So on this wonderful night I decided to take my first shot at honing. I prepared my new king 1k stone, filled up my spray bottle with water and went for it. I first ran my blade on glass to dull it so I would know that and sharpness in the edge was purely from me honing. Moving on, I started with circles down the stone for a few sets, then proceeded to do x strokes. My test was cutting arm hair. I never got there? Eventually I was able to cut some arm hair but it took a couple of strokes. It wasn't happening with ease. Now, this blade is kind of warped but it's very slight. I did some x strokes leading with the tip and vice versa. I'm tried all different kinds of pressure but it just wasn't getting there. What in the heck could I be doing wrong? I thought bevel setting would have been easy and the coticule would be the one giving me trouble. I didn't even make it to the coti yet. I don't want to move on until I know the bevel is right. Tips? Guidance?
First time at the stone today. Now the real questions come out!
- Thread starter blackhhawk
- Start date
If that is the brown-red King that I had you will need to soak that puppy for a 10 minutes or so prior to use. I also never had good luck with circles and prefer to do half strokes instead. To set a bevel might take a bunch of strokes per side depending. Maybe 50 back and forths if not more per side minimum?
Setting a bevel can take a while, and can take a fair amount of pressure too. It all boils down to experience, so keep on experiencing!
Setting a bevel can take a while, and can take a fair amount of pressure too. It all boils down to experience, so keep on experiencing!
- Thread starter
- #3
Maybe I need to use more pressure. I was at it for quite some time though. Should I be shaving arm hair easily once the bevel is set?
Everyone is different, but you should need just a bit of pressure to cut the hair. Personally my arm hair is really fine and doesn't cut well off a 1k so I resort to leg hair, which is a bit more coarse.
Did you soak the stone? A dry King would be very hard to hone on.
Did you soak the stone? A dry King would be very hard to hone on.
I agree with Kent on the stroke of choice when using 1 K to correct bevels. IOW, I'm a 1/2 stroke loyalist as well. That said, whenever I get a blade from the wild and it gives me fits trying to correct the bevels, and it just doesn't work out for me, I send it to Scott Lockwood 
Stay the course with your 1K King. You might try setting it aside for a day or two then coming back to it with fresh eyes. No one hates warped bevels more than myself. What you might try doing...lap one or both sides of the 1K King and use the side of the hone for a narrower honing experience
If you don't have a DMT plate yet to lap your stones, you can always use sandpaper on a flat surface (some use them dry, others wet the paper)...window panes are usually flat
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My first 1K hone (Norton 220/1K) I ended up cutting in half lengthwise to deal with warped beveled razors when attempting to correct the bevels. I had purchased a Chosera 1 K but it came mounted on plastic bench so using the side of the Chosera was out but I think you'll be able to work magic on those bevels if you use the side of the King 1 K. Just a thought...
others may have better and different ideas
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
P.S. something else...it's not just enough to do 1/2 strokes when bevel correcting, or anytime you use that stroke for that matter...the proper way to use the 1/2 stroke, you want to place emphasis on the push side of the stroke, less on the return
how much emphasis?...same amount of pressure you use on the eraser side of a pencil to remove a pencil line/lettering from a sheet of paper
Stay the course with your 1K King. You might try setting it aside for a day or two then coming back to it with fresh eyes. No one hates warped bevels more than myself. What you might try doing...lap one or both sides of the 1K King and use the side of the hone for a narrower honing experience
If you don't have a DMT plate yet to lap your stones, you can always use sandpaper on a flat surface (some use them dry, others wet the paper)...window panes are usually flat
\
My first 1K hone (Norton 220/1K) I ended up cutting in half lengthwise to deal with warped beveled razors when attempting to correct the bevels. I had purchased a Chosera 1 K but it came mounted on plastic bench so using the side of the Chosera was out but I think you'll be able to work magic on those bevels if you use the side of the King 1 K. Just a thought...
others may have better and different ideas
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
P.S. something else...it's not just enough to do 1/2 strokes when bevel correcting, or anytime you use that stroke for that matter...the proper way to use the 1/2 stroke, you want to place emphasis on the push side of the stroke, less on the return
how much emphasis?...same amount of pressure you use on the eraser side of a pencil to remove a pencil line/lettering from a sheet of paper
Half strokes and using the side of my choseras, I keep one side lapped. I remember being frustrated like this. I learned on nortons, on ebay blades so it wasn't fun. So I ended up with a full spread of dmts! That made things easier until I learned you don't have to make them dead flat to hone them. And my first new dovo had crooked spine and was short at the toe. Keep at it, you will get there.
Soak the King till it stops bubbling and hissing.
Lap it, raise a slurry and it'll cut pretty well.
Lap it, raise a slurry and it'll cut pretty well.
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- Thread starter
- #8
Raise a slurry with what? Should I use my coti slurry stone?
- Thread starter
- #10
Okay. The stone is lapped, I lapped it the other day when I got it. I did not soak it though, I just sprayed it down a lot before use until I got a pool of water on top and I kept spraying it down during use. Thanks for the help everyone.
Should I be able to easily shave arm hair when the bevel is properly set? Am I using a realistic indicator?
Should I be able to easily shave arm hair when the bevel is properly set? Am I using a realistic indicator?
Yep, that's pretty realistic. You can use the TNT to see if you hit the whole bevel then do a few more x strokes. Wet a small patch of arm hair and the hair should come off smoothly with no tugging; just wipe that hair away
I cut a piece off one end to use for slurrying.
Small DMT or even a big one will work.
Small DMT or even a big one will work.
Maybe try using a black marker on the bevel and a few very light strokes on the King to see where it's contacting the stone, and hopefully ensure it's hitting the edge all the way along. Whislt pressure can be used when setting the bevel I go with really light strokes once I've got a rough bevel.
There are many ways to rub a razor on a stone but I feel consistency and muscle memory play a big part in getting a nice edge. If you're trying a variety of stokes and pressure the bevel may be getting out of sync. Pick something like fairly light pressure & smooth, even x-strokes and run with it. I have fairly light beard growth and my edges came on when I reaslised, after a little stropping, I could get a decent with the grain shave test off the King 1K. Much like Alx's axe method I then found the shave from the 1k came on leaps and bounds after a few laps on something like a coticule. I'll grant you it may not be the edge you've been dreaming of but a decent shaving edge is not that far off a nice bevel set.
For maxing out the King 1K I like to use super light strokes and flood it with water every few laps as I'm finishing up.
There are many ways to rub a razor on a stone but I feel consistency and muscle memory play a big part in getting a nice edge. If you're trying a variety of stokes and pressure the bevel may be getting out of sync. Pick something like fairly light pressure & smooth, even x-strokes and run with it. I have fairly light beard growth and my edges came on when I reaslised, after a little stropping, I could get a decent with the grain shave test off the King 1K. Much like Alx's axe method I then found the shave from the 1k came on leaps and bounds after a few laps on something like a coticule. I'll grant you it may not be the edge you've been dreaming of but a decent shaving edge is not that far off a nice bevel set.
For maxing out the King 1K I like to use super light strokes and flood it with water every few laps as I'm finishing up.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Yeah a good bevel generally (YMMV due to differences in hair texture, etc) will shave forearm hair fairly well. If there is any doubt, and you think your bevel is set but are not sure, there are a few tests you can try to help clear up the mystery.
MICROSCOPE. USB microscopes are pretty cheap. Google is your friend.
SHARPIE TEST. If you see ink remaining anywhere at the edge after 2 or 3 careful strokes, the edge is not contacting the stone there, yet, and so obviously the bevel is not set at that point.
GLASS THE EDGE. run the edge very lightly across a beer bottle, as if trying to slice the bottle in two but with almost zero pressure. Now, if it did shave arm hair before, it should not do so any more. or only with some difficulty. Do a few dozen light laps on the stone and you should find it shaves arm hair again. If not, continue honing until it does, and give it an extra dozen for good measure.
BURR METHOD. Do half laps until you detect a burr along the whole length of the edge. It will probably appear first in one or two areas and then the whole blade by the time you do another dozen half laps, if the bevel was set. It should only take about 20 half laps if the bevel WAS set. If not, you can simply continue until you feel it. Let's say you hone half laps with the "show" side down on the stone. It should deflect a tiny bit of steel over toward the "back" side of the blade. When you run your fingertip from the spine toward the edge and then off the edge like driving over a cliff, you should feel a very tiny hook or catch. It will be hard to detect at first but if you flip the blade over and test the "show" side of the edge with your finger, you should be able to tell the difference early on. Okay, so you have a burr, and it can be detected along the entire length of the edge, with absolutely no gaps. Alright... now do half laps with the "back" side down. Do the same number of half laps that you did on the "show" side. You should feel a new burr on the "show" side of the edge. Of course the burr on the "back" side should be gone. If this burr is detectable the full length of the edge, then you have successfully raised a burr on each side in turn. Give it about 30 light alternating laps to remove the burr. Now your bevel is set, and PROVEN so. It should shave arm hair fairly well. Don't keep half-lapping until the burr is huge and visible. That simply wastes steel. When the burr is barely there, you haven't honed off much.
MICROSCOPE. USB microscopes are pretty cheap. Google is your friend.
SHARPIE TEST. If you see ink remaining anywhere at the edge after 2 or 3 careful strokes, the edge is not contacting the stone there, yet, and so obviously the bevel is not set at that point.
GLASS THE EDGE. run the edge very lightly across a beer bottle, as if trying to slice the bottle in two but with almost zero pressure. Now, if it did shave arm hair before, it should not do so any more. or only with some difficulty. Do a few dozen light laps on the stone and you should find it shaves arm hair again. If not, continue honing until it does, and give it an extra dozen for good measure.
BURR METHOD. Do half laps until you detect a burr along the whole length of the edge. It will probably appear first in one or two areas and then the whole blade by the time you do another dozen half laps, if the bevel was set. It should only take about 20 half laps if the bevel WAS set. If not, you can simply continue until you feel it. Let's say you hone half laps with the "show" side down on the stone. It should deflect a tiny bit of steel over toward the "back" side of the blade. When you run your fingertip from the spine toward the edge and then off the edge like driving over a cliff, you should feel a very tiny hook or catch. It will be hard to detect at first but if you flip the blade over and test the "show" side of the edge with your finger, you should be able to tell the difference early on. Okay, so you have a burr, and it can be detected along the entire length of the edge, with absolutely no gaps. Alright... now do half laps with the "back" side down. Do the same number of half laps that you did on the "show" side. You should feel a new burr on the "show" side of the edge. Of course the burr on the "back" side should be gone. If this burr is detectable the full length of the edge, then you have successfully raised a burr on each side in turn. Give it about 30 light alternating laps to remove the burr. Now your bevel is set, and PROVEN so. It should shave arm hair fairly well. Don't keep half-lapping until the burr is huge and visible. That simply wastes steel. When the burr is barely there, you haven't honed off much.
- Thread starter
- #16
I think I made my first mistake running it over the glass with way too much pressure. I've had the king soaking in water for a while, I'm going to hit it again in a little while and try using lighter pressure. I think I was using way to much with it. I lapped the stone again before and I'm going to give it another shot. Thanks for the help everyone, hopefully I can get it down tonight.
Your first mistake is in thinking that setting the bevel would be easy.
Even a slight warp can be a challenge.
Run the King on the DMT in figure 8 patterns regularly to keep the flatness true.
The King is a funny stone, it feels grittier than it really is IMO. It is not 'fast'.
You need to use pressure, but not so much that you flex the blade.
If you flex the blade - you'll lift the edge up.
Try to imagine the amount of pressure you'd use to erase a line with a pencil.
Like - a #2 pencil on standard notebook paper where you're not going to pil the paper up or deform the eraser.
If you use X strokes, you can map the scratch pattern to see if you're hitting along the entire bevel.
If you're honing, and you're hitting the entire bevel, you are removing metal. Believe that.
The trick is to go until it's done.
Sharpie tests can help if you can't see the scratch pattern clearly.
Even a slight warp can be a challenge.
Run the King on the DMT in figure 8 patterns regularly to keep the flatness true.
The King is a funny stone, it feels grittier than it really is IMO. It is not 'fast'.
You need to use pressure, but not so much that you flex the blade.
If you flex the blade - you'll lift the edge up.
Try to imagine the amount of pressure you'd use to erase a line with a pencil.
Like - a #2 pencil on standard notebook paper where you're not going to pil the paper up or deform the eraser.
If you use X strokes, you can map the scratch pattern to see if you're hitting along the entire bevel.
If you're honing, and you're hitting the entire bevel, you are removing metal. Believe that.
The trick is to go until it's done.
Sharpie tests can help if you can't see the scratch pattern clearly.
- Thread starter
- #18
I think I'm going to put this on hold until I get home from my vacation. I have a different razor at home which isn't warped that I can try bevel setting with. Maybe this blade is just too challenging for my first time. I am also going to order a loupe from Amazon so its there when I get home and I can see my edge when I go at it again. Thanks Gamma, and everyone else for your helpfulness.
Run the sharpie test along the edge to definitively see where you're hitting the edge and where it's missing (if it is missing anywhere). As I've found out myself, many vintage razors seem to have some degree of warp to them. Some slight, some rather prominent. It may well end up that you'll need to perform a rolling X stroke on one or both sides to hit the entire edge. Honing gymnastics, as it were. You might be able to get away with simply placing a bit of finger pressure on the area(s) that aren't contacting the hone and be successful.
A narrower hone, as has been suggested above, would also work. When the bevel is properly set, you should be able to shave arm (or leg) hair with ease; just touching the hair with the edge should pop it with no effort. The bevel setting stage is the most laborious part of the honing process. Don't move past this stage until the bevel is properly set, otherwise you'll be polishing an inferior edge. I like to run a circle honing sequence to cut down on the labor. 20 firm circles on each side (clockwise with the edge away from me, counterclockwise with the edge toward) followed by 10 firm laps. Follow that with 20 light circles on each side followed by 10 light laps. Check the bevel with the shave arm/leg test and do laps until you get to where you want to be. It might be worth a shot.
A narrower hone, as has been suggested above, would also work. When the bevel is properly set, you should be able to shave arm (or leg) hair with ease; just touching the hair with the edge should pop it with no effort. The bevel setting stage is the most laborious part of the honing process. Don't move past this stage until the bevel is properly set, otherwise you'll be polishing an inferior edge. I like to run a circle honing sequence to cut down on the labor. 20 firm circles on each side (clockwise with the edge away from me, counterclockwise with the edge toward) followed by 10 firm laps. Follow that with 20 light circles on each side followed by 10 light laps. Check the bevel with the shave arm/leg test and do laps until you get to where you want to be. It might be worth a shot.
- Thread starter
- #20
I might try the sharpie but when I hold that razor down flat on the stone one end comes off the stone a little. It's definitely warped. I'm going to revisit this when I got home.
