchy (voted as "less than 2.5" ... so tallying as 2.0 unless Patchy would prefer otherwise?)

Formula: (7 + (5*6.5) + (2*6) + 5.5 + (4*5) + (3*4) + (2*3.5) + 3 + (2*2)) / 21 = 4.9

However, given that the responses vary from 2.0 to 7, which is 1.0 wider than my standard caveat that ratings should be considered as plus or minus 2.0....

So, I'm thinking the best representation of the results might be to place the BBS-1 on the aggressiveness chart as "roughly around 4.0 to 6.0" for the average shaver?


Thoughts?


Thanks!
Shawn

 

[rabidus]

A year ago Chamm praised the BBS-1 and I pushed him to compare it to a British flat bottom Tech. Here is what he had to say.

Well, I got the English flat Tech, and used it this morning. The first thing I need to say is that if I suddenly stop posting on the forum, it's because the police came and took me away. I stole that razor! I really thought that I'd get it, and there would be some major flaw. Really, all I was after was the head, anyway, so I didn't care too much. Well, that thing is just as flawless as it looks in the pictures. Aside from a small chip on the inside, the Bakelite case looks like you could see it in a store window. The razor was clearly used, but it was well taken care of. I don't think anyone would mistake it for NOS, but it is in superb condition. Plus, I don't think I could get a regular old cased American Tech in that condition for $40 shipped.

So for the shave, I must admit, I am a little surprised at how much more aggressive it is than the American version. People tend to split hairs on B&B. (no pun intended.) I've heard that the pre-war Tech is more aggressive than the post-war tech, and while that might be true in a very esoteric sense, 99/100 people wouldn't be able to tell them apart blindfolded.

No so with the English flat bottom Tech. You are absolutely 100% correct in saying that it has characteristics very similar to the BBS-1. The "face feel" of the two are very similar, in that I was able to push the Tech very hard and not cut myself. At the same time, it shaved a lot closer than the American version.

I will say, though that the BBS-1 shaves a bit closer than the English flat Tech. My methodology was simple. I did a very aggressive 3-pass shave with the English Tech. My face felt very smooth, although I had a little more irritation than I normally get with the BBS-1. After I got my face as smooth as I could, (what I would have called a BBS shave about two months ago) I put the same blade into the BBS-1 and did another pass. Although my face felt pretty smooth, I was able to feel quite a bit of stubble with the BBS-1, and I confirmed that it was getting more hair than the English Tech by looking at the black spots in my shaving foam.

So, if you've used the English flat Tech, I would say for comparison that the BBS-1 shaves very similarly, and gets slightly closer. Not by a huge amount, mind you. Even if it only shaved just a couple microns closer, I would still see lots of black specks in my shaving foam. Also, as it was my first time with the English Tech, there is probably room for refinement in my technique.

So that's one more razor that I can compare to the BBS-1, and it's still at the top of my razor heap.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/422583-BBS-1-13-First-Impression/page5

 

[chamm]

That guy's a crazy windbag. I wouldn't trust anything he says!

 

[ncsuactor84BNB]

I see your point, perhaps it would be unfeasible to give it numeric rating (especially since it isn't really a linear scale) ... but it would still be interesting to read your comparison between the BBS-1 and the EJ89.

Thanks!
Shawn

Sorry for the delayed response on this...

The EJ89 is a good razor, one that I enjoyed very much, but upon the arrival of my BBS-1 I have used it a grand total of 0 times. It's just superior in nearly every aspect.

The BBS-1 is without question more aggressive. More stubble comes off with a BBS-1, and that's the end of that. Now, I wouldn't say the BBS-1 is the most aggressive razor in the world - I still need 3 passes with some heavy touch up to achieve a true, real deal BBS. So while I've never used an R-41 or an Above the Tie H1/H2, I would wager a guess that those razors are more aggressive. If I had to take a guess I'd say 6 out of 10, but I'm by no means a connoisseur of razors.

In terms of comfort, the BBS-1 provides a pretty forgiving shave. Slightly more forgiving than an EJ89. Let me put it this way, I wasn't able to use feathers until I got my BBS-1. Now - I still have to be careful - I will cut myself with a feather if the blade gets too dull or if I'm not paying attention, but if I take my time (which I unfortunately rarely do these days) I can get a pretty clean irritation-free shave.

The blade makes a big difference in the BBS-1. I've been using feathers for the last year, but I'm thinking of switching to Super Crystals. Out of all the blades I have they provide the most irritation free shave. I can really bear down with a Super Crystal and it won't cut me. If I do that with the feather, especially if I'm going against the grain - cut city.

In terms of durability and build quality, the razor is in a class of it's own. This thing is built like a tank and I'm guessing will last multiple lifetimes.

Once my sabattical is over, I'm thinking of rewarding myself with a few new razors. I'm thinking an R1 and maybe a wolfman open comb. I will post comparisons if that happens.

 

[beamon]

As a noob into serious DE shaving, I'm hearing about the BBS-1 for the first time. With sales shut down until the next production run the website does not list the price. What was the price for the last production run and is the craftsmanship about like the ATT, Feather AS-D2, Mongoose etc.

 

[shawnsel]

As a noob into serious DE shaving, I'm hearing about the BBS-1 for the first time. With sales shut down until the next production run the website does not list the price. What was the price for the last production run and is the craftsmanship about like the ATT, Feather AS-D2, Mongoose etc.

IF my memory is right, I think they were around $290 to $300

 

[alfredus]

As a noob into serious DE shaving, I'm hearing about the BBS-1 for the first time. With sales shut down until the next production run the website does not list the price. What was the price for the last production run and is the craftsmanship about like the ATT, Feather AS-D2, Mongoose etc.

I believe the last batch was 299$ including deliver to the US.

As for craftsmanship - I really think my ATT is a beautiful razor and a fantastic shaver - but James' work (the guy who makes the BBS-1 and also Wolfman razors) has to be seen to believe it. IMO it is not just a fantastic razor but also a piece of art - of course YMMV.

The feather is sintered stainless, and while also really nicely made you cannot compare a machined razor to a sintered one. The Mongoose looks very slick - but is for me too big and too heavy. It also uses very different blades and therefore I can't compare it to other DE's - it is a SE and as such as far as I know the only SS one in that category.