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- #21
Failed Rockwell 6C - replace or upgrade?
- Thread starter DrTron
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Funny. Of my vast vintage collection (one Old Type, one Super Speed, one Slim and one Tech) the only one that shaves anything like the 6S and 6C is the Tech, though I still prefer the 6S. But if I'm going to use one of these vintage models, it will be the Slim, since that is what Sinatra used, according to another thread here. As good a basis to choose a razor as any, I think.
Yes the 6s is really that much more durable. I doubt you or even your grand children wear it out.
If you liked the 6c i would go with the discounted MUCH more durable 6s.
If you liked the 6c i would go with the discounted MUCH more durable 6s.
- Thread starter
- #24
The 6S is heavier than the 6C and really grippy
Best razor around in my opinion.
Best razor around in my opinion.
Watched a clip on YouTube and the upshot was that the 6S seemed to drag more than the 6C. Thought to be due to the brushed finish on the 6S. You could have the 6S plated to avoid that. But that would mean $$$.
I have three razors:
Yaqi matte black - top cap weighs 11g
Yintal Bronze - top cap weighs 16g
Rockwell 6C - top cap weighs 13g
The basic head design is very similar, and mostly interchangeable. The difference is the length of the thread on the top cap. Yaqi is 10mm, Yintal 12mm and 6C is 14mm. The Yaqi top cap is too short for the thicker Rockwell plates, so won't do as a substitute, but the Yintal works OK and is more solid than the Rockwell cap. The Yintal handle is solid brass, not sure if the top cap is also but it's heavier as above. As for the handles, I like both the Yaqi and the Yintal.
So today the thread on my 6C went, and I played around with the combinations as above, and as far as I can see all three top caps work - the issue seems to be in the handle. Fortunately the handle, stripped or not, seems right now to fit on my Tech head, which is also 10-32, so if it continues to fit that's a result.
So one alternative to getting spare 6C parts off Rockwell and risking a re-occurrance of thread problems is to get a Yintal and/or Yaqi off AliExpress. I haven't gone as far as trying out the different combinations but I will in time, and I have two good handles I can use as substitutes.
Yaqi - 91mm, 12mm, 66g
Yintal - 100mm, 12mm, 80g
Yaqi matte black - top cap weighs 11g
Yintal Bronze - top cap weighs 16g
Rockwell 6C - top cap weighs 13g
The basic head design is very similar, and mostly interchangeable. The difference is the length of the thread on the top cap. Yaqi is 10mm, Yintal 12mm and 6C is 14mm. The Yaqi top cap is too short for the thicker Rockwell plates, so won't do as a substitute, but the Yintal works OK and is more solid than the Rockwell cap. The Yintal handle is solid brass, not sure if the top cap is also but it's heavier as above. As for the handles, I like both the Yaqi and the Yintal.
So today the thread on my 6C went, and I played around with the combinations as above, and as far as I can see all three top caps work - the issue seems to be in the handle. Fortunately the handle, stripped or not, seems right now to fit on my Tech head, which is also 10-32, so if it continues to fit that's a result.
So one alternative to getting spare 6C parts off Rockwell and risking a re-occurrance of thread problems is to get a Yintal and/or Yaqi off AliExpress. I haven't gone as far as trying out the different combinations but I will in time, and I have two good handles I can use as substitutes.
Yaqi - 91mm, 12mm, 66g
Yintal - 100mm, 12mm, 80g
My opinion of the 6C is that the handle/stud are very poorly designed. I have a Bali razor, MUCH CHEAPER, and yet the assembly process involves a much tigher fit. The 6C handles moves side to side and this will cobtribute to the stripping of the threads. As for swapping out the heads, this would seem to cause an unavoidable change to the feel of the razor and the nature of the shave.
Indeed - there's a need to acknowledge that the 6C has poor design/construction. It's not the "super razor" some had hoped and expected. All it really has going for it is the three plate choices. Better off sourcing the handle elsewhere if you want quality, and maybe even the top cap.
Sure, swapping parts will have some effect but at least the razor will work. Here's the Yintal top cap, R6 plate and Yaqi handle. Nice balance and feel. 110g. Solid. I wouldn't swap it for any of my GEM razors, but at least it has some kind of longevity.
Good move!! Let us know how things work out (PLEASE)!!
Upgrade. I use the 6S (#2) exclusively. You won’t be sorry.
- I like the 6C as a whole bc of the way it shaves. The fact that it has three plates is a bonus on top of that.
- Does using the other handle resolve the looseness in the assembly? Once the handle gets started on the thread there is a LOT of side-to-side wobble until it is completely tightened. This changes the orientation of the threads during tightening, putting unnecessary forces on the less than ideally strong zinc. If this continces, the stud on the top cat will be the next thing to fail.
- ‘Working’ isn’t enough for me. I’ll agree that the change in handle will probably work for me. But unless that top cap is exactly the same shape, when it presses down on the blade the blade/bottom plate orientation will change. Orientation AND stress on the blade. That has the biggest chance of changing the shave quality.
I have a Yintal. And the handle wobbles just as much during installation. I predict that the stud will be the next thing to go with that technique. I’m going to try swapping the top cap, as you suggest. But this leaves an awful taste in my mouth. I paid $50 for the #5 plate and will use the handle and the top cap from a $10 razor in a setup that is crap on aesthetics?
I’ve heard that the 6S doesn’t glide as easily during to the different plating. That being said, does the stud handle assembly on the 6S eliminate the slop found in the 6C? I don’t want another poorly engineered razor. Maybe I need to look at German razors. They built my Porsche well, so...
I agree with the above, that I would have preferred to use my 6C in its original form. Felt fine in the hand. But that's history since the thread has gone.
The 6C is an immovable mass...once assembled. But my point was during the assembly process. When the handle has been started, there continues to be a large degree of ‘slop’ until the handle finally seats. Threads are much like helical knife blades. If the threads are not kept parallel when tightening, they will cut each other. With every assembly process.
I just checked the Yintal cap. The curvature of the inner surface seems to be exactly the same. (As in copied.) More importantly, the stud on the cap appeared to be larger. This would seem to be the actual case because when the Rockwell handle is screwed on, the slop is gone. Moreover, when first assembling these parts it felt exactly the same as when you mate a bolt/nut assembly with one piece slightly damaged, bc I could feel the Yintal stud recutting the Rockwell threads. Later I’ll measure the actual diameter of the studs on each top cap. The Rockwell is going to be smaller.
I’m going to shave with my Frankenstein monster this morning.
Hate the way the brass enameled(???) Yintal cap looks on my razor.
This really changes my opinion of Rockwell.
Nope. Absolutely not. No way.
Tried the Yintal cap on the 6C. Much more aggressive and very little glide. Part way through the second pass I nicked myself in a place I never nick. So I switched the cap and it changed back to a great razor. For me, the Yintal cap makes the razor a puece of junk that I will not shave with.
If my threads strip out it will be a different handle, a new 6C, a 6S or a totally different razor. The Frankenstein monster wanted to kill Master.
Tried the Yintal cap on the 6C. Much more aggressive and very little glide. Part way through the second pass I nicked myself in a place I never nick. So I switched the cap and it changed back to a great razor. For me, the Yintal cap makes the razor a puece of junk that I will not shave with.
If my threads strip out it will be a different handle, a new 6C, a 6S or a totally different razor. The Frankenstein monster wanted to kill Master.
Having had one 6C fail on me I'm not going to put my confidence in another one. Neither am I going to move to a 6S because it's too heavy for me - I don't want to go over 100g, I just don't like the added weight. So I'll be looking for a different handle for the 6C that keeps the total weight at 95g or under, and offers tighter and better fitting threads. The other thing I'm going to do is try the 6C handle on one of my Ever-Ready 1912 GEM razors. If I can get it to fit I won't have to remove it since the head opens up by itself.
If Rockwell can have the 6C machined correctly it could be a good razor. Right now, it isn't. So as above, potential purchasers need to bear the quality control issues in mind and ask themselves whether they want to buy into this experiment.
1- It depends on how long I can go before failure. But it will have to be a long time to justify another $50.
2- Yeah, the C is about as heavy as I want to go, but it is the satin finish that reduces glide that would deter me the most.
3- I’m inclined to think that the stud is too small. And if the handle happens to be the right size, then other handles are going to have problems too. If the new handle has harder metal than the zinc, then the next problem could be stripping the threads on the stud.
4- If the threads inside the handle are sufficient to tighten down.
5- This is probably the most important aspect of this thread. The razor has a problem, and people need to be aware of that before buying one. I did read of someone that contacted Rockwell about this and Rockwell provided them with a new razor or parts. For me, I am just being very careful when attaching the handle.
The 6C isn’t machined, it’s cast zinc (correct me if I’m wrong here). The 6S isn’t machined either, for that matter. It’s sintered, I believe—which is a similar process. It’s my understanding that you’ll never achieve tolerances equal to well-machined products with these types of manufacturing techniques.
My 6S has a bit more ‘slop’ when first tightening it (compared to my machined SS razors). With that being said, it tightens fine and shaves great. I don’t anticipate having any long term problems with it. But, SS doesn’t have the same use fatigue issues as chromed zinc does.
Should your relatively cheap chromed zinc razor last more than a few months? For sure. Will it ever meet the expectation that it has the same super tight tolerances of a quality machined piece? Not ever.
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