ELI5: SE razor styles and where to start

[back_to_shaving]

-What's the advantage of a SE vs a DE?
-what are the different types of SE systems? If I am reading correctly there is AC, GEM and Injectors.

I like the idea of using something both designed and made in America so I'm guessing I should go for a GEM razor or injector.

Start here?

Shave HQ

Vintage razors and great wet shaving starter kits

www.shavehq.com

or here

Supply | High-Performance Products For Personal Grooming

At Supply, we fuse classic traditions and plant-based ingredients with the most useful innovations of modern science and engineering. As seen on Shark Tank, GQ, Men's Journal, and more.

supply.co

or here

Sabre

The Sabre is a modern single-edge safety razor machined from 100% solid stainless steel using GEM blades. Made in the USA.

www.blacklandrazors.com

And what to do for blades?

 

[never-stop-learning]

If you want a new GEM style razor, the Blackland Sabre is awesome. Mine has the Level 2 plate which is a step up in efficiency from the Level 1.

My favorite GEM razor is the Featherweight Deluxe. Smooth and comfortable, yet still efficient.

The Personna made 3-facet GEM blades are readily available.

 

[back_to_shaving]

If you want a new GEM style razor, the Blackland Sabre is awesome. Mine has the Level 2 plate which is a step up in efficiency from the Level 1.

My favorite GEM razor is the Featherweight Deluxe. Smooth and comfortable, yet still efficient.

The Personna made 3-facet GEM blades are readily available.

Are the descriptions of GEM razors shaving closer to straights than DEs also true?

 

[Flintstone65]

-What's the advantage of a SE vs a DE?
-what are the different types of SE systems? If I am reading correctly there is AC, GEM and Injectors.

I like the idea of using something both designed and made in America so I'm guessing I should go for a GEM razor or injector.

Start here?

Shave HQ

Vintage razors and great wet shaving starter kits

www.shavehq.com

or here

Supply | High-Performance Products For Personal Grooming

At Supply, we fuse classic traditions and plant-based ingredients with the most useful innovations of modern science and engineering. As seen on Shark Tank, GQ, Men's Journal, and more.

supply.co

or here

Sabre

The Sabre is a modern single-edge safety razor machined from 100% solid stainless steel using GEM blades. Made in the USA.

www.blacklandrazors.com

And what to do for blades?

So I thought I take a stab at your questions:

1. The main advantage of SE over DE to me is the thickness of the blade. As you probably know, DE blades are VERY thin, in fact you can easily break them in half using just your fingers, hand and wrist motion. SE blades are much thicker and (at least for me) are not easily breakable/bendable with your hands and can give me a run for money when I'm using tools. The thickness makes the blade very rigid, and while I don't profess to fully understand the mechanics and physics of blade rigidity and it's effect on a shave, my experience has been that I get fewer weepers than with some of my DE razors. That said, I still like, collect and use DE razors, but if forced to choose, I would choose SE over DE for what I believe is a smoother, closer, and often easier shave. I would say YMMV -- and indeed it might -- but I've met many, MANY people who started with DE, discovered SE and then never went back to DE.

I just saw an addendum to your question which is do SE's shave closer to straights than DE. Probably an apples to oranges question, and the closest I've come to straight shaving is a Weck Sextoblade (also US made -- think of it as a disposable straight edge blade holder); but in my head, I always think of SE blades as a closer cousin to straights than DE blades (again back to thickness)....but I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. I can tell you that using a straight-razor-like-object (i.e., the Weck Sextoblade) is a much different shaving experience than my SE, so it really is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

As to where to go next, I'm a vintage guy and I would recommend that from a cost (value) standpoint and even razor performance, I would go towards a vintage Schick or a vintage Gem. @never-stop-learning's recommendation of a GEM Feather Weight (deluxe or regular model) is an excellent razor; and a Schick Type L would also be a great "starter model". But honestly, I own close to every model of GEM, Ever-Ready, and Star Single Edge razors (these all use Gem-style blades); and quite a few Schicks (missing only a few letters), and you really can't go wrong with any of those vintage razors.

I am curious though, are you a DE user now? And if so, what are your favorite razors? This helps a bit to know if you prefer more of a "mild" vs "wild" kind of razor in terms of blade feel, efficiency and technique-required.

I'll take a breath for now, but I can point you to some other really good and comprehensive links on Gems and Schicks.

 

[back_to_shaving]

So I thought I take a stab at your questions:

1. The main advantage of SE over DE to me is the thickness of the blade. As you probably know, DE blades are VERY thin, in fact you can easily break them in half using just your fingers, hand and wrist motion. SE blades are much thicker and (at least for me) are not easily breakable/bendable with your hands and can give me a run for money when I'm using tools. The thickness makes the blade very rigid, and while I don't profess to fully understand the mechanics and physics of blade rigidity and it's effect on a shave, my experience has been that I get fewer weepers than with some of my DE razors. That said, I still like, collect and use DE razors, but if forced to choose, I would choose SE over DE for what I believe is a smoother, closer, and often easier shave. I would say YMMV -- and indeed it might -- but I've met many, MANY people who started with DE, discovered SE and then never went back to DE.

I just saw an addendum to your question which is do SE's shave closer to straights than DE. Probably an apples to oranges question, and the closest I've come to straight shaving is a Weck Sextoblade (also US made -- think of it as a disposable straight edge blade holder); but in my head, I always think of SE blades as a closer cousin to straights than DE blades (again back to thickness)....but I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. I can tell you that using a straight-razor-like-object (i.e., the Weck Sextoblade) is a much different shaving experience than my SE, so it really is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

As to where to go next, I'm a vintage guy and I would recommend that from a cost (value) standpoint and even razor performance, I would go towards a vintage Schick or a vintage Gem. @never-stop-learning's recommendation of a GEM Feather Weight (deluxe or regular model) is an excellent razor; and a Schick Type L would also be a great "starter model". But honestly, I own close to every model of GEM, Ever-Ready, and Star Single Edge razors (these are all Gem-style blades); and quite a few Schicks (missing only a few letters), and you really can't go wrong with any of those vintage razors.

I am curious though, are you a DE user now? And if so, what are your favorite razors? This helps a bit to know if you prefer more of a "mild" vs "wild" kind of razor in terms of blade feel, efficiency and technique-required.

I'll take a breath for now, but I can point you to some other really good and comprehensive links on Gems and Schicks.

I used to used to be an avid DE user and then got away from it. Been using my DEs for the past month or so. Using an Edwin Jagger DE89 and Merkur 34C that I bought over 10 years ago and neither of them are cutting it for me in terms of sharpness. That's why I'm interested in more aggressive DEs and SEs. Not really thinking about straights due to the maintenece.

Thanks for your reply bwt. Reminds me that the the beauty of wet shaving is not just in the products but total strangers willing to help others out.

 

[Flintstone65]

I used to used to be an avid DE user and then got away from it. Been using my DEs for the past month or so. Using an Edwin Jagger DE89 and Merkur 34C that I bought over 10 years ago and neither of them are cutting it for me in terms of sharpness. That's why I'm interested in more aggressive DEs and SEs. Not really thinking about straights due to the maintenece.

Very cool. Before I forget, you should check this out: New Member PIF -- a quick glance at your profile suggests to me that you'd be eligible, so there's that.

 

[Flintstone65]

I used to used to be an avid DE user and then got away from it. Been using my DEs for the past month or so. Using an Edwin Jagger DE89 and Merkur 34C that I bought over 10 years ago and neither of them are cutting it for me in terms of sharpness. That's why I'm interested in more aggressive DEs and SEs. Not really thinking about straights due to the maintenece.

Thanks for your reply bwt. Reminds me that the the beauty of wet shaving is not just in the products but total strangers willing to help others out.

So I started with a Merkur 34C not so very long ago, and I didn't love it, and I ended up going down a vintage DE and Slant razor rabbit hole. It was fun, and I don't regret doing it, but it took me too long to discover the world of SE razors. The Schick Injector blades (branded Schick but produced in China, often called "Chicks") are available on Amazon, and I can even buy them at my mom-and-pop drug store in my very tiny town. Those blades will work in vintage and modern razors and I easily get more than 10 shaves from each blade. As for Gem blades, many of buy them from the UK (even though I'm in the US) -- the place is called Connaught Shaving and they offer very reasonable shipping fees, plus more than competitive prices on the blades. I'm sure there are more 'local' type sources, but I've purchased hundreds of those blades and I get around 10 to 15 shaves per blade, so I do really need another source.

I will say that if you're into the "straight razor shaving experience", but not really into the honing blades thing, then the Weck Sextoblade and hair shaper razors may be a good fit. The blades are disposable, but last a good long time, there's no stropping, but the Weck and most hair shapers have plastic (or even metal) scales and they look and shave very much like a straight razor (or so I am told).

Here are a couple of places to "browse" while you consider the SE options:
Micromatic Monday / GEMonday : a long running thread where a bunch of us get together on Monday's (or even other days) and shave with a Gem, Ever-Ready, Star or Treet razor -- these are all made in the US (although some models were made in the UK), and use modern Gem blades. GEM Micromatics are TTO razors that were produced from in the 30's and 40's (perhaps a little earlier and a little later, IIRC). You may want to read the thread backwards (newest to oldest postings).

Another is a series on Injectors: Lovers of Schick Razors.

Please feel free to reach out with any questions....and welcome to B&B!!!

 

[back_to_shaving]

Thanks. I'm not sure if I am in to the straight razor experience. I just want something that shaves as close as possible. My hands are probably way too fidgety to use a straight razor style razor unfortunately. Its why I went to college instead of becoming an egamer. Kidding.

Also where do you recommend buying a vintage GEM or Schick? The coronavirus thing has got be a bit worried about buying off eBay and I'm not sure what I would be looking for exactly in the first place.

 

[Flintstone65]

Hmmm, I ordinarily suggest starting with the BST, but you're a tad new and I don't think you'll be eligible to buy from there for a little while yet. Also vintage SE razors don't appear as often on the BST as say vintage DE. So that leaves the 'Bay. I'm concerned about C-19 (and I'm a bit of a germaphobe even in the best of times), but dish soap and hot water, plus a soak in isopropyl alcohol and even a hit of Scrubbing Bubbles (the one without the bleach) will pretty much take anything and everything down. And I handle all mail and packages with gloves and all my packages go through a quarantine period....yeah, I'm taking this pretty seriously. There are several threads talking about cleaning and sanitizing razors, and I've certainly learned a lot there. I've sorted of adopted multiples of them, so I'm a belt-and-suspenders guy when it comes to disinfecting.

But I'd recommend taking it a bit slow, and do some looking at the threads on the various razors. Once you find one that looks interesting, then head to eBay and do a search on it. You'll typically see a HUGE variance in pricing, but I typically look at the price combined with the seller's ratings, and whether they sell a lot of razors, or just antiques in general. Everybody's got their formula, but my point would be to just browse and see what's out there. I also like using eBay's "sold listings" filter so I can see what stuff has actually sold for. And you can search the BST for a specific razor and get a sense of what they sold for on the forum.

Speaking of searching, I sometimes have better luck when I'm looking for specific razor reviews by using google but focusing it on badgerandblade. so I will google the following: gem featherweight :badgerandblade

If you try that, you'll see a bunch of Gem Featherweight threads come up with badgerandblade links. This can sometimes be easier than trying to do that search within B&B.

Lastly (although let's be honest, it's never "lastly" when I'm at the keyboard )-- my first Gem-Style SE was a Micromatic Open Comb (MMOC). I like Open Combs and even though this one has a rep for being super aggressive, I figured I'd give it a try. I handled it with care, but from my first shave to my most recent one, it has been an awesome razor. My point is that you can look a the Micromatic Open Comb (MMOC), the Micromatic Clog-Pruf or the Micromatic Flying Wing (aka Bullet Tip), and any of those will give you a great shave. So will the ubiquitous Gem 1912 -- that's the patent date, but the head has been produced from the late teens to the early 50's. I guess my bottom line point is that it will be hard to go wrong with a Gem (as you'll see people say over and over again in various threads). Many of us have been chasing, acquiring and testing the various models, and speaking for myself, I can't say that there is a huge difference between them. They have different personality quirks that may require tweaks in my technique, but I still get a very close and nice shave from them all.

As to Schick injectors, if I were only a shaver and not a collector, I'd probably pick one of my Schicks and call it a day. They're easy to load, they have a small head that's very maneuverable around my prominent nose and jaggy/craggy face, and I find them both efficient and smooth. I like history, so I've got the first model produced (the Type A from back in the late 20's) all the way up to the Schick type N which was produced in the 80's. The types aren't a Schick/Eversharp thing, they were created by a collector to differentiate the various models. Because there are so many models, it can be harder to wade through them and find the ones you like. I paid very little for my first Schick E3 and it shaved me closer than I had ever been shaved -- which means I was dolphin-smooth but I had a raging case of irritation from how close the razor got (and I went against the grain). The E-Series are typically considered VERY efficient, but I can get a nice shave from all of my Schicks....admittedly it may take an extra pass with some versus others. The Schick Adjustable (Type M) tends to be a touch pricey (relative to other Schick models), but if I needed the "everything razor" this would be it. When I want it to be VERY efficient, I can crank it up -- when I need to shave every day for work, or have an extra shave during the day for a special meeting, I can make it mild with the setting and my face thanks me.

Okay, this is beyond TLDR territory....even for me. Take your time, look around, and when you're ready to give something a try, I can pretty much guarantee you'll be able to do it for much less than your EJ or Merkur.

 

[back_to_shaving]

Thanks so much for all your help. Its a lot to soak in but super useful.

 

[Flintstone65]

Thanks so much for all your help. Its a lot to soak in but super useful.

You're very welcome. One last (probably) thread that might be helpful: Gem Razor Models.

 

[Old Hippie]

I know for a fact that a Gem 1912 and a very nice Clog-Pruf will be going up on the BST within a week or so.

I'm getting ready to thin the herd a little. I have several 1912s, all of them in pretty decent condition. The Clog-Pruf may in fact be unused -- at least it feels like it, and it has the "paper blade" insert still.

I'm also going to put up some slants and a couple of DEs. Stuff that I've used and decided not to keep, all well cleaned.

O.H.

 

[doug1066]

Well, I started shaving with a Schick L1, I inherited my Father’s Schick J1 and I acquired a Schick J3 “Golden 500”. I also own three GEMs, a 1912, a Pushbutton and I just received a G Bar in the mail today. I also own several DEs.

The SE blades seem to last longer for me. Since I learned with an Injector, I can get a really good shave with one in under five minutes. For me, the SE razors are just part of the tools I use. They can be found for much less than a vintage DE although the blades are more expensive. The blades last at least twice as long, so that really isn’t a factor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[back_to_shaving]

I know for a fact that a Gem 1912 and a very nice Clog-Pruf will be going up on the BST within a week or so.

I'm getting ready to thin the herd a little. I have several 1912s, all of them in pretty decent condition. The Clog-Pruf may in fact be unused -- at least it feels like it, and it has the "paper blade" insert still.

I'm also going to put up some slants and a couple of DEs. Stuff that I've used and decided not to keep, all well cleaned.

O.H.

Not sure I have the ability to buy from BST but otherwise I'd be interested in the Gem 1912. Is it known as a stubble buster?

 

[Zoost]

I know for a fact that a Gem 1912 and a very nice Clog-Pruf will be going up on the BST within a week or so.

I'm getting ready to thin the herd a little. I have several 1912s, all of them in pretty decent condition. The Clog-Pruf may in fact be unused -- at least it feels like it, and it has the "paper blade" insert still.

I'm also going to put up some slants and a couple of DEs. Stuff that I've used and decided not to keep, all well cleaned.

O.H.

Ill be certainly interested in that Clog Pruf!

 

[camoloc]

G bar and the Featherweight would both be entry level friendly in think. SE is a different world compared to DE.

dont know enough yet about SR's to make a comparison but am exploring that right now.

good luck......a lot of useful info from these guys!!!!!

camo

 

[back_to_shaving]

I think I've settled on a GEM 1912 as the first SE I want. (I think that should be aggressive enough for a BBS that I've never gotten with the Edwin Jagger or Merkur) Then I want a Schick Injector type E for something super aggressive. I'm not seeing anything on the BST though.

 

[Whiterook]

Lots of both on the auction site and Etsy.

 

[Ron R]

Lots of excellent advice on SE razors so I will give you a simple chart on the blades for your future SE razor. I like Gem Personna SS PTFE blades and for injectors Schick & Personna make good blades. With my medium growth beard I usually get 10 shaves per blade, $.02-.03 cents per shave with Gem blades and $.05-14 cents a shave with injectors.

Have some great shaves!