First stone questions

[twitch182]

I've been straight razor shaving for a few months. I've gotten the hang of shaving and stropping and I'm looking to pick up my first hone. After doing a considerable amount of research, I've narrowed it down to 3 choices:

Norton 4/8k combo stone
Pros: One of the most versatile stones there is. Great for a beginner to learn on, and will give great edges for more advanced honers.
Cons: I will have to buy at least one more stone to lap it, most likely a low grit DMT. Very likely I will pick up some finishing stone soon anyway. Very good place for HAD to start.

Naniwa Super Stone 12K
Pros: The only stone I will *need* for a while. I should be able to just keep refreshing the edge on my current razors for a year or so.
Cons:
I will need to get a new stone, but not very soon. If I chip a blade, I will have to buy a 4/8k norton anyway (or a 1k stone of some kind).

Lapping film
Pros: in the short/mid term this is by far the cheapist option. I can pick up a flat piece of marble and a piece of 3 or 4 different grits of lapping film for less then half the cost of either of the above stones. Will give great edges and from what I can tell pretty easy to learn on.
Cons: Not sexy like stones are. If I hone a few thousand razors, stones might end up being cheaper.

I'm leaning heavily towards film. My questions: Am I missing any options that I should consider? Am I missing any major pro/cons I should be thinking about? What would you pick if you were in my position? I understand YMMV, but I figured I'd ask.

Thanks,
Twitch

 

[TxShaver]

I just recently picked up a full set of Norton stones. The 4/8 is a great stone. You can lap stones on a piece of glass with some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper without having to buy a DMT for it. Plus you can finish on the 8k and shave just fine (technically you should be shaving sharp off a 1k and the rest is just to refine the edge). Grits higher than 8k are just for comfort.

Norton 4/8 gets my vote.

 

[Lomez]

I'm only about 2 weeks into this honing adventure, but I am pretty happy with my purchase of:

-DMT1200
-Small coticule
-Film


If you search under my name you can get some of the pro's advise to me re: the same question. I wouldnt put too much stress on spending on a DMT325, it seems like a good tool for this work. In fact, it seems like one of the few tools that everyone agrees on...

I think I will always have a curiosity of the Norton 4/8k just bc of it's popularity, and I may get it one day...

I look fwd to seeing what you get!

 

[suits123]

I would buy a finishing stone. the naniwa 12k or a nice coticule. No need to go lower if you just plan on freshening up a razor. Not to mention a coticule you could go from pretty dull to final finisher on one stone with slurry.

 

[Kentos]

Do you know what kind of finish you like on a razor?

The most important thing is to choose a system, and then get good at it before wandering off and trying something new.

I prefer natural edges bolstered with sprays, so a coticule would be my advice.

 

[smalltank]

you will NEED a 1k stone to get your bevels set quicker..unless you wanna stay on a 4k stone for awhile...coticules are great for finishers..polish/sharpen all in one!

 

[jpcwon]

My first hones were a Norton 4/8 and Naniwa 12k which were great, but the bulk of my honing at the beginning happened on a coticule as I figured out pretty quickly that I preferred natural stones. The smoothness that a coticule imparts is unmatched by a Naniwa 12k IMHO, but that's just me....Like Kent said, you'll need to figure out what kind of finish you prefer on your razors, and the only way to figure that out is to try different hones/methods of honing. If you like crisp-feeling edges, then a Naniwa 12k or film would probably be a good choice. If you feel like you may prefer a more mellow edge, then I would recommend a coticule...

 

[ACorazza]

I also recommend a coticule.

Pros: They can be used almost from bevel setting to finishing. They make a very skin friendly edge. Since they are natural don't require much maintenance(not as much lapping and no need for soaking). Since you only need one stone, it can be had relatively cheap depending on the size of the stone.

Cons: They have a learning curve and you'll have to put some research in both online and hands on before you start getting the full potential of the stone. But there is so much written about them and a very friendly coticule following on here that you should be able to get any problems sorted out.

 

[twitch182]

Thanks for all the responses! A coticule wasn't really on my radar, but I can see I have a bit more reasearch to do. As for the type of edge I like, I have no idea. I own two razors, one honed by Larry of whipped dog, the other by Lynn from SRP. Both edges were amazing, but I prefer the edge that Larry put on. I have no idea what methods were used to hone either razor, I only mention it if someone else knows offhand.

Thanks for all the input and keep it coming!

 

[global_dev]

You should ask Larry. Maybe was a super stone 12k?

I know nortons are popular, but I think one reason is because its easily accessible at many retailers. Its not the only reason I am sure but I think any of the manufacturers stones, shaptin, naniwa, suehiro, bester, king, nubatuma? Would work well.

Check out chefknivestogo

 

[TxShaver]

If Im not mistaken, Larry uses Norton Combo stones and finishes on C12K stones. I have never used one of Lynn's razors so I have no idea of what he hones on, but I would assume that he uses expensive synthetic hones. Im fairly sure of what Larry uses because I've been to his house before and Im pretty sure thats what I saw in his workshop.

 

[global_dev]

If Im not mistaken, Larry uses Norton Combo stones and finishes on C12K stones. I have never used one of Lynn's razors so I have no idea of what he hones on, but I would assume that he uses expensive synthetic hones. Im fairly sure of what Larry uses because I've been to his house before and Im pretty sure thats what I saw in his workshop.

wow, i'd be suprised if he finished on a CNAT if he is honing volume, just seems like a lot of work based on typical CNATs. not surprised about the nortons since he cuts em up.

 

[TxShaver]

wow, i'd be suprised if he finished on a CNAT if he is honing volume, just seems like a lot of work based on typical CNATs. not surprised about the nortons since he cuts em up.

Well I could be mistaken about his finishing stone, but to me it would make sense that he would use something cheap since he does try to keep cost way down. But as far as volume, I do know that he also has some helpers that come in and do honing for him when hes backed up. I met with him just after the first of the year when he was still backordered from Christmas and he had someone come in to help him hone.

 

[Proinsias]

I thought Larry and Lynn both tended to finish up with pasted strops. I've never tried one of Lynn's edges, Larry's was great from what I recall.

I've never used the Norton, Naniwa or film but I'd be quite happy with my King 1K, wet/dry paper, a coticule and a slurry stone. The coticule rarely needs to be lapped and whilst the King needs a lot of soaking and lapping it's not that often I need to set a bevel.

For finishing and keeping sharp on the cheap I think it's hard to beat a little chromium oxide on a piece of balsa or leather.

 

[wquiles]

As a beginner myself, I went the route of the "plastic" - the lapping film, and I don't regret it for one second. Lapping film is a great, easy, effective, and a relatively low-cost way to get started.

I first set the bevel on a DMT1200 8"x3", and then progress through the film: 30, 12, 5, 3, and 1u. Then strop on leather loaded with 0.5CrO, and finally strop on plain leather. As you noted, the plastic is not sexy, but it "does" the job really, really well, and the learning time is nearly zero - it is that straight forward (no pun intended).

I am happy with the edges I have now, but just this week I am starting to play with using a linen strop with 0.125CBN after the 0.5CrO step, to see/experiment if I can get a little closer to the sharpness of my Feather/KAI blades. I know this is approaching the point of diminishing returns, but it is fun and part of the "hobby"

 

[twitch182]

I've been looking at the coticule threads and videos on how to hone with one. My biggest take away is that pretty much everyone says that it has a sizeable learning curve. I'd rather not have to take that much time in order to learn honing. It's not something I'd like to do as a hobby, but more of something I'd like to do so I don't have to send my razors out to get honed.

On the other hand, if the edges are that much more amazing then lapping film, it might be worth the time and effort to learn.

 

[pmaster]

You can see the other thread "Thrilla in..." where they're doing a blind test on film vs stones, and so far it seems its quite close, so I don't think you'll be that much more amazed at the edges from one vs another, if done right. So film might be just what you seek.

I've been looking at the coticule threads and videos on how to hone with one. My biggest take away is that pretty much everyone says that it has a sizeable learning curve. I'd rather not have to take that much time in order to learn honing. It's not something I'd like to do as a hobby, but more of something I'd like to do so I don't have to send my razors out to get honed.

On the other hand, if the edges are that much more amazing then lapping film, it might be worth the time and effort to learn.

 

[Kentos]

Well I could be mistaken about his finishing stone, but to me it would make sense that he would use something cheap since he does try to keep cost way down. But as far as volume, I do know that he also has some helpers that come in and do honing for him when hes backed up. I met with him just after the first of the year when he was still backordered from Christmas and he had someone come in to help him hone.

He was surprised about the C12k because it is such a slow stone. To have to finish dozens a day would take forever . The cost of a stone is fixed, so even an expensive stone would eventually cost pennies per razor in a commercial set up.

 

[global_dev]

He was surprised about the C12k because it is such a slow stone. To have to finish dozens a day would take forever . The cost of a stone is fixed, so even an expensive stone would eventually cost pennies per razor in a commercial set up.

thanks Kent. That is exactly what i meant, volume is probably more important than price savings at this point.

 

[ouch]

Twitch, don't take this the wrong way, but when I see someone post this as a "con" for lapping film:

Cons: Not sexy like stones are. If I hone a few thousand razors, stones might end up being cheaper.

all I can say is this:

Spoiler

You're one of us.