One of the reasons Yates is my favorite is because it rewards a steep angle.
Enjoy Lupo, but not GameChanger?
- Thread starter Blade5082
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That's why what I posted is a guide on how to get the angle, rather than mention a particular angle - it shouldn't matter whether the blade is held flatter or not, as long you keep the same blade angle.I am fairly new to DE wet shaving, so I'm sure my technique could be improved. I'll give the game changer a few more tries.
That said, I get a pretty good shave with the Razorock Mission, as well as the Mentor. Both have a steeper blade angle and a more positive blade exposure. So, I'm inclined to think that the game changer's geometry just isn't for me.
Note that I'm talking specifially about blade angle, rather than handle angle.
It should make for an interesting experiment to see if about the same blade angle would yield a similar shave or not.
So I just got a GC .84 last week because it's a razor I've really been wanting to try. I used it this morning and I would say the GC needs a somewhat shallow angle to work efficiently. I also prefer a steeper angle so the GC is a little tricker for me. I got a really good shave but it took a little more time and effort to watch the angle. So for me the GC is quite good, but trickier to for me use efficiently compared to the Lupo.
I have had the same experience as you. I did get used to the shave angle of the GC though, and I shave really well with it now. Oddly, I prefer my Lupo for face shaves and my GC for head shaves. I find the GC much more forgiving on my big old dome.
I can can get passable results with gamechangers, they're just not as wonderful as either Lupo I've tried.Seems like for most people if they enjoy the lupo they also can get good / okay results with the Game Changer.
@Dnallehekaj - You're in the minority!
There seem to be plenty of others on this thread with similar sentiment.
Prrsonally, I prefer the GC84-P and GC1.05-P to the Lupos. The Gamechanger GC1.05-P might be the ticket.I'm curious if there are any of you who really enjoy the RR Lupo, but who did not enjoy the RR GameChanger?
I have the GameChanger 68 SB, 84 SB, and 68 OC. I've tried each at least half a dozen times, rotating between Astra, BIC, and Feather blades. I can get a somewhat comfortable shave if I use a steep angle, and don't try to go ATG. But the end result is always not every close, with some irritation in my trouble spots.
I also have a Rockwell 6S. I've been using the 6 plate lately and the results are a closer shave with less irritation than any of the GC heads. Against the grain is still a little painful, so I avoid that.
I had purchased the Razorock Mission (aka Maggard "V3", aka Stirling "Standard") for my son a while back and I borrowed it to try. I was surprised at how far out the blade was, since it was advertised as a "Mild" razor. On the first pass I immediately enjoyed the feel and sound of the blade. I could really tell it was working, and yet it felt comfortable. After the first pass, I had a closer shave than I normally do after two. After the second pass I felt like I could be done, but did a 3rd anyway, even trying ATG in a few spots with minimal discomfort.
I was very impressed that this $10 head gave me such a close and comfortable shave. The only down side is that it took nearly 5 minutes to get the blade aligned properly. There's at least 1mm of play in every direction, and it likes to shift as you tighten it.
All that to say, I think I have a strong preference for razors with a positive blade exposure. But (in my admittedly limited experience) I think I also prefer razors that have more bend in the blade. With the Lupo holding the blade relatively flat, I worry that it'll be fairly uncomfortable, like the GC for me.
I'm eyeing the Yates 921-H, and Blackbird also, just at 2x and 3x the price I'd like to consider other options first. There's also the Green Cult 2.0, Muhle Rocca, and EJ 3one6 but thoes are getting close to Yates in price and don't seem as good a value.
I've asked similar questions in other threads, and thanks for everyone who's responded, but I thought I'd start my own so I stop going off-topic on other peoples threads!
Not particularly a Yates fan, unless it's the Brass razor. Don't care for the Stainless finishes. I'd get a Rex Envoy before the Yates.
In my opinion, you can buy several medium priced razors, or just take the leap and go for the Ti Vector SB - my favorite Modern DE razor. Used with a Perma-Sharp or Feather blade, the Ti Blackbird SB will mow down whatever beard type you have with ease.
Just my opinion.
- Thread starter
- #27
So, you don't like the Yates because of the finish or because of the shave quality?Prrsonally, I prefer the GC84-P and GC1.05-P to the Lupos. The Gamechanger GC1.05-P might be the ticket.
Not particularly a Yates fan, unless it's the Brass razor. Don't care for the Stainless finishes. I'd get a Rex Envoy before the Yates.
In my opinion, you can buy several medium priced razors, or just take the leap and go for the Ti Vector SB - my favorite Modern DE razor. Used with a Perma-Sharp or Feather blade, the Ti Blackbird SB will mow down whatever beard type you have with ease.
Just my opinion.
Just thought I'd add that I also have the Yates Merica razor. From what I understand, the Merica has a similar geometry to the Yates 921 M (medium) plate. For me the Merica is a great razor. The Merica's head has a flat area that guides you to the correct angle (which is somewhat steep). The 921 looks to be a somewhat similar design.
It could be that @never-stop-learning prefers a shallower shave angle. The Blackbird also has a flat area to guide the angle, which is somewhat shallow. I have gotten used to it, although for me it feels a bit odd (although some Blackbird users say they use it steep and get good results).
One day I want to get the Yates 921 with the H plate. I imagine it to be a slightly more efficient version of the Merica, and that would be for me an excellent razor indeed.
It could be that @never-stop-learning prefers a shallower shave angle. The Blackbird also has a flat area to guide the angle, which is somewhat shallow. I have gotten used to it, although for me it feels a bit odd (although some Blackbird users say they use it steep and get good results).
One day I want to get the Yates 921 with the H plate. I imagine it to be a slightly more efficient version of the Merica, and that would be for me an excellent razor indeed.
I'm surprised to hear people saying they need a steep angle with a Game Changer. The GC requires a very shallow angle in my experience. Makes me wonder if people have "steep" and "shallow" mixed up.
To get good shaves with Game Changer I use a fairly shallow angle. My 'Merica razor needs a steeper angle. It depends on how much a particular razor bends the blade when it's clamped down. The end goal is to get the edge of the blade at the same angle to your skin - some razors need to be held steep to get the blade edge at that same angle and some razors need to be held shallow to get that same blade angle.
To get good shaves with Game Changer I use a fairly shallow angle. My 'Merica razor needs a steeper angle. It depends on how much a particular razor bends the blade when it's clamped down. The end goal is to get the edge of the blade at the same angle to your skin - some razors need to be held steep to get the blade edge at that same angle and some razors need to be held shallow to get that same blade angle.
- Thread starter
- #30
Your image is what I mean by shallow and steep. For me the game changer pulls (tugs) more than it cuts when I use a shallow angle. It cuts better (smoother, less tugging) with a steep angle, but then the cut is not as close, and it's less efficient.
Your diagram is correct. Shallow means the razor handle is more parallel to the floor, and steep is more perpendicular to the floor.
I wonder whether your angle isn't shallow enough then.
Is this with, across or against the growth?
I approached the GC from the shallow side, and had success with it, except for ATG passes around the corner of my mouth and mustache/upper lip. In the BORG thread, @never-stop-learning advised me to try really steep, and bingo!
Stick to your preconceptions at your own risk
... Thom
Thank you for the diagrams of shallow/steep shaving angles. I've never really concerned myself with the issues of angle as I just try to do what is necessary to make the razor work.
So too with the idea of blade feel. The .84P has become my ine and only, and have found that I can make it have blade feel when I feel i need it. Otherwise I haven't really experience blade feel since shortly after I committed to using it exclusively. Perhaps its related to the fact that i tend to go 2 to 4 days between shaves. Maybe it would be an issue were i to shave more frequently (for which I'd be keen to try the .76P plate. The 68P made me overdo it inorder to get my desired outcome ) That being said, I have, with both the .68 and .84, cut myself by just putting the razor on my face, which I've never experienced with any other razer in my 45 years of shaving.
Why does it seem, to me at least, that positive/neutral/negative blade exposure is only discussed or is an issue with the Game Changer series?
So too with the idea of blade feel. The .84P has become my ine and only, and have found that I can make it have blade feel when I feel i need it. Otherwise I haven't really experience blade feel since shortly after I committed to using it exclusively. Perhaps its related to the fact that i tend to go 2 to 4 days between shaves. Maybe it would be an issue were i to shave more frequently (for which I'd be keen to try the .76P plate. The 68P made me overdo it inorder to get my desired outcome ) That being said, I have, with both the .68 and .84, cut myself by just putting the razor on my face, which I've never experienced with any other razer in my 45 years of shaving.
Why does it seem, to me at least, that positive/neutral/negative blade exposure is only discussed or is an issue with the Game Changer series?
Starting out it is important understand how to maximize the efficiency of the tool you have selected.
There are a bunch of threads here on good starters.
Now if by habit, you are locked into a certain angle or preferring Steep or Swallow, you may have a challenge getting a good shave if the tool does not pair up with that.
Also be mindful there are other factors the impact the shave also (prep, shave process, process - your hardware -ie blade & software) and more.
When you start jumping around buying and trying...it could be a bumpy long road. Finding an instant magical, mostly likely will not happen.
If you have a good tool, master it...it is not the razor...
Really work on improving your skills, consistency and being patient. Get some help and draw up a face map. It can really help.
Some that have issues with going in certain directions, it may shed some light.
It may not if the skin is very sensitive it areas, or skin imperfections there. But at least you will have a warning sign and maybe to adapt around it.
Good thread..
www.badgerandblade.com
There are a bunch of threads here on good starters.
Now if by habit, you are locked into a certain angle or preferring Steep or Swallow, you may have a challenge getting a good shave if the tool does not pair up with that.
Also be mindful there are other factors the impact the shave also (prep, shave process, process - your hardware -ie blade & software) and more.
When you start jumping around buying and trying...it could be a bumpy long road. Finding an instant magical, mostly likely will not happen.
If you have a good tool, master it...it is not the razor...
Really work on improving your skills, consistency and being patient. Get some help and draw up a face map. It can really help.
Some that have issues with going in certain directions, it may shed some light.
It may not if the skin is very sensitive it areas, or skin imperfections there. But at least you will have a warning sign and maybe to adapt around it.
Good thread..
Steep and Shallow Angle Shaving DEFINED
The illustration above was posted today in the DE razors forum (B&B URL), and @Cal, who helped me refine it, thought that I should post it here. Since the illustration applies to both double-edge (DE) and single-edge (SE) safety razors, it does seem to belong here, too. The comprehensive...
www.badgerandblade.com
I cannot imagine being so intractable about one's shaving technique as to not be able to adapt as needed. If you want to play with using different razors you need flexible. Therein lies the problem in my opinion. A certain razer needs a steep or shallow angle. So what? That's what it takes to use. It's hardly anything to complain about. If it is , then, why?. It's like the old joke - "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. So don't do that!"
I'll bet a part of it is a numbers game. At their silly good prices, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 20 Game Changers are sold to people who surf this forum for every Timeless, Rex, Blackland, etc. that's sold.
I'd also say that expectations about which baseplate to select are a bit by optimistic, with perhaps the exception being the threads where people compare them to the Rockwell 1-6 plates.
You rarely hear people talking about the .68-P base plate. I returned to mine recently, and found it to be nearly as efficient as the .76-P, which in turn, is very close to my .84-P.
With every passing month in this blood sport, my technique improves and I find myself getting more out of my razors. As I learn more, I can see why some would call a razor mild, where someone with less experience might shred their face with it.
Lastly, I think there's a bit of peer pressure on this forum which discourages people from talking about preferences for milder razors. There's a bit of a skewing towards aggressiveness in these conversations - even in threads where the OP specifically asks about mild razors.
Me? I'm looking for "just enough", but I'm learning that this is a moving target.
The takeaway for me is Galibier's rule #1: any opinion of mine that's more than a month old is all but irrelevant
... Thom
It's just you. It's discussed on B&B in just about any razor thread before long.
Likely. Certainly, surely. I don't bother with threads about razors I don't have, haven't used, and cannot afford.
- Thread starter
- #40
I wonder whether your angle isn't shallow enough then.
Is this with, across or against the growth?
With and against the grain. Across the grain seems more comfortable, though I usually do that after WTG so it could just be that. ATG I usally skip, but when I do try it's on the 3rd pass.
I will re-vist the game changer and see if I can't get a shallow angle to work.
I'm also keen to try a Kai blade and see if a little extra exposure helps.
I don't have very many razors, but I do use them all differently and adjust the angle as I shave based on how it feels on my face.
Is it possible that riding the cap doesn't feel like it's doing anything even though it might be just a really "smooth" shave? Maybe, I'll report back!
Starting out it is important understand how to maximize the efficiency of the tool you have selected.
There are a bunch of threads here on good starters.
Now if by habit, you are locked into a certain angle or preferring Steep or Swallow, you may have a challenge getting a good shave if the tool does not pair up with that.
Also be mindful there are other factors the impact the shave also (prep, shave process, process - your hardware -ie blade & software) and more.
When you start jumping around buying and trying...it could be a bumpy long road. Finding an instant magical, mostly likely will not happen.
If you have a good tool, master it...it is not the razor...
Really work on improving your skills, consistency and being patient. Get some help and draw up a face map. It can really help.
Some that have issues with going in certain directions, it may shed some light.
It may not if the skin is very sensitive it areas, or skin imperfections there. But at least you will have a warning sign and maybe to adapt around it.
Good thread..
Steep and Shallow Angle Shaving DEFINED
The illustration above was posted today in the DE razors forum (B&B URL), and @Cal, who helped me refine it, thought that I should post it here. Since the illustration applies to both double-edge (DE) and single-edge (SE) safety razors, it does seem to belong here, too. The comprehensive...
View attachment 1729426
I'll admit to not really sticking it out with one razor to really try and master it. I appreciate everyone's encouragement to keep working on technique.
On the flip side, it does seem like some razors are just more work to get good results from, based on my limited experience (about 3 months now of shaving daily -- formerly I kept a beard), and also based on everything I've read in these forums. (Which is an amazing resource, by the way, and I really value everyone sharing their thoughts and stories)
I'll bet a part of it is a numbers game. At their silly good prices, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 20 Game Changers are sold to people who surf this forum for every Timeless, Rex, Blackland, etc. that's sold.
I'd also say that expectations about which baseplate to select are a bit by optimistic, with perhaps the exception being the threads where people compare them to the Rockwell 1-6 plates.
You rarely hear people talking about the .68-P base plate. I returned to mine recently, and found it to be nearly as efficient as the .76-P, which in turn, is very close to my .84-P.
With every passing month in this blood sport, my technique improves and I find myself getting more out of my razors. As I learn more, I can see why some would call a razor mild, where someone with less experience might shred their face with it.
Lastly, I think there's a bit of peer pressure on this forum which discourages people from talking about preferences for milder razors. There's a bit of a skewing towards aggressiveness in these conversations - even in threads where the OP specifically asks about mild razors.
Me? I'm looking for "just enough", but I'm learning that this is a moving target.
The takeaway for me is Galibier's rule #1: any opinion of mine that's more than a month old is all but irrelevant
... Thom
Yes, the Game Changer series really brings a high quality razor within a price that is accessible to many. It's why I got it. That and the fact that so many people reportedly get great results and really enjoy them.
My personal switch from looking for a mild "comfortable" razor to one with a more "aggressive" blade exposure happened when I tried the RR Mission, an inexpensive ($20) "mild" razor that I bought for my 15 yr old son. It had a really different feel than any of the Game Changer heads, or any of the Rockwell 6s plates.
(I confirmed a positive blade exposure by placing the razor on edge of a plastic tuck of of feather blades, and it immediately bit the plastic and shaved a slice off. I had previously tried this with the Rockwell, and the Game Changer and they didn't remove any plastic from the tuck.)
I do use a more shallow angel with the Mission, it feels right that way. And I get a closer shave with it with less effort.
I've also tried the Aggressive head from Stirling (the $10 one, seems the same as the Maggard 3VA, and Razorock Mentor), and I don't like it as much as the Mission -- effecent shave but not as comfortable, and a few nicks.
All that to say I don't "think" it's peer pressure driving me to a more agressive razor... I believe my experience led me to look for more blade exposure, not nessisarly more agression (huge blade gap, etc...)
I agree that preferences and opinions change! Especially for someone like me who's just starting out.
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