I love Declaration Grooming‘s Milksteak base and the beauty of Scott’s custom shaving brush handles. However, even though I have tried to read extensively on his hand tied knots and users’ experiences with the brushes and different batches of hair, there really isn’t much information on them. What I have garnered is incredibly high praise, however does anyone have any experience with these beautiful brushes? Specifically the latest B17 knot as well as a comparison to his previous iterations.
Experience With Declaration Grooming Brushes
- Thread starter DoctorPorsche
- Start date
B17 knotting service they offer? The one for $140 or so?
Perfecto, for $19, offers a fantastic brush on Amazon . It is real badger, different color wood, has over 13,000 4-5 star reviews. ANY product that has such consistently high ####s should make you go for it.
In contrast, there are very few reviews re: Declaration Grooming. Hmmm
Perfecto, for $19, offers a fantastic brush on Amazon . It is real badger, different color wood, has over 13,000 4-5 star reviews. ANY product that has such consistently high ####s should make you go for it.
In contrast, there are very few reviews re: Declaration Grooming. Hmmm
They're still one of the best artisan products around with great transparency and info. You can't go wrong with Declaration imo
Not having a bunch of reviews on Amazon is NOT an issue for me, quite the contrary.
I find Amazon reviews to be silly at best and disingenuous at worst.
People give negative reviews because they didn't read the ad before buying and give positive reviews because it arrived fast.
Reports of seller shill reviews run rampant. There are companies that provide a paid service to provide good reviews for Amazon products.
Word of mouth here and in general is a more accurate gauge of quality "artisan" supplies.
Are you using this one?? Or just pushing it here, it is the second thread where you post about this brush. You are very new here and probably have not too much experience, if any, with any high end brushes. A few of the artisans, like Declaration Grooming, Allen Long etc, have a stellar reputation, making high end badger knots. One just cannot make recommendations based on Amazon "reviews", we like personal experiences here.
From the looks of it on the Amazon site, it is the very low end of badger brushes. The tips also looked cut, so this is the worst scenario for a shaving brush.
I don't think a lot of guys here have the DG B17 knot, but this is as good a review as you're going to get, I think.
Hi Rudy, @Rudy Vey
With all due respect, I am not "pushing" anything (and I will immediately recognize you are far more experienced in this realm than I never pretended to be). I am merely pointing out that 13,000+ oblivious people use the Perfecto to their great satisfaction. It may not work for you, but it works fine for others. I *do* understand you based on personal experiences here, but the law of averages is so basic that if 13,000 people are giving it 4-5 stars, there must be a pretty darn good reason.
Yes, I am "very new" here, not all of us can have 11,000 posts such as yourself, and my guess is that you are quite an experienced shaver, which I respect, but why the hostility vibe? FIRST time I have felt anything negative on here. Bad hair day?
As for "high end badger knots", I have perused the internet quite a bit. The "general consensus" is that it is nice, but most people seem to feel it is not really worth the extra money. Perhaps it is to you, OK. To others, maybe it just feels like an extra expense when cheaper ones (need not be Perfecto) do just as well. (I have some non-Perfecto ones too. OMG!
)I wonder if I should do 30 days with Perfecto, and then 30 days with a Simpson Chubby 3 Super Badger that I bought in my naivete when I came back to wet-shaving in Nov 2023 onwards. Perhaps, you are indeed correct and I just have not been consistent or paid too close attention (I also veer toward FACE lathering as part of my routine, the feedback on ones hands is irreplaceable--have you tried that?). I would humbly acquiesce that you have more experience, but your posting is a tad off-putting, but OK, whatever. It's a big ocean.
Moving on to positive and constructive: Comment and QUESTION for you on my Simpson Chubby with "super badger" hair. My understanding is that such hair is found on the back of the badger, and less of it. it is also finer (setting color aside as that strikes me more for aesthetics) and softer than the best "regular badger", it is not "cut" (based on what I have read), so this removes the issue you mention with my now imperfect Perfecto. Can you please comment on this?What else can I learn from you? It would take years, of course, because you are more experienced. When I was a teen I played Dungeons and Dragons, and one of the lines from Gary Gygax's books that stuck with me was, when working on your character in the game, it takes time. He wrote, and I roughly recall the exact wording "No one was born a level 20 archmage." Same with shaving.
I am here to learn (I think many people are), I am also here to exchange ideas and reviews (I *think* that is somewhere in your thesis of B&B membership).
Interestingly, I see you have a VENDOR badge, so if anyone is "pushing" something, I could "go low" and write what everyone would be thinking "The vendor doesn't want to get outplayed by Amazon because people are pushing cheaper yet value-oriented products (e.g., Perfecto)). " Maybe the Vendor badge is worth more to some than a Veteran badge (yes, I was permitted a beard as a Rabbi for years in service). No matter--this is not a game for personal attacks.What is it that you vend? I might be interested (though not in 2024 bc I am in the MacGyver challenge, unless I make an exception and for some exceptional reason it is accepted). Or I have friends in my apartment building as well as peers who may be on the lookout for something you sell or service. Do tell. I'm all ears to hear what you are selling--and I mean that in a positive sense, not negative "pushing".
Lastly, as a Chaplain in the United States Navy, I have learned a *few* things, but clearly not as much as you. In addition to my Chaplain training, FEMA courses, psychological first aid classes and a lot more, I have a printed paper I keep with some of my belongings. It is a quote from the brilliant American author and critic, Willliam Lyon Phelps: "The final test of a gentleman is his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him." This quip has long served many people in good and difficult situations alike. The starkest is when having to deal with a dead body. Such a person (deceased) will *never* be able to pay you back, and yet the deceased's body is treated with respect, carefully moved, covered, ritualistically washed according to some traditions, and so on. It is the ultimate act of gentlemanly kindness. (Or maybe he has a super badger brush he would no longer be utilizing?
)Cheers.
PS I think @dmshaver and @Alum Ladd would find these few posts quite interesting.
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@luvmysuper Excellent point and well said.
Hi Rudy, @Rudy Vey
With all due respect, I am not "pushing" anything (and I will immediately recognize you are far more experienced in this realm than I never pretended to be). I am merely pointing out that 13,000+ oblivious people use the Perfecto to their great satisfaction. It may not work for you, but it works fine for others. I *do* understand you based on personal experiences here, but the law of averages is so basic that if 13,000 people are giving it 4-5 stars, there must be a pretty darn good reason.
Yes, I am "very new" here, not all of us can have 11,000 posts such as yourself, and my guess is that you are quite an experienced shaver, which I respect, but why the hostility vibe? FIRST time I have felt anything negative on here. Bad hair day?
As for "high end badger knots", I have perused the internet quite a bit. The "general consensus" is that it is nice, but most people seem to feel it is not really worth the extra money. Perhaps it is to you, OK. To others, maybe it just feels like an extra expense when cheaper ones (need not be Perfecto) do just as well. (I have some non-Perfecto ones too. OMG!
I wonder if I should do 30 days with Perfecto, and then 30 days with a Simpson Chubby 3 Super Badger that I bought in my naivete when I came back to wet-shaving in Nov 2023 onwards. Perhaps, you are indeed correct and I just have not been consistent or paid too close attention (I also veer toward FACE lathering as part of my routine, the feedback on ones hands is irreplaceable--have you tried that?). I would humbly acquiesce that you have more experience, but your posting is a tad off-putting, but OK, whatever. It's a big ocean.
What else can I learn from you? It would take years, of course, because you are more experienced. When I was a teen I played Dungeons and Dragons, and one of the lines from Gary Gygax's books that stuck with me was, when working on your character in the game, it takes time. He wrote, and I roughly recall the exact wording "No one was born a level 20 archmage." Same with shaving.
I am here to learn (I think many people are), I am also here to exchange ideas and reviews (I *think* that is somewhere in your thesis of B&B membership).
What is it that you vend? I might be interested (though not in 2024 bc I am in the MacGyver challenge, unless I make an exception and for some exceptional reason it is accepted). Or I have friends in my apartment building as well as peers who may be on the lookout for something you sell or service. Do tell. I'm all ears to hear what you are selling--and I mean that in a positive sense, not negative "pushing".
Lastly, as a Chaplain in the United States Navy, I have learned a *few* things, but clearly not as much as you. In addition to my Chaplain training, FEMA courses, psychological first aid classes and a lot more, I have a printed paper I keep with some of my belongings. It is a quote from the brilliant American author and critic, Willliam Lyon Phelps: "The final test of a gentleman is his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him." This quip has long served many people in good and difficult situations alike. The starkest is when having to deal with a dead body. Such a person (deceased) will *never* be able to pay you back, and yet the deceased's body is treated with respect, carefully moved, covered, ritualistically washed according to some traditions, and so on. It is the ultimate act of gentlemanly kindness. (Or maybe he has a super badger brush he would no longer be utilizing?
Cheers.
PS I think @dmshaver and @Alum Ladd would find these few posts quite interesting.
I think the rub comes when you suggest that others use it rather than well respected established products from well respected established manufacturers.
We get that you like the item. That isn't an issue.
You've mentioned the brush and seem to like it and that's ok, that's your business.
You've suggested Amazon products in about 10 percent of your posts here. And that's ok too, if you like Amazon, more power to you. Many of us don't have a love of Amazon, and Amazon reviews don't count for much in the opinion of many.
There's a product (Silky Satin Pillow Cases) that has over 425,000 5 star reviews.
That doesn't mean a thing. I wouldn't spend 10 dollars on a set of cheap polyester pillow cases made in China. The 1 star reviews mention them falling apart after a single washing.
All this to illustrate that each of us has their own values, and each of us is welcome to those values.
However, suggesting someone get a 20 dollar made in China Amazon shaving brush in a thread that is SPECIFICALLY asking about a high end Declaration Grooming Brush is bound to get frowny responses.
Perhaps starting your own thread about the Perfecto would be more appropriate.
@luvmysuper For brevity, I did not quote all of your reply. BUT: very well stated in a non-aggressive manner.
And I stand corrected on how to present on here going forward—lesson learned from both @luvmysuper and @Rudy Vey (still need to check out your vendor products).
The reason I quote Amazon is not because I’m earning a referral, simply because they have many products that people here buy and/or easiest for quick links/description/pics. (Eg, I just did it for a pricey Japanese pencil that I know is also sold on a Japanese pen site (they’re fanatical about their pens!), but finding it on Amazon was cater to post.
Nevertheless, I stand corrected and will link to Amazon far less. Thank you for the constructive feedback.
Cheers
Rudy isn’t one to honk his own horn but he designs and turns his own razor handles; makes custom handles on request; offers complete brushes; re-knots handles the owner loves but dislikes the knot, just to list a few things he does.Hi Rudy, @Rudy Vey
With all due respect, I am not "pushing" anything (and I will immediately recognize you are far more experienced in this realm than I never pretended to be). I am merely pointing out that 13,000+ oblivious people use the Perfecto to their great satisfaction. It may not work for you, but it works fine for others. I *do* understand you based on personal experiences here, but the law of averages is so basic that if 13,000 people are giving it 4-5 stars, there must be a pretty darn good reason.
Yes, I am "very new" here, not all of us can have 11,000 posts such as yourself, and my guess is that you are quite an experienced shaver, which I respect, but why the hostility vibe? FIRST time I have felt anything negative on here. Bad hair day?
As for "high end badger knots", I have perused the internet quite a bit. The "general consensus" is that it is nice, but most people seem to feel it is not really worth the extra money. Perhaps it is to you, OK. To others, maybe it just feels like an extra expense when cheaper ones (need not be Perfecto) do just as well. (I have some non-Perfecto ones too. OMG!
I wonder if I should do 30 days with Perfecto, and then 30 days with a Simpson Chubby 3 Super Badger that I bought in my naivete when I came back to wet-shaving in Nov 2023 onwards. Perhaps, you are indeed correct and I just have not been consistent or paid too close attention (I also veer toward FACE lathering as part of my routine, the feedback on ones hands is irreplaceable--have you tried that?). I would humbly acquiesce that you have more experience, but your posting is a tad off-putting, but OK, whatever. It's a big ocean.
What else can I learn from you? It would take years, of course, because you are more experienced. When I was a teen I played Dungeons and Dragons, and one of the lines from Gary Gygax's books that stuck with me was, when working on your character in the game, it takes time. He wrote, and I roughly recall the exact wording "No one was born a level 20 archmage." Same with shaving.
I am here to learn (I think many people are), I am also here to exchange ideas and reviews (I *think* that is somewhere in your thesis of B&B membership).
What is it that you vend? I might be interested (though not in 2024 bc I am in the MacGyver challenge, unless I make an exception and for some exceptional reason it is accepted). Or I have friends in my apartment building as well as peers who may be on the lookout for something you sell or service. Do tell. I'm all ears to hear what you are selling--and I mean that in a positive sense, not negative "pushing".
Lastly, as a Chaplain in the United States Navy, I have learned a *few* things, but clearly not as much as you. In addition to my Chaplain training, FEMA courses, psychological first aid classes and a lot more, I have a printed paper I keep with some of my belongings. It is a quote from the brilliant American author and critic, Willliam Lyon Phelps: "The final test of a gentleman is his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him." This quip has long served many people in good and difficult situations alike. The starkest is when having to deal with a dead body. Such a person (deceased) will *never* be able to pay you back, and yet the deceased's body is treated with respect, carefully moved, covered, ritualistically washed according to some traditions, and so on. It is the ultimate act of gentlemanly kindness. (Or maybe he has a super badger brush he would no longer be utilizing?
Cheers.
PS I think @dmshaver and @Alum Ladd would find these few posts quite interesting.
For me, personally, he provided me with an outstanding synthetic brush; custom made me a handle to house one of those expensive knots; and removed the knots from 3 brushes and turned them into brushes I love using.
Add to that, it’s always a pleasure working with him. He’s a genuinely nice gentleman. And his knowledge is extensive and his customer service is beyond reproach.
You hit the nail on the head as to what matters regarding hi-end brushes. Top of the list is the quality of the design, material and workmanship that goes into the handle. Next is the type of hair and especially for badger the quality of the hair that is used for the knot.
Note that stating that a knot was "hand tied" is not a differentiator - even the cheap under $15 Chinese synthetic brush knots are hand tied before they are glued into the handle. Lots of details on this in the linked thread below that covers brush manufacturing. Also see my posts #10 and #14 on this thread where I stated:
"Shaving brush marketing should focus on those elements that matter such as the quality, dimensions, shape and density of the hair/fibers in the knot, materials, design and craftsmanship that goes into the handle (this is where artisans can significantly differentiate themselves) and/or quality of the brush assembly/adhesive materials that will enable a long life with little shedding."
Per the many reviews from other B&B members quality custom brush artisans like @Rudy Vey produce excellent shaving brushes that are nicely differentiated from the lower cost mass produced options across most if not all of the criteria noted in the paragraph above.
Avoiding confusion: Hand-tied should be Artisan-tied
Something that I think confuses a lot of people in this hobby is the term “hand-tied”. The fact of the matter is 99% of knots are hand tied regardless of their country of origin (in fact the only place i’ve seen automation for the tying of a knot is in Germany). Obviously there should be a...
www.badgerandblade.com
The point that this brush should not be compared to a high-end artisan product has already been well made by @luvmysuper and @Rudy Vey .
A second question, especially for our newer members, is whether or not this is a reasonable low cost brush that should be considered. One can't accurately judge a product on Amazon just based on the number of reviews. Too many fake reviews and in many cases vendors change to a totally different and inferior product using the same old SKU number to create the impression of positive reviews that do not apply. Different vendors can also supply different versions of the same product. Additionally many reviewers often post a quick review after receiving a product before they've ever used it.
In reality the Perfecto on Amazon actually appears to be a terrible low quality brush based on a more detailed review of its reviews. Based on review details here is why the Perfecto is poor value:
- Top two star review (1/2/24 from RJP) indicates that this is a tiny 18mm knot that is far smaller that what is implied in the photos. The actual web listing never states what the size of this brush is, likely for this reason. In fact the photography used on the web listing creates the misleading impression of a much larger brush via the use of magnified images. For new folks here any brush listing without the knot dimensions should be a red flag.
- 100's of reviews with low ratings noting that the brush rapidly sheds and quickly falls apart - not good value.
- Most of the recent good reviews are brief one-liners that often say nothing other than "still have it", "shaving"or "smooth shave". One has to question how valid or real these review are.
- When one clicks on "see all photos" roughly half the photos posted with reviews show a brush that has fallen apart - not a good sign.
- Lots of complaints about uncomfortable bristles. One reviewer was surprised that this brush needed to be broken in like a boar brush. Another questions if the know was really 100% badger hair.
@DoctorPorsche FYI as you are the OP for this thread.
Thanks Kim, appreciate it!!
Great read!I don't think a lot of guys here have the DG B17 knot, but this is as good a review as you're going to get, I think.
I have B4, B6, B8, and B13. They are all a bit different. Some are more gelled (B6) and others more natural (B8). What you can expect from most batches:
- Good to solid backbone
- Soft tips.
- Most knots range from a fan to a mild hybrid. I’ve never seen a bulb.
- You can expect some decent splay.
- The knots are incredibly dense.
- No scritch (except B3 which Scott has addressed and admits to).
- You will also have a very nicely poured, turned and finished handle. I love his pours and am hoping for a Bok for my next Declaration. BoK in B14 would be superb. My advice is that if you can get your hands on a Declaration is to go for it. If you can’t get a pour from a release then get a handle and use the knotting service or hit BST with a wanted post. The good news is his pours are a bit easier to get recently for some reason. Scott really stands by his product and has even recalled a batch (which one I cannot remember).
- Should hold value if you wind up not liking and want to sell.
There are some brushes up right now, one of which is a BoK. Great looking pours overall.
That perfecto brush is just a re-branded "Escali" badger brush, which has been around ever since I got into wet shaving in 2008.
Absolutely terrible brush!
It's an incredibly scratchy pure badger knot.
Horrible shedding issues.
Very poor quality handle.
I've never had a single bigger product upgrade with any of my gear than changing up from the Escali badger!
Absolutely terrible brush!
It's an incredibly scratchy pure badger knot.
Horrible shedding issues.
Very poor quality handle.
I've never had a single bigger product upgrade with any of my gear than changing up from the Escali badger!
I took a look at the current brushes on dg and there are some beauties. Are these poured by dg? I haven’t checked them out in a while (perhaps years), and i think at that time the handles were primarily made by dogwood handcrafts.
Not sure if they have always made brush handles and I missed it or perhaps ramped up recently? These are available to order too which is also a change.
As far as I know, Scott pours and turns all of his handles. I haven’t seen any collabs with dogwood recently.
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