Failing HHT, Awesome Shave

[skiajl6297]

I recently had my 6/8 Antelope honed by one of the forum listed Honemeisters, and got back what I assume was a very sharp blade. After cleaning, I shaved with it, and had a decent enough shave. It did not feel as sharp as my filly, but still did the job, with an extra pass or two required WTG to really get where I expected. After stropping post-first shave, and then stropping before my second shave with it, my shave was even better. After this "better" second shave, I tried the HHT and the razor couldn't cut my hair. I tried treetopping hairs from my arm, and hairs were bouncing off the edge. Subsequently, I stropped as before, and have been having very good shaves from this edge. Most recently, I stropped, had the best shave yet, and then tried the HHT post-shave. Failed miserably again. Stropped post-shave to see if that made a difference, and still, failed HHT and treetopping.

Is it possible for an edge to fail these two tests so consistently and completely poorly and still deliver a good shave? The problem I am having is the only experience I have with a wicked edge where the razor popped hairs easily was my filly when I first got it. And those were my first shaves. I am getting decent at getting good shaves, and my filly is out for honing, so perhaps when I get that back, I can do some more comparisons.

I think at the end of the day, since I am getting good (and technique wise, getting better) shaves, I don't know if I really have a problem, per say. I guess I am wondering if my perceived "good" could be "great" if my razor was more sharp, or if what ultimately matters is just the resulting pleasure with my good enough shave. Also, is it possible to strop an edge to a point where it can't HHT but still deliver good shaves?

 

[Luc]

Yes, the HHT is over-rated.

 

[Sergio Campos]

I don't even try HHT anymore, it is just frustrating that it never works. Yet, the shaves are rather good, so I don't bother anymore.

I think it must be something with the way I do it, razors honed by me and some well known people that are actually good at it never pass HHT when I do it. So, I don't anymore.

 

[alpster]

I have been learning to hone for the last few months and I have learned that HHT is certainly an indicator that the blade is sharp, but it's not the whole story. Just last night I shaved with two different razors that I honed on my new stones. The one will pop hairs all over the place at every stage of the honing progression and the other would not. The resulting shaves were identical. Close comfortable and BBS. I will use the HHT to test razors along the way, but I won't re-hone a razor that will not pass as long as every other metric is good. JMHE

 

[skiajl6297]

... I will use the HHT to test razors along the way, but I won't re-hone a razor that will not pass as long as every other metric is good. JMHE

Alpster - what are those other metrics for you to tell you the razor is good to go?

I find that I am great at understanding when I am doing something wrong since, obviously, you get a result of something bad, e.g. dry lather, a nicked strop, razor burn, weepers, etc. But when I am dialing in on doing this correctly, the decent vs. good vs. great is something I am still trying to quantify with all of the variables involved. Curious about how one quantifies a decent vs. good vs. great hone and shave. Is it just the elimination of bad results?

 

[jpcwon]

I have been learning to hone for the last few months and I have learned that HHT is certainly an indicator that the blade is sharp, but it's not the whole story.

This....

The HHT does not tell you if the razor is going to shave smoothly or not. Really, the only way you can tell is to go ahead and shave with it. If I just honed a razor, I will usually do a few swipes WTG and that'll let me know how it's going to shave. Then, if it doesn't go so well, I will finish up the shave with a good shave-ready razor and bring the other one back to the stones...

 

[Doc226]

I would offer for you to send me the razor, I will perform "my HHT" on it and give it a try, I will then hone it for you and send it back.

I will even pay for your shipping.

I have always wanted to try one of these razors that fail the HHT but shaves great.

My guess is that you are not doing the HHT correctly, like shaving, honing, HHTing it takes practice to do it right

 

[skiajl6297]

Doc - PM inbound.

 

[pmaster]

I'm really curious about this thread (if the exchange goes through)! Subscribed!

 

[alpster]

Alpster - what are those other metrics for you to tell you the razor is good to go?

1. I can see a uniform bevel all along the edge and sometimes a a wire edge that I have to hone away.
2. I can see the scratch pattern along the bevel diminish as I progress through the stones.
3. I can see the edge undercutting the water on my stones.
4. I can feel the blade get sticky on the stone (a kind of vaccume).
5. I am getting to where I can feel the edge with my thumb and get a good idea that all is well.
6. I still do the HHT and I smile when the hair pops on the edge.

 

[Attila]

I've subscribed as well. It will be interesting to see what Docs results are.

 

[iambatman85]

This should be interesting. I can never get a razor to pass the HHT but I've been getting good shaves. Even my GD honed up by Buca i couldn't get to pass HHT so I always figured it was my doing it wrong.

 

[Attila]

I have a Gold Dollar coming to me that Bucca honed and Doc checked out the edge on. Doc confirmed the edge was plenty sharp...

 

[iambatman85]

My GD from Buca is quite sharp and expertly honed. I just cant get it or any other razor I have honed up that shaves great to pass the HHT.

 

[Attila]

It's a strange phenomenon. I too have had a razor honed on a Jnat by a local B&B member shave me superbly that I could not get to reliably pass my calibrated HHT either. So I believe you!

 

[Proximus26]

Interesting, waiting on results. But be honest I have also stop checking HHT. When razor fails my expectations I basically hone it on different stone or using different technique.

 

[pmaster]

My guess is it will pass doc's HHT. Maybe it won't be HHT5, but still. I'm also suspecting he might return it with a crazier edge on it

 

[Sergio Campos]

My guess is that you are not doing the HHT correctly, like shaving, honing, HHTing it takes practice to do it right

That's an interesting experiment, I am looking forward to following it.

Doc, my guess is similar to yours. I think I am not doing the HHT correctly. Even more, I think that I think the shave is great but that you might not, in other words, I not only do not know how to HHT, but also can't recognize a good shave or a sharp razor...

I keep trying, however. My razors are becoming sharper and the shaves better with time.

 

[professorchaos]

Qed

 

[Doc226]

I have a Gold Dollar coming to me that Bucca honed and Doc checked out the edge on. Doc confirmed the edge was plenty sharp...

No doubt about it, it was "shave ready" It passed my HHT and shaved me well

My GD from Buca is quite sharp and expertly honed. I just cant get it or any other razor I have honed up that shaves great to pass the HHT.

It does take practice to do the HHT, once you get the hang of it I think it is a wonderful test

That's an interesting experiment, I am looking forward to following it.

Doc, my guess is similar to yours. I think I am not doing the HHT correctly. Even more, I think that I think the shave is great but that you might not, in other words, I not only do not know how to HHT, but also can't recognize a good shave or a sharp razor...

I keep trying, however. My razors are becoming sharper and the shaves better with time.

We all hone to our faces, what is good for one is not good for another.

There is no such thing as an universal "best" edge.

There is a best edge for each of us.